There's a Limit to How Big You Can Get

Training Bodybuilding
61

[quote]MuscleandBrawn wrote:
I have been training for 20 years. I take my bodyfat levels with a caliper at least every month. My lean muscle mass is around 178-79 pounds…has been for 10 years. Casey Butt’s formula states I “Could” hit 181 pounds lean muscle.

I have hit my natural limit. I train my backside off, and can’t gain any more muscle. For someone to say that I could exceed my base muscle mass by at least another 10 pounds…they have no clue what they’re talking about. Have them come back in ten years.

You can gain a ton of muscle the first two years of training naturally, but after that you are scratching for ounces.

And if you think I’m full of crap, check my avatar. I’m not exactly a small fry.[/quote]

You aren’t exactly genetically gifted either which is why most of you responding need to take a class in genetics and learn what a Bell Curve is.

I have no intention of arguing with any of you, especially since if any pictures are posted of people claiming to be natural with extreme levels of muscle mass, the assumption will be that they aren’t if they pass what you want to believe so what does it matter?

In fact, if people look at you and think, “that guys is natural”, then you probably either suck in terms of genetics or your progress in bodybuilding.

If people in this day and age don’t think you are on something, are you really doing it right?

I will throw one name out there just to see the response. My guess is, you all will prove me right.

Michael Lockett

62

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Is it just me or is someone making a whole bunch of new accounts here just to prove his own rather moronic point?

[/quote]

You guessed it. Who the hell gets this involved in a discussion that doesn’t even concern them personally with only 1 post?

63

[quote]MuscleandBrawn wrote:
I have been training for 20 years. I take my bodyfat levels with a caliper at least every month. My lean muscle mass is around 178-79 pounds…has been for 10 years. Casey Butt’s formula states I “Could” hit 181 pounds lean muscle.

I have hit my natural limit. I train my backside off, and can’t gain any more muscle. For someone to say that I could exceed my base muscle mass by at least another 10 pounds…they have no clue what they’re talking about. Have them come back in ten years.

You can gain a ton of muscle the first two years of training naturally, but after that you are scratching for ounces.

And if you think I’m full of crap, check my avatar. I’m not exactly a small fry.[/quote]

you are if thats what you look like after 20 years of training, shrimp

64

[quote]MuscleandBrawn wrote:
I have been training for 20 years. I take my bodyfat levels with a caliper at least every month. My lean muscle mass is around 178-79 pounds…has been for 10 years. Casey Butt’s formula states I “Could” hit 181 pounds lean muscle.

I have hit my natural limit. I train my backside off, and can’t gain any more muscle. For someone to say that I could exceed my base muscle mass by at least another 10 pounds…they have no clue what they’re talking about. Have them come back in ten years.

You can gain a ton of muscle the first two years of training naturally, but after that you are scratching for ounces.

And if you think I’m full of crap, check my avatar. I’m not exactly a small fry.[/quote]

“You can gain a ton of muscle the first two years of training naturally, but after that you are scratching for ounces.” ← that pretty much tells me that once your beginner gains stopped, you had no idea what to do to keep gaining at a decent rate.

Where are you from, the getbig forums or something? A second or third (or twentieth) forum account of Casey Butt or whatever his name was?

I’m mightily interested in what your diet, routine and strength levels look like.

65

I’m just curious why anyone you want to calculate their “limit”. Do you plan to stop training once you get to where it says you can’t get bigger? So you can create a mental weight barrier?

66

[quote]Professor X wrote:
MuscleandBrawn wrote:
I have been training for 20 years. I take my bodyfat levels with a caliper at least every month. My lean muscle mass is around 178-79 pounds…has been for 10 years. Casey Butt’s formula states I “Could” hit 181 pounds lean muscle.

I have hit my natural limit. I train my backside off, and can’t gain any more muscle. For someone to say that I could exceed my base muscle mass by at least another 10 pounds…they have no clue what they’re talking about. Have them come back in ten years.

You can gain a ton of muscle the first two years of training naturally, but after that you are scratching for ounces.

And if you think I’m full of crap, check my avatar. I’m not exactly a small fry.

You aren’t exactly genetically gifted either which is why most of you responding need to take a class in genetics and learn what a Bell Curve is.

I have no intention of arguing with any of you, especially since if any pictures are posted of people claiming to be natural with extreme levels of muscle mass, the assumption will be that they aren’t if they pass what you want to believe so what does it matter?

In fact, if people look at you and think, “that guys is natural”, then you probably either suck in terms of genetics or your progress in bodybuilding.[/quote]
Or your natural…

I assume this is saying that people who look like they use steriods didn’t and they’re really just genetic freaks. I guess nobody uses steroids, wait maybe the people who look natural use them… I’m so confused.

[quote]
If people in this day and age don’t think you are on something, are you really doing it right?

I will throw one name out there just to see the response. My guess is, you all will prove me right.

Michael Lockett[/quote]

Is this another guy who says he doesn’t use steriods? hmmmm reminds me of Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Jose Conseco, Manny Ramirez, or maybe all of the Belgium Bodybuilding Competitors that walked out. Wait Barry Bonds didn’t fail a test he must not have used…

I don’t think anybody successfull has ever ADMITTED to steriods. So either steriods doesn’t exist or nobody uses it until they get caught.

67

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I’m just curious why anyone you want to calculate their “limit”. Do you plan to stop training once you get to where it says you can’t get bigger? So you can create a mental weight barrier?[/quote]

Knowing your genetic limits will spare you pointless years of chasing gains impossible for your frame and muscle-belly lengths. If your frame can carry a natural max of a 16" arm, it’s only a fool who will continue seeking a 17" instead of focusing on maintenance. Maintenance, by the way, requires as much effort as gaining – you don’t continue training intensely and eating properly, you’ll lose what you’ve gained.

Knowing your limits gives you a realistic purpose and goals for long-term training.

68

[quote]proveyourclaims wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
I’m just curious why anyone you want to calculate their “limit”. Do you plan to stop training once you get to where it says you can’t get bigger? So you can create a mental weight barrier?

Knowing your genetic limits will spare you pointless years of chasing gains impossible for your frame and muscle-belly lengths. If your frame can carry a natural max of a 16" arm, it’s only a fool who will continue seeking a 17" instead of focusing on maintenance. Knowing your limits gives you a realistic purpose for long-term training. [/quote]

LOL

I suggest you do the same with IQ and social status. We don’t want anyone believing they can accomplish any more than what a piece of paper says they can, huh?

69

[quote]proveyourclaims wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
I’m just curious why anyone you want to calculate their “limit”. Do you plan to stop training once you get to where it says you can’t get bigger? So you can create a mental weight barrier?

Knowing your genetic limits will spare you pointless years of chasing gains impossible for your frame and muscle-belly lengths. If your frame can carry a natural max of a 16" arm, it’s only a fool who will continue seeking a 17" instead of focusing on maintenance. Knowing your limits gives you a realistic purpose for long-term training. [/quote]

Even if it really is a good idea to switch your training and goals based on “genetic max”. wouldn’t you just gain until you stop, then maintain, rather than going based on what some online calculator says?

70

[quote]Professor X wrote:
proveyourclaims wrote:

LOL

I suggest you do the same with IQ and social status. We don’t want anyone believing they can accomplish any more than what a piece of paper says they can, huh?[/quote]

Even IQ and social strata have limits. What – a 30" arm? and a 1,200 lb bench press at 185lb bodyweight? Why not – why limit yourself? You don’t have 30" arms and can’t bench 1,200? You didn’t believe hard enough? Positive attitude is required for any success – but no one’s ever flown to the moon unaided, no matter how positive they’ve been that they would. Positive attitude and grit need to be balanced with reality.

71

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
proveyourclaims wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
I’m just curious why anyone you want to calculate their “limit”. Do you plan to stop training once you get to where it says you can’t get bigger? So you can create a mental weight barrier?

Knowing your genetic limits will spare you pointless years of chasing gains impossible for your frame and muscle-belly lengths. If your frame can carry a natural max of a 16" arm, it’s only a fool who will continue seeking a 17" instead of focusing on maintenance. Knowing your limits gives you a realistic purpose for long-term training.

Even if it really is a good idea to switch your training and goals based on “genetic max”. wouldn’t you just gain until you stop, then maintain, rather than going based on what some online calculator says?[/quote]

A calculator offers a guide for when you have hit those max’s – otherwise, not knowing what your max is, how would you accurately know when to switch to maintain?

72

[quote]proveyourclaims wrote:
Professor X wrote:
proveyourclaims wrote:

LOL

I suggest you do the same with IQ and social status. We don’t want anyone believing they can accomplish any more than what a piece of paper says they can, huh?

Even IQ and social strata have limits. What – a 30" arm? and a 1,200 lb bench press at 185lb bodyweight? Why not – why limit yourself? You don’t have 30" arms and can’t bench 1,200? You didn’t believe hard enough?[/quote]

according to a max bench calculator using 275, I should only bench 360. I however have benched 360 for 3 reps. but I shouldn’t progress any more, because the calculator says I can’t.

You can’t be this dumb. please see the 2009 members suck thread. too many trolls.

73

[quote]proveyourclaims wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
proveyourclaims wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
I’m just curious why anyone you want to calculate their “limit”. Do you plan to stop training once you get to where it says you can’t get bigger? So you can create a mental weight barrier?

Knowing your genetic limits will spare you pointless years of chasing gains impossible for your frame and muscle-belly lengths. If your frame can carry a natural max of a 16" arm, it’s only a fool who will continue seeking a 17" instead of focusing on maintenance. Knowing your limits gives you a realistic purpose for long-term training.

Even if it really is a good idea to switch your training and goals based on “genetic max”. wouldn’t you just gain until you stop, then maintain, rather than going based on what some online calculator says?

A calculator offers a guide for when you have hit those max’s – otherwise, not knowing what your max is, how would you accurately know when to switch to maintain?[/quote]

When you can’t gain anymore? isn’t that what happens when you hit a max? Like above. If you really want to know what your max bench is, increase the weight until you fail attempting 1 rep. if you want to know your max weight, gain until you can’t.

74

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Professor X wrote:

If people in this day and age don’t think you are on something, are you really doing it right?

I will throw one name out there just to see the response. My guess is, you all will prove me right.

Michael Lockett

Is this another guy who says he doesn’t use steriods? hmmmm reminds me of Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Jose Conseco, Manny Ramirez, or maybe all of the Belgium Bodybuilding Competitors that walked out. Wait Barry Bonds didn’t fail a test he must not have used…

I don’t think anybody successfull has ever ADMITTED to steriods. So either steriods doesn’t exist or nobody uses it until they get caught.

[/quote]

I said this numerous times in the other thread, but, that’s one of the problems with the whole equation. You CAN’T know without a shadow of a doubt that ANYONE who has built an impressive physique since the isolation and synthetic reproduction of testosterone occurred is completely natural.

Therefore, the only possible way of determining whether someone is “natural” or enhanced is whether they have taken and passed a drug test, which Lockett has, several times. Therefore, he is natural.

If you don’t accept this, then you can’t call anyone post synthetic testosterone natural, and the whole equation simply becomes an interesting piece of nostalgia. “Wow, it looks like all these old timers had very similar proportions and bodyweight to skeletal structure ratios. Interesting. Too bad we can’t use anyone who has built an impressive physique since 1959 to see if this ratio has anything to do with maximal bodyweight (or perhaps it has to do more with the aesthetic ideal that these individuals were gunning for) since everyone past that time frame’s natural status is suspect.”

But, there’s already a huge thread about this which has tons of arguments against the theory, counter arguments, name calling, dick waving, and all that other fun stuff. :wink:

So there’s really no reason to rehash all the same old crap.

75

[quote]proveyourclaims wrote:
A calculator offers a guide for when you have hit those max’s – otherwise, not knowing what your max is, how would you accurately know when to switch to maintain?[/quote]

If you get to the point where you work hard with properly applied knowledge, eat properly, and get sufficient rest over a period of time and THEN you still have no appreciable gains, you may come to the conclusion that you’ve approached your natural limits. But why not find out what they are for yourself instead of relying on a generic calculator that can’t possibly know your specific limitations? And I imagine that few, if any, will actually hit their natural limit if they’re relying on a calcuator to tell them what those limits are. Few will ever hit their natural limits anyway.

In fact, since it requires more effort to continue to progress as you approach your limits, why not go into “maintenance” before you ever hit them, since you’d save yourself all that time and effort? Yep, sounds like a GREAT idea to me!

76

[quote]proveyourclaims wrote:
Professor X wrote:
proveyourclaims wrote:

LOL

I suggest you do the same with IQ and social status. We don’t want anyone believing they can accomplish any more than what a piece of paper says they can, huh?

Even IQ and social strata have limits. [/quote]

How is this a response to my statement? No one with an IQ much less than 130 should try to be a doctor since I once read that is about average for those in that profession or those with an health occ. education past grad school, right?

The average engineer has an IQ of about 120-125 so no one with an IQ of 110 should expect to be one, right?

Why not apply this logic to all activities?

77

[quote]Professor X wrote:
proveyourclaims wrote:
Professor X wrote:
proveyourclaims wrote:

LOL

I suggest you do the same with IQ and social status. We don’t want anyone believing they can accomplish any more than what a piece of paper says they can, huh?

Even IQ and social strata have limits.

How is this a response to my statement? No one with an IQ much less than 130 should try to be a doctor since I once read that is about average for those in that profession or those with an health occ. education past grad school, right?

The average engineer has an IQ of about 120-125 so no one with an IQ of 110 should expect to be one, right?

Why not apply this logic to all activities?
[/quote]

I’d be more optimistic about an IQ limit for posting in forums…

78

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

according to a max bench calculator using 275, I should only bench 360. I however have benched 360 for 3 reps. but I shouldn’t progress any more, because the calculator says I can’t.

You can’t be this dumb. please see the 2009 members suck thread. too many trolls.[/quote]

Is it for calculating Maximum attainable strength in an lift, or is it for determining 1RM based on other reps and poundages? Does it say you’ll never be able to bench more than 360 for one, or is that calculator for comparisons, and says nothing about what strength max you can ultimately attain? if it’s a typical 1RM calculator, it has nothing to do with Max Strength potential.
I’m focused on a max lean mass calculator here.

79

[quote]proveyourclaims wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:

according to a max bench calculator using 275, I should only bench 360. I however have benched 360 for 3 reps. but I shouldn’t progress any more, because the calculator says I can’t.

You can’t be this dumb. please see the 2009 members suck thread. too many trolls.

Is it for calculating Maximum attainable strength in an lift, or is it for determining 1RM based on other reps and poundages? Does it say you’ll never be able to bench more than 360 for one, or is that calculator for comparisons, and says nothing about what strength max you can ultimately attain? if it’s a typical 1RM calculator, it has nothing to do with Max Strength potential.
I’m focused on a max lean mass calculator here.
[/quote]

No… it is a current 1RM calculator. Meaning it says I shouldn’t be able to do more than X amount of weight (currently), even though I can. should I wait to get my 10RM up before I attempt any more weight on a 1RM?

80

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

A calculator offers a guide for when you have hit those max’s – otherwise, not knowing what your max is, how would you accurately know when to switch to maintain?

When you can’t gain anymore? isn’t that what happens when you hit a max? Like above. If you really want to know what your max bench is, increase the weight until you fail attempting 1 rep. if you want to know your max weight, gain until you can’t. [/quote]

Without a calculator helping, how would you know whether you’ve stopped gaining merely because you’ve hit another plateau that you can break by switching gears to reignite gains, or because you reached your natural mass ceiling? You’d likely try “another” routine, and waste pointless time and effort. A calculator helps you know when that plateau is a GENETIC max, not merely another stagnant point.