Thib Results: Poliquin's Insulin Protocol

[quote]curranni wrote:
fathergll wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
fathergll wrote:
Hey Christian…also what does Ultra HCL do? It says digestive support function…in the grand scheme of things why do you take it with the insulin protocol?

HCL is basically digestive acids. It improves digestion and absorption of the nutrients (and supplements) you ingest. It’s not for insulin sensitivity per se, only to improve the efficacy of the digestive system. After all, what is important is not the amount of food you eat, but the amount of food you absorb!

Very cool. Thanks

I just received some Fenuplex in the mail 2 days ago. I got 2 60 count bottles…only thing left in stock. It says to take it before meals.My question is how long should you wait to start eating once you take the pills?

everyone i know takes fenuplex during meals.
i might be wrong though.
like my bottle of insulinomics says between meals. but you take it at meals to the best of my knowledge

[/quote]

Ok cool. I was just taking it like 10 mins before my meals but I guess it makes no difference. I wondering why it said before.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
superscience wrote:
Why does this not convince me, I’m very sceptical of this biosignature but also very intrigued. Why hasn’t biosignature in the journals?

Plus I feel that a lot of peoples rely on scientific literature too much. YES science is important. YES I use studies to further my concepts and methods. BUT when it comes to performance training and high level body composition changes scientific literature is often 5-10 years behind the top coaches.

For example until the mid 80s, it was the position of the American Medical Association (established via a review of scientific studies) that steroids and testosterone DID NOT increase muscle mass and strength. Meanwhile bodybuilders and powerlifters were getting huge and strong using this ineffective products :)[/quote]

Funny that’s what the Russians were always telling me. Coaches(and for that matter practicioners) are way ahead of scientests in almost any country.
Brandon Green

Thib, did you have to modify your diet specifically for this outside of the recommended supplements?

I’ve more or less figured out what ‘works’ for me diet-wise and was wondering whether these supplement additions would help to maximize my results. Like you, my subscapula measurements are off the charts (relative to everything else).

Hello CT, didnt want to bother your email over this;

If one was to follow the schedule for the 6 weeks would it be :

2 bottles of fenuplex
3 of insulinomics
1 of HCL
And LOTS of fish oil.

Would you add DIM, as per his reccomendations or leave it for another hormone fixing day.

Thanking you.

CT -

Unless I missed it, the 12-site measurement doesn’t account for lower back fat stores. I seem to hold my most stubborn fat there. Do you get enough of a back fat reading from the subscap measurement? Is there a general “meaning” in the protocol for lower back fat, or is it just another sign of insulin resistance?

[quote]HG Thrower wrote:
CT -

Unless I missed it, the 12-site measurement doesn’t account for lower back fat stores. I seem to hold my most stubborn fat there. Do you get enough of a back fat reading from the subscap measurement? Is there a general “meaning” in the protocol for lower back fat, or is it just another sign of insulin resistance? [/quote]

i wondered that myself.

[quote]Corkonian wrote:
Hello CT, didnt want to bother your email over this;

If one was to follow the schedule for the 6 weeks would it be :

2 bottles of fenuplex
3 of insulinomics
1 of HCL
And LOTS of fish oil.

Would you add DIM, as per his reccomendations or leave it for another hormone fixing day.

Thanking you.[/quote]

The DIM is for another purpose: it improves estrogen metabolism, it is not related to the above protocol.

Hey CT
any updates on your progress?
also is there any type of training that best suits insulin modulation?

[quote]RobNZ wrote:
Hey CT
any updates on your progress?
also is there any type of training that best suits insulin modulation?[/quote]

Hypertrophy strength training improves insulin resistance, I believe.

Coach,

Glycine is usually recommended for the cortisol protocol and as a growth hormone modulator; however, I have not seen it recommended in the biosig insulin protocol. Have you added the glycine as per a recommendation by Charles or one of his associates?

Also, if I remember correctly, at one point you were taking a serving of primal greens each day. Any reason for dropping this out of your protocol?

Does this protocol have any longer-term impact on insulin sensitivity? Or does it just improve it while utilizing it? I’m thinking the latter, yes?

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Does this protocol have any longer-term impact on insulin sensitivity? Or does it just improve it while utilizing it? I’m thinking the latter, yes?[/quote]

Normally it should help in the long run too. It helps your body get back into proper balance. Once balance is reastablished it is easier to maintain. You may need to redo the protocol on and off though.

[quote]TR14 wrote:
Glycine is usually recommended for the cortisol protocol and as a growth hormone modulator; however, I have not seen it recommended in the biosig insulin protocol. Have you added the glycine as per a recommendation by Charles or one of his associates?

Also, if I remember correctly, at one point you were taking a serving of primal greens each day. Any reason for dropping this out of your protocol?[/quote]

Charles uses glycine. But it is not part of the insulin protocol, as you mentioned it’s biggest impact is on cortisol.

Cortisol modulation is something that almost everybody who trains hard and live in the modern world could benefit from.

We tend to all have greatly screwed up cortisol cycles. Normally, cortisol needs to be high in the morning (to help with energy mobilization) and low at night (to favor recovery and restfull sleep). However because most peoples are stressed out when they get home and don’t do anything to unwind, then go to sleep at impossible hours, their cortisol levels stay elevated at night.

This obviously make it harder to sleep and recover. And because the adrenals work overtime to pump all that cortisol into your body, cortisol is low in the morning. When that happens you are tired when you wake-up and have no energy even if you slept 8-10 hours. This is the best sign of a screwed up cortisol cycle, well that and abdominal fat.

And the next step, if this messed up cycle is maintained, is adrenal burnout. Not good!

Thib, thanks for sharing this information. I hope to one day be able to get the same test myself so that a similar protocol can be developed for me and whatever issues I may have.

One question for Thib or anyone who knows, what are some solid indicators to know if you should supplement with HCL or not? Is there a test a doctor can do and if so, what is this test called?

As for everyone else trying to cookie cut Thibs protocol, shouldn’t you guys be sure your issues match his before going and spending money on something you may or may not need? If its in your budget (I know, I know) go get a biosignature done!

[quote]Mr.Gone wrote:
Thib, thanks for sharing this information. I hope to one day be able to get the same test myself so that a similar protocol can be developed for me and whatever issues I may have.

One question for Thib or anyone who knows, what are some solid indicators to know if you should supplement with HCL or not? Is there a test a doctor can do and if so, what is this test called?

As for everyone else trying to cookie cut Thibs protocol, shouldn’t you guys be sure your issues match his before going and spending money on something you may or may not need? If its in your budget (I know, I know) go get a biosignature done![/quote]

Straight from the Big Dog himself!

HCl: You Are What You Assimilate!

Q: Besides zinc and magnesium, what other deficiencies do those of us seeking muscle and performance need to worry about?

A: The most common one, which actually causes zinc and magnesium deficiency, is hydrochloric acid (HCl) deficiency.

Back when I was an undergrad many moons ago, they used to tell us that you lose about 1% stomach acid per year after the age of 40. Well, that’s not true anymore because our high stress levels these days decrease HCl. We did a study at our Chicago facility where we gave 160 clients an HCl test. Only two people passed it with a medium score; 158 had a horrendous score.

If there’s insufficient hydrochloric acid, proteins will pass into the intestine and putrefy instead of being digested. Carbohydrates will also be left to ferment without adequate digestive enzymes from the pancreas. Fat digestion is also dependent on the acid’s influence on the pancreas to secrete lipase and the gall bladder to secrete bile. Poor digestion of these macronutrients means poor absorption of our basic energy sources.

Over the last four years, I’ve been amazed how a correction in HCl deficiency has led to not only dramatic improvements in physique and strength, but also improvements in a variety of health parameters. Interestingly enough, in strength-trained individuals those improvements are often associated with gains of 15 to 18 pounds of lean body mass within two months! Why? They are now absorbing proteins and minerals.

Here are a few of the symptoms of low stomach acid:

belching or gas within one hour of a meal
bloating shortly after eating
bad breath
loss of taste for meat
nausea after taking supplements
brittle fingernails
undigested food in stool
foul-smelling stools
stomach pain
desire to skip meals
estrogen buildup
acne rosacea
depression

In the US, many experts estimate the deficiency to be in the range of 40 to 50%. Some gastroenterologists are now advancing that it is today’s most under-diagnosed ailment.

There are a variety of medical tests you can get, but here’s a simple test you can do at home (but I suggest you talk to a physician qualified in nutritional medicine before you try it). It requires a bottle of Betaine HCl, at 200 mg potency per capsule. Here’s how it’s performed:

Step 1: Have a high-protein solid meal (no shakes). Let’s say for illustration purposes a 12-ounce steak and vegetables.

Step 2: Eat half the protein, roughly 6 ounces of the steak.

Step 3: Swallow a 200mg capsule of HCl.

Step 4: Eat the other half of the steak and the vegetables.

Step 5: Wait 15 minutes.

Step 6: If your stomach acid is normal, you’ll feel like you just drank a hot cup of tea or feel a burn. If you feel nothing, you need HCl as a supplement.

So what do you do next? At every meal repeat steps 1 to 6, upping the dose one capsule per meal until you feel the burning sensation. So if it takes five meals to get a burning sensation, you need on average four capsules per meal. If you get to seven capsules and you have no burning, stop the test �?? you’re achloridic, meaning you have almost no stomach acid!

At our Phoenix center alone we’ve been doing over 250 tests a year for the last four years, and in that time I’ve never seen one person not need at least one capsule; the average person tested could feel it after five capsules. You’re getting better when you start feeling a burn at your initial determined dosage. For example, if you found that five capsules was your initial need, you may find that three days later it starts to burn, so then you’d cut back to four capsules with a typical high-protein solid meal, and so on.

Most people achieve normal levels within eight weeks even when they start at seven capsules, but some individuals take as much as 18 months. I have two clients who need two caps a day permanently. Why? Because neither one will ever escape their stress levels (one of them is a real estate mogul and the other is a highly accomplished author).

Make sure that your HCl product also contains the probiotic pepsin and the digestive enzymes papain and pancreatin, as they have a synergistic effect with HCl therapy. (You can acquire my version of this product by contacting Judith@CharlesPoliquin.com.)

In addition to the above HCl protocols, here are a few other suggestions to normalize your stomach acid levels. First, avoid carbonated drinks.

Second, avoid all-you-can-eat buffets, as they’re America’s leading source of food-borne pathogens. Finally, there are numerous herbs that can contribute to raising HCl, such as gentian, peppermint, and ginger, but be aware that very few controlled studies exist on this topic.

I believe this is so important that my clients aren’t given a supplement program until they get an HCl test. Remember, not only are you what you eat, you are what you assimilate!

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
TR14 wrote:
Glycine is usually recommended for the cortisol protocol and as a growth hormone modulator; however, I have not seen it recommended in the biosig insulin protocol. Have you added the glycine as per a recommendation by Charles or one of his associates?

Also, if I remember correctly, at one point you were taking a serving of primal greens each day. Any reason for dropping this out of your protocol?

Charles uses glycine. But it is not part of the insulin protocol, as you mentioned it’s biggest impact is on cortisol.

Cortisol modulation is something that almost everybody who trains hard and live in the modern world could benefit from.

We tend to all have greatly screwed up cortisol cycles. Normally, cortisol needs to be high in the morning (to help with energy mobilization) and low at night (to favor recovery and restfull sleep). However because most peoples are stressed out when they get home and don’t do anything to unwind, then go to sleep at impossible hours, their cortisol levels stay elevated at night.

This obviously make it harder to sleep and recover. And because the adrenals work overtime to pump all that cortisol into your body, cortisol is low in the morning. When that happens you are tired when you wake-up and have no energy even if you slept 8-10 hours. This is the best sign of a screwed up cortisol cycle, well that and abdominal fat.

And the next step, if this messed up cycle is maintained, is adrenal burnout. Not good!
[/quote]

Thank you for the prompt reply, sir.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Does this protocol have any longer-term impact on insulin sensitivity? Or does it just improve it while utilizing it? I’m thinking the latter, yes?

Normally it should help in the long run too. It helps your body get back into proper balance. Once balance is reastablished it is easier to maintain. You may need to redo the protocol on and off though.[/quote]

Sounds good. Thanks.

Hey Thib,

As I mentioned, I’m getting the biosignature analysis done this Friday (16th). I’m guessing that it will find that (among other things) high cortisol is an issue for me, because lower ab fat is almost impossible for me to really get rid of, even when low-carb dieting for weeks and weeks and weeks, and even when getting pretty darn lean overall.

Also, I’ve NEVER been a morning person, yet for the past 10+ years I’ve had a job that requires me to get up at 6:00 or 6:30 am (HELL for me), usually after only 6 to 7 hours of sleep (especially if I worked out the night before), which makes me rely on a good stiff cup of morning coffee to get moving.

I truly love my morning coffee! And I often have one again in the afternoon, around 2:00 or 3:00 pm. Even on Saturdays and Sundays, when I do get 9-ish hours of sleep I usually feel like ass first thing in the morning.

If my cortisol is indeed indicated as being too high as I suspect, is cutting out the coffee likely to be prescribed? Even the morning cup? Doesn’t coffee up one’s cortisol, generally speaking?

(Please tell me no! But if so I’ll do what I’ve gotta’ do).

Thanks in advance.

Thib, as usual you are all over it. Thanks a million for posting that information. I had been looking through the old “Question of Strength” articles in between work today trying to dig it up. I appreciate you taking the time to dig it up and post here. Now for the test . . . .

Good luck with meeting all your goals and congrats on tying the knot! Best wishes.

What does high cheek and chin measurements indicate? I had both hyper and hypothyroidism in high school, and ended up gaining 35 pounds. I’ve lost the weight (9%bf), but I still have my fat cheeks. Is there anything I can do?

[quote]rkelly281 wrote:
What does high cheek and chin measurements indicate? I had both hyper and hypothyroidism in high school, and ended up gaining 35 pounds. I’ve lost the weight (9%bf), but I still have my fat cheeks. Is there anything I can do?[/quote]

There are actually the only two that do not correlate with a particular hormone. Often time high cheek measurements when the body is lean is due to water retention which could be caused by numerous things.