[quote]Professor X wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
There are plenty of people who wouldn’t know what someone who works out looks like if they were hit over the head with it. On this very site (and this is going back 2-3 years or more now) there was a thread where pictures of some pretty big friggin guys were posted and teh general consensus was “lulz what fatasses.” Now granted, they were all (i think) powerlifters and strongmen, not bodybuilders, but still, these were guys who had worked very hard for a very long time, and yet there were plenty of people who apparently couldnt tell. These people were not exactly the cognoscenti of the lifting world, but they were not far off from the average guy on the street either.
What does any of that have to do with what was stated? Who cares that people who aren’t serious about lifting can’t tell who is built and who isn’t? Since when do we judge ourselves by the standards of people who are one step removed from being completely sedentary? Most of the people you just described will be looking exactly the same 5 years from now as they do now or worse.
Most people who lift regularly can tell the difference between someone who is out of shape and someone who has built a shit load of muscle. This has nothing to do with what old grandmothers think about muscles.[/quote]
It was in reference to you saying earlier that if no one can tell by looking at you that you’ve been lifting for however long, you’re not a bodybuilder. I just wanted to point out that some people can look at those who lift and still not know. If you want to restrict it to say that if nobody WHO LIFTS can tell that you lift, that’s fine, but I still think you have a higher estimation of peoples powers of perception than I do.
[quote]So what about Marc Bartley. He trained for his show in august of 08 for almost a year. was he not a bodybuilder until mid-may 08? what was he before then? what changed between the beginning of may and memorial day other than a handful of lbs of fat, (if that much)? What about Dave Tate? Hasnt done a bodybuilding show for probably almost 20 years, but for half the year he gets into teh single digit bodyfat and half the year he’s not. So he’s a bodybuilder Jan-July but not Aug-dec? what is he from aug-dec? [EDIT to add:] and when you write “ready to compete in 3 short months” … compete at what level? good enough not to get laughed off the stage? or to take top 3? does it matter how deep the field is? are we talking local level or qualifier?[/EDIT]
What the hell are you talking about? You don’t think Dave Tate qualified as a bodybuilder? He competed in powerlifting but CLEARLY worked on building a shit load of muscle and all of his training wasn’t ONLY for powerlifting. His approach wasn’t much different than mine as far as bulking up yet you think he would run screaming if someone called him a bodybuilder? You don’t think he is one simply because he is also a powerlifter? How does that make sense to you? [/quote]
No I dont think Dave qualified as a bodybuilder. Why do you assume that I think Dave would run screaming if someone called him a bodybuilder? I dont think that, but when did this become about an individuals perception, whether he wants to be called a bodybuilder or not?
Also for the record, I would not consider dave a powerlifter. He hasnt done a meet in I believe 4 years, and has said that he has retired. I would consider him to be a guy who trains with his own goals in mind, and there’s nothing wrong with that at all. (this does bring up the interesting point of how OFTEN one would have to compete to be considered a bodybuilder or a powerlifter, but that’s besides the point of this discussion)
[quote]You are making this complicated for no reason. Are you saying you can’t tell who has built a shit load of muscle and who hasn’t by looking at them? This is that hard for you?
What does what you are writing have to do with what was written previously? [/quote]
I dont think I’m making it complicated at all. What part of this is complicated? No, I’m not saying I can’t tell who has built a ton of muscle and who hasnt. It’s not hard for me. I believe I’ve elucidated on my points above, so that what I’m writing now is pretty clearly connected to what was written previously.
[quote] If you have been lifting for several years and no one can even tell, you are NOT a bodybuilder. You are just some guy who wasted years in the gym who should find a new hobby. You don’t get extra credit just for TRYING.
I dont think it’s as common sense as you present it here. Because what about the grey areas, the guys whose development is impressive to some, starting to get there in the opinion of others, and who looks like he needs a lot of work in the opinion of a third group of people?
What grey areas? You are either muscular or you aren’t. You have either made progress or you haven’t. This is subjective so trying to come up with some perfect description that fits all people makes no sense in the first place. You know it when you see it and no one gives a shit about the opinion of people who don’t even lift seriously. Most of them can’t even tell you the names of the muscles they are looking at.
Anyone who has been serious about this for years can tell whether someone has built enough mass to be impressive even if they aren’t HUGE yet.
Please post pictures of people who are in such a “grey area” that no one can tell whether they have muscle or not yet they are still built. [/quote]
I would put Nate Green up as an example (and if Nate sees this I certainly hope he doesnt take offense, as I mean no disrespect). He has some muscle - not a shit ton, to be sure, but some. And I do believe that if he dieted for a short period of time he could step onstage - at a local show, mind you, not a nat’l level qualifier - and not be embarassed at all. So according to those two criteria, you would consider him a bodybuilder? He’s not what I think of when I think “bodybuilder.” This si what I’m getting at. He has built muscle, but how much is enough to qualify to suit your idea of “bodybuilder?” Some would think he’s well-built and some would not, whereas whether or not he has competed (and I dont know that he has, but I’ve never heard it, so i believe he has not) is not in dispute. So yes, while he may not look like my mental image of “bodybuilder” if he paid his membership fee, put together a routine, dieted down for however long is necessary (but definitely less than 3 months) and got out onstage at a local show, yes I would consider him a bodybuilder even if he isnt my mental “ideal.” It’s just that much more cut-and-dried
What I believe is grey is that some guys would look at his pictures and think “great, that’s what I’d like to look like” some would think “ok, he’s in decent shape, and has a few areas of improvement he could work on” and others would think “he’s a runt and looks like some little abercrombie bitch”
