The Westside Method Thread II

Training Powerlifting
601

[quote]marlboroman wrote:
I have competed , but not for a couple years now . but when I want to test , I set it up just like I would coming up to a meet . accumulation , deload , intensification , deload, transformation…and then test .

I begin practicing light competition squats during intensification phase on DE lower day , after box squats against bands and deads against bands. and by light , I mean very light…just a couple reps each time .

then the following deload , I ditch boxes and bands and hit a couple comp reps just a bit heavier than the previous block . this seems to grease the groove just right for me . then the transformation week ( DE ) I work up to about 90%…singles only . I could be out in left field , but I see no reason at all to be doing triples or doubles when your being judged/tested on a single . I’ve noticed that during this week I feel like a million bucks , and actually have to resist the urge to go for a max right then and there .

this leaves about 10 days to test day , during which I take it pretty easy . then test day .

your third method is the way I do it .[/quote]

awesome!

I have a question regarding deloads.

There are a lot of recommendations throughout the thread.
From what I can remember, it pretty much sums up to doing a few sets of 50% with DE and ME work.

I was wondering if it would be productive if I just took a week off entirely from training? instead of the deloading protocol. I remember reading in the book of methods that we can actually lose strength from taking that much time off, so that kind of freaks me out lol

I remember doing this a lot when I was doing 531 with great success, but I am not sure if this will work with the westside method.

602

I personally wouldnt take a weeks rest on a regular basis . I do it about twice a year , and I regret it twice a year . I’ll tell ya why . my sweet spot for squatting is every 4 days . if I dont squat for an extended time , my legs feel like absolute shit . so I avoid that almost all the time .

if anybody wants to add to that , have at it

603

What is the highest percentage you guys have used for DE work during the accumulation phase?
I tried 70% for bench (my wave was 50%, 60% 70%), and I found the bar speed was too slow and I couldn’t do as many sets as I planned. I think my next wave should be 50%, 55%, 60%.

I did around 75% for squats and speed pulls (my wave for this was 55%, 65%, 75%), and could do above 20 sets, keeping my time pretty close to the previous weeks.

604

[quote]cmchan wrote:
What is the highest percentage you guys have used for DE work during the accumulation phase?
I tried 70% for bench (my wave was 50%, 60% 70%), and I found the bar speed was too slow and I couldn’t do as many sets as I planned. I think my next wave should be 50%, 55%, 60%.

I did around 75% for squats and speed pulls (my wave for this was 55%, 65%, 75%), and could do above 20 sets, keeping my time pretty close to the previous weeks.[/quote]

I dont wave percentages during accumulation for squat and bench ; pretty much stick to about 50% for bench and squat ( but have worked up a bit after the DE sets ) . deads I think I’ve waved up to about 70% , as 50% feels stupidly fast .

is your 75% for the squat using a box ?

I ask because 75% for me on a box would not be dynamic at all…haha .

605

How do ya’ll work on the revearsal and stretch reflex for the squat? Right now, I include types of free squats like front squats and Oly squats for assistance and do half my DE work without a box at 10% higher than the recommendation because of the extra weight that can be handles without a box.

When I’ve done mostly box and pause squats in the past, I lost that stretch reflex and involuntary did a partial pause in the hole with max weights. I feel I actually have to practice that aspect and was wondering how ya’ll do it.

606

[quote]marlboroman wrote:

[quote]cmchan wrote:
What is the highest percentage you guys have used for DE work during the accumulation phase?
I tried 70% for bench (my wave was 50%, 60% 70%), and I found the bar speed was too slow and I couldn’t do as many sets as I planned. I think my next wave should be 50%, 55%, 60%.

I did around 75% for squats and speed pulls (my wave for this was 55%, 65%, 75%), and could do above 20 sets, keeping my time pretty close to the previous weeks.[/quote]

I dont wave percentages during accumulation for squat and bench ; pretty much stick to about 50% for bench and squat ( but have worked up a bit after the DE sets ) . deads I think I’ve waved up to about 70% , as 50% feels stupidly fast .

is your 75% for the squat using a box ?

I ask because 75% for me on a box would not be dynamic at all…haha .[/quote]

lol

yeah my most recent DE squat was at 75% using a 12 inch box, which wasn’t as dynamic as the previous week, which was 65%. I’ll probably stick to around 55-60% for squats. Starting this week, I’m going to try a lower box, so I’ll probably start back at 50% or even lower.

I find speed pulls easier as well with higher percentages. I’m thinking of going up to around 80%-90%.

This being said, is volume and conditioning more important than bar speed during this phase?

607

turns out I may have underestimated myself here . yesterday I did DE sets at about 45% ( 185 lbs ) plus chains , and then went 205 for 8 and 225 for 8 ( both with chains ) with a SSB . admittedly I dont have my chain weights dialed in yet , but I wouldnt have expected that with a SSB yet .

608

my aim during accumulation is to beat the previous week’s time , while maintaining technique at higher volume than during the intensification block . at first I found this quite difficult…which would suggest my conditioning sucks balls . I showed some improvement last cycle though .

I wish some of the other guys would chime in on your posts . not that I dont like to talk about training , 'cause I do . but most of the others are stronger than myself , and better versed in the Westside ways ( and training in general ).

609

I think I may of asked before, but didn’t get answered.
How often are you supposed to do a cycle of an accessory/supplemental exercise? Or does it not really matter that much as long as it is for a weakness, you do another cycle eventually, and you beat your old reps/weight?

610

What have your experiences with crazy weight been like?

Whether that be the tsunami bar, hanging dbs or kettlebells from bands onto a bb, the bamboo bar, or whatever.

I tried double looping mini bands around a 25plate on each side and worked up for ME work for squats. Took a heavy 5, double, and max and it was intense. Just walking out takes a good bit of energy. The hardest part was that as soon as I rebounded out of the hole, the quarters came crashing back down on the bands and pulled me down and everywhere.

611

[quote]marlboroman wrote:

my aim during accumulation is to beat the previous week’s time , while maintaining technique at higher volume than during the intensification block . at first I found this quite difficult…which would suggest my conditioning sucks balls . I showed some improvement last cycle though .

I wish some of the other guys would chime in on your posts . not that I dont like to talk about training , 'cause I do . but most of the others are stronger than myself , and better versed in the Westside ways ( and training in general ).
[/quote]

In my honest opinion, technique is my number one concern on DE days , followed by bar speed. The increased volume of these weeks, combined with the shortened rest times will increase your conditioning pretty much automatically. The only time my bar speed suffers is during the Intensification Block and even then, I still like to at least feel explosive, lol. Hopefully this helps a bit

612

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
What have your experiences with crazy weight been like?

Whether that be the tsunami bar, hanging dbs or kettlebells from bands onto a bb, the bamboo bar, or whatever.

I tried double looping mini bands around a 25plate on each side and worked up for ME work for squats. Took a heavy 5, double, and max and it was intense. Just walking out takes a good bit of energy. The hardest part was that as soon as I rebounded out of the hole, the quarters came crashing back down on the bands and pulled me down and everywhere. [/quote]

I’ve never used them for squats. I have hung some 25’s from Mini bands and Monster Mini bands for Good Mornings and various bench exercises. I don’t really like them for an ME Movements but I like the shit out of them for assistance exercises only because they force you to stay tight

613

[quote]DSSG wrote:
I think I may of asked before, but didn’t get answered.
How often are you supposed to do a cycle of an accessory/supplemental exercise? Or does it not really matter that much as long as it is for a weakness, you do another cycle eventually, and you beat your old reps/weight? [/quote]

Depends on what block you are in. During Acc, I rarely have a barbell in my hand. My assistance exercises are DB Ext, Pushdowns, DB sold, DB rows, stuff like that. When I get to the Int Block, all those get turned into barbell movements. Does this make sense?

614

For speed pulls:

This week, I did 30 singles with 315 in about 12 minutes, which is around 70% for me (440 1RM).

Last week, I did 27 singles with 315 in about 13 minutes.

The week before that, I did 27 singles with 275 in about the same amount of time (13ish minutes).
I would like to assume my conditioning has improved, but I don’t want that to be at the expense of bar speed.

Should I go with a lower percentage for my next speed pulls? or go up?

615

I thought generally you want to keep DE work around 40-50% of 1RM, or am I missing something here?

616

If leg drive (as opposed to hip drive) and back strength/size were your limiting factors for the squat and deadlift would you run a cycle or so of box front squats for DE work? Or narrow stance low box back squats? Or something else entirely?

617

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
If leg drive (as opposed to hip drive) and back strength/size were your limiting factors for the squat and deadlift would you run a cycle or so of box front squats for DE work? Or narrow stance low box back squats? Or something else entirely?[/quote]
I tweaked my back a little while back and couldn’t do anything except front squats for a while. I have a lot more drive off of the ground with my conventional pulls now. My deadlift is a lot worse than yours though, so my advice probably isn’t the best.

618

[quote]budreiser wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
If leg drive (as opposed to hip drive) and back strength/size were your limiting factors for the squat and deadlift would you run a cycle or so of box front squats for DE work? Or narrow stance low box back squats? Or something else entirely?[/quote]
I tweaked my back a little while back and couldn’t do anything except front squats for a while. I have a lot more drive off of the ground with my conventional pulls now. My deadlift is a lot worse than yours though, so my advice probably isn’t the best.[/quote]

Low box squats with a close stance will focus more on your squads than nything else so I bet they will help with leg drive. You may give deficit speed pulls try as well. If your back is weak, why not start making that a focal point with lots of rows, chins, and more rows? Hope this helps

619

[quote]frankjl wrote:
Fletch,

One thing that I used with some success was using the same movement for ME 2 weeks in a row. The difference being that the first week I’d use sets of 5-6’s and work up to a heavy single. I would be pre-exhausted so the top single I would hit would be less than my true 1rm.

The next week I would work up using sets of 3 and 1 up to a heavy 1 RM higher than the max the week before, then do some reps after that.

The first week you’re going to “prime” yourself, and prepare yourself for the next week. I found in the beginning, when switching lifts every week, I couldn’t really hit a strong 1RM because the motor pattern was different than what I was used to. By getting a lot of volume in on week 1, you’ll get the hang of the movement. I stopped doing this once I got used to training this way and was able to switch movements every week successfully.

Week 2 is a true ME workout, your goal being to hit a heavy heavy single. Let me re-iterate: do not miss a weight in training under any circumstances. Get your heavy reps in, shoot for PR’s, but don’t get so caught up in the numbers that you forget what matters. The only thing that matters is what you do on the platform. Condition yourself to make lifts in the gym and you’ll make them when it counts on the platform.

3 weeks on a particular movement is a little long in my opinion, and I think you should be hitting a heavy single every ME day, even if it’s not a true 1 rep max.[/quote]

HEY FRANKI

this is phenomenal advice dude !

I did this with low-box squat the last 2 weeks . prior to the last two weeks I had only done them twice as ME work . so the starting PR’s were very low , which is why I tried this with low-box .

starting PR’s were…

1 RM …315
2 RM…295
3 RM…265
5 RM…255

so the first week I worked up to 5RM and hit 265 ; then took a single with 285 and another with 305 … 10 pound PR with a bit left in the tank ( no spotter ) . I did this in the monolift ; should have used the rack .

second week I was gunnin’ for 3RM…then maybe a 1RM if all went well . I knew for sure I had 285 in me , and hoping for 295 . I worked up to 265 , and then knew I was good for 295 . got that , then threw on 315…planning on a 2 RM PR . had a GREAT SPOTTER , and I took 315 for a triple . this was a true ME set…wouldnt have got another rep , and probably couldnt have done it with 325 .

I realize that these numbers were easily beatable , but technically this was a 40 lb PR on the 3RM .confidence is high that I wouldnt have hit those weights without the previous weeks “practice” .and without the spotter I wouldnt have went for the third rep . this totally paved the way for further progress at 2RM and 1RM when the time comes .

I will definitely be doing this more often . maybe I should adapt this strategy to my less than stellar bench…haha .

thanks man , this rocked

620

oh yeah…next meet is May 4 . gunnin’ for a 1070 total ( 420/225/425 )