As my first post on T-Nation, I would like to extend my welcome to all. I am interested in a discussion on the truth concerning muscular hypertrophy. An issue raised is why do some of the largest, most awe-inspiring physiques possessed By people we do not consider to Be the strongest lifters…
now this topic has Been Beaten to death and the question always goes unresolved and afraid to Be discussed lest some of the veterans on this site crucify anyone who even poses this idea. Lets not kid ourselves though. Why is it that gyms are crawling with some very muscular people who are extremely weak for their cross-sectional musculature
is it just me or do tons of our large Brethren in muscle try to hide their weak Bodies under the mask of so-called “Body-Building” oriented goals
Why do so many large gym rats shy away from the main lifts and head straight for the smith machine, hs machine, and leg press
is it just me or do they do this due to the fact that deep down they are self-conscious of their surprisingly low numBers.
Again I want this to remain as civil as can Be so please discuss But keep it courteous
What do you mean by weak? How muscular and how weak are these people you’re seeing? The fact that they’re not lifting lifting heavy weights whenever you see them doesn’t mean that they’re not strong. They could just be warming up or it could already be their 10 set for that same muscle group. They might pre exhuaust which would lead to them being “weaker”. Another important matter is TUT and how fast/slow they’re making their reps out to be. For example I might be able to deadlift over 500 but seldom use over 300 lbs and things like that
Some people desire to be big, and they have found that absolute strength is NOT the best route to get there. Things like tension, volume, and other factors come in to play as well.
Machines like the Hammer Strength line, leg presses, and even gasp the Smith Machine all have their uses for the goal of hypertrophy.
Also, I suspect when you are watching these people lift you are NOT seeing their true strength potential, but rather the application of other forms of overload and stress that they have found to be successful FOR GETTING BIGGER. Just because someone is curling 30’s doesnt mean they cant curl the 60’s. It means that for whatever reason, for that set, they have found that the 30’s are better suited to their goal.
And as for the question of why body builders tend to be “weak” when compared to their power lifting counterparts, its because power lifting is largely a mechanical leverage and nervous system heavy endeavor. If you trained a body builder like a powerlifter for a few years, I bet you would have a very strong individual.
I dont understand why this has been so perplexing for people for so long. ELITE level Powerlifting and Body Building ARE different goals, so while they both use the same TOOLS, the methods are different.
Which is to say… Who gives a shit? Eat big, Lift big, Get big.
And as for the question of why body builders tend to be “weak” when compared to their power lifting counterparts, its because power lifting is largely a mechanical leverage and nervous system heavy endeavor. If you trained a body builder like a powerlifter for a few years, I bet you would have a very strong individual.
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I might add, a lot of experienced BB guys can get more done towards hypertrophy with smaller weights, and focusing on the contraction, rather than the movement.
[quote]truetomuscle wrote:
Why is it that gyms are crawling with some very muscular people who are extremely weak for their cross-sectional musculature [/quote]
Says who? Is there some sort of pamphlet available that lists how much weight someone should be able to lift at a certain bodyweight?
Started off as a fairly intelligent original post, and then showed absolutely no understanding of bodybuilding, bodybuilders, powerlifters, hypertrophy training,… I dunno,… what else… anything we usually discuss on here.
I would have been willing to jump into a so called ‘civil’ discussion, but there were some seriously boneheaded comments made. Enjoy the thread, I’m skipping this one. I don’t need to defend stupid generalizations and misunderstandings.
To me, there is no such thing as “weak” when stress to the muscles are involved. A person who doesnt care for increasing their 1 rep maximum is not weak. There are several things that can be measured as “strength”. You can bench 400lbs for a few reps, while a guy can bodyweight pull-up his body for 100 reps (which i believe some people like to title as ‘strength-endurance’)- or where a person can bench half of 400 at ridiculous explosiveness and strength in little time (what some would refer to as speed/strength) there are different types of “strength”.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Some people desire to be big, and they have found that absolute strength is NOT the best route to get there. Things like tension, volume, and other factors come in to play as well.
Machines like the Hammer Strength line, leg presses, and even gasp the Smith Machine all have their uses for the goal of hypertrophy.
Also, I suspect when you are watching these people lift you are NOT seeing their true strength potential, but rather the application of other forms of overload and stress that they have found to be successful FOR GETTING BIGGER. Just because someone is curling 30’s doesnt mean they cant curl the 60’s. It means that for whatever reason, for that set, they have found that the 30’s are better suited to their goal.
And as for the question of why body builders tend to be “weak” when compared to their power lifting counterparts, its because power lifting is largely a mechanical leverage and nervous system heavy endeavor. If you trained a body builder like a powerlifter for a few years, I bet you would have a very strong individual.
I dont understand why this has been so perplexing for people for so long. ELITE level Powerlifting and Body Building ARE different goals, so while they both use the same TOOLS, the methods are different.
Which is to say… Who gives a shit? Eat big, Lift big, Get big.[/quote]
I agree with you for the most part. It seems though, that there is a serious problem with this when this gets translated into training advice for someone looking to get to a level considered large. When people see a Behemoth struggling with forty pound weights…think kai greene saying he will never Be a weightlifter… confusion results. People on this site say to imitate the Best But as soon as that is taken literally they claim that were missing the point. Then misguided advice is given such as “Who gives a shit? Eat big, Lift big, Get big” well…eat big…whats big…lift big…whats big…get big…whats big. Whenever i come across large individuals who struggle to lift two twenty five on a smith chest press i cannot help but be suspicious
[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
A Treatise on Internet Trolling: Why do people waste time writing obvious troll posts?[/quote]
Couldn’t have worded it better.
Seems like if a troll says ‘please, respectful discussion only’, it passes under the radar.
BBB[/quote]
This is annoying. Is it even possible to have a first post on this forum without being labeled a troll? I’m sorry I’m not part of the club yet for I have failed to attain approval from the T-Nation in-crowd. How many posts do I have to average a day to attain membership. my guess is that I have not uploaded pictures and an autobiography so my posts are discarded. Tell me BBB how long until my initiation…the troll scare on this forum is half the time just paranoia. Was there not a time when even Professor x was called a “troll.”
Maybe you should get suspicious of WHY it is that they appear to be “struggling” with 225.[/quote]
That is exactly what this forum is supposed to concern itself with. I am asking why. I am not sure why. I don’t want to get into a sarcoplasmic/myofibrillar functional argument but do you think Poliquin is on to something when he says hypertrophy is the body being lazy…
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Started off as a fairly intelligent original post, and then showed absolutely no understanding of bodybuilding, bodybuilders, powerlifters, hypertrophy training,… I dunno,… what else… anything we usually discuss on here.
I would have been willing to jump into a so called ‘civil’ discussion, but there were some seriously boneheaded comments made. Enjoy the thread, I’m skipping this one. I don’t need to defend stupid generalizations and misunderstandings.
S[/quote]
If I don’t understand then explain what I don’t understand. Is there really a point in saying this type of thing if you are not going to say what exactly I said was wrong. You are a competitive natty, you know better than anyone else that there is confusion in this area ESPECIALLY in terms of training as a natty. You also know that although the same principles are followed from assisted and natty competitors, confusion arises when assisted trainees claim that what works in their case will still hold true in the case of the natty. In my opinion, if i see a very large person whos strength does not match their size, I assume assistance.
[quote]truetomuscle wrote:
Why is it that gyms are crawling with some very muscular people who are extremely weak for their cross-sectional musculature [/quote]
Says who? Is there some sort of pamphlet available that lists how much weight someone should be able to lift at a certain bodyweight?[/quote]
not one person can say what strong or weak for a given weight is, but as the saying goes, I know it when I see it. If there was a pamphlet available concerning this type of thing you would not care unless it said what you wanted it to say. Then you would site it as something of authority.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Started off as a fairly intelligent original post, and then showed absolutely no understanding of bodybuilding, bodybuilders, powerlifters, hypertrophy training,… I dunno,… what else… anything we usually discuss on here.
I would have been willing to jump into a so called ‘civil’ discussion, but there were some seriously boneheaded comments made. Enjoy the thread, I’m skipping this one. I don’t need to defend stupid generalizations and misunderstandings.
S[/quote]
Look you also know as a natty that strength is extremely important. It is a secure way to insure you are retaining muscle during a diet.