The Westside Method Thread II

Training Powerlifting
401

i am planning out my next meet in november. the basics at least. here is a link for what i have.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmsHSSj32z1tdF9RZ3lwT2JWWHh5SFFudmJoZGhuX0E

the green days are accumulation and the red is intensification. every other sunday i train with some strongmen and plan on at least doing farmers, deads, and overhead work as well as anything else we decide for the day.

i wish i could do a 4 day a week workout but i seem to miss 2-3 workouts a month that way and the girlfriend seems to hate it too. 3 days seems to give me much more flexibility to switch things up and still get in all my workouts in week.

my current 3 months of training i just pushed the 4 days out over a longer period. i wanted to keep lower body days on tuesdays and sundays at the private gym i have access to as it has a safety squat bar, 14" cambered bar, chains, and a deadlift with bar with grip like it has tacky all over it. i am still making progress on my pressing with only the addition of bands so i doing that mostly at my place is fine for me.

yes i know this is very general. i usually plan the exact lifts that day. i would love some feedback and advice on this. please ask any questions to help me get this right.

402

[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:

i wish i could do a 4 day a week workout but i seem to miss 2-3 workouts a month that way and the girlfriend seems to hate it too. 3 days seems to give me much more flexibility to switch things up and still get in all my workouts in week.

[/quote]

about this…what I’ve found to work best for me is an every other day schedule . this completes a “week” in 8 days instead of 10 ; and it allows flexibility for shit that pops up . it seems to be the best compromise . but it may or may not work with your gym access …just thought I’d throw it out there .

403

so I go in tonight for my last DE lower session for this intensification block . first I hit squats , and then on to deads…50% bar (185 lbs )against short avg. bands . supposed band tension according to the chart is 140 lbs ; but I remain skeptical .

after a few pulls with that rig , I feel so fucking “on” it’s ridiculous . so I work up to 275 against the bands…and then decide that tonight’s the night . I ditch the bands , and load 365 on the bar ( 95% ) . that went up fast enough , so I loaded up 405 and smoked that too for a 20 pound PR .

yeah , I know DE days aren’t for PRs . but I just couldnt waste the rage . I knew I had it .

so that tallies up to 70 pounds of PR since I started back with the conjugate way in February . a bit over 5 months .

404

Sweet PR man. Speed Pulls FTW. They took me up 30 lbs in 3 months when I first started conjugate.

On another note, what did yall think about that recent deadlift article when he stated that leg press helps build the deadlift if your slow at the start? Its just hard for me to see the leg press translating to powerlifting but in all honesty my legs are the weak part and once it gets past 1 inch off the floor its going.

secondly, do any of yall perform machine leg curls during accommodation for high reps? I figure bands or machines will get the job done since its bodybuilding style anyways.

and third, does anybody do loaded glute bridges ala bret contreras? My glutes are huge relative to my legs and my low back is relatively strong so I don’t know if this will be working my weakness but I have thought about throwing them in there for a couple sets of 10 or even a 6 RM sometime. Any thoughts?

And now that I think of it, lastly, for those of you that are RAW competitors, do you cycle only a few exercises and not use loads of band tension or basically run it the same as if geared? I say this because I’ve gotten stuck reading an article on juggernaut and listening to some of the power project.

And once more (sorry, they just keep coming), how many of yall work up to a heavy double or single in the competition lift on speed day every third or fourth week? I know Mark Bell recommends it and am thinking about throwing it in there to get some more practice at the competition lifts

405

[quote]marlboroman wrote:
so I go in tonight for my last DE lower session for this intensification block . first I hit squats , and then on to deads…50% bar (185 lbs )against short avg. bands . supposed band tension according to the chart is 140 lbs ; but I remain skeptical .

after a few pulls with that rig , I feel so fucking “on” it’s ridiculous . so I work up to 275 against the bands…and then decide that tonight’s the night . I ditch the bands , and load 365 on the bar ( 95% ) . that went up fast enough , so I loaded up 405 and smoked that too for a 20 pound PR .

yeah , I know DE days aren’t for PRs . but I just couldnt waste the rage . I knew I had it .

so that tallies up to 70 pounds of PR since I started back with the conjugate way in February . a bit over 5 months .[/quote]

Good work. When I first started training this way, I would sometimes go after PR’s on DE day. Once you really start believing in the program, and learn how your body reacts to training stimulus, you won’t need to do this anymore. You’ll be able to feel where you’re at by your DE work and your ME movements. Congrats on the PR.

406

[quote]frankjl wrote:

Good work. When I first started training this way, I would sometimes go after PR’s on DE day. Once you really start believing in the program, and learn how your body reacts to training stimulus, you won’t need to do this anymore. You’ll be able to feel where you’re at by your DE work and your ME movements. Congrats on the PR.[/quote]

you’re referring to your “indicators”…right ? . after 2 cycles , I’m starting to figure these out .

407

[quote]cscsDPT17 wrote:
Sweet PR man. Speed Pulls FTW. They took me up 30 lbs in 3 months when I first started conjugate.

On another note, what did yall think about that recent deadlift article when he stated that leg press helps build the deadlift if your slow at the start? Its just hard for me to see the leg press translating to powerlifting but in all honesty my legs are the weak part and once it gets past 1 inch off the floor its going.

secondly, do any of yall perform machine leg curls during accommodation for high reps? I figure bands or machines will get the job done since its bodybuilding style anyways.

and third, does anybody do loaded glute bridges ala bret contreras? My glutes are huge relative to my legs and my low back is relatively strong so I don’t know if this will be working my weakness but I have thought about throwing them in there for a couple sets of 10 or even a 6 RM sometime. Any thoughts?

And now that I think of it, lastly, for those of you that are RAW competitors, do you cycle only a few exercises and not use loads of band tension or basically run it the same as if geared? I say this because I’ve gotten stuck reading an article on juggernaut and listening to some of the power project.

And once more (sorry, they just keep coming), how many of yall work up to a heavy double or single in the competition lift on speed day every third or fourth week? I know Mark Bell recommends it and am thinking about throwing it in there to get some more practice at the competition lifts[/quote]

As far as the leg press is concerned, I dont like them so I very very rarely do them. I do know there are quite a few guys that use them with great success, so you may give them a try

I do band leg curls regardless of what block im in. I like the mini and lights for warm up and higher rep work…while using the strong bands and doubled-up bands for lower rep work

As far as working up to a heavy double or single, I dont do it much. Usually Im either in a transformation or intensification block, extremely high sets, or extreme band/chain tension. Once I get all my sets done, Im too damn tired and wore out to continue to add weight

Hope this helps. Sorry I didnt comment on the glute bridge, Never heard of them

408

Could you guys please remind me which ME/supplemental movements are great to get stronger off the floor on the deadlift? Speed deadlifts, deficit deadlifts, maybe box squats, what else? Zercher squats/DL (never tried them yet)? Also, I’ve been slacking with jumps and sprints, do they help?

Hope this thread isn’t going to die, 2 posts in 10 days doesn’t look too promising.

409

low box squats suck

thats all I got to say 'bout that

410

Alas, I have decided to jump of the Westside train for a while. I’ve decided one of my main weaknesses is not practicing the competition lifts with heavy weights often enough, and I don’t think Westside is the best program for me right now. I’ll still be incorporating a ton of Westside fundamentals in my programming, though, so I’ll still be trying to learn what I can.

411

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
Alas, I have decided to jump of the Westside train for a while. I’ve decided one of my main weaknesses is not practicing the competition lifts with heavy weights often enough, and I don’t think Westside is the best program for me right now. I’ll still be incorporating a ton of Westside fundamentals in my programming, though, so I’ll still be trying to learn what I can.[/quote]

x2 I’m running 5/3/1 with DE work as my main assistance after the 5/3/1 sets. I’m running first cycle with accumulation style training with the zillions of sets with straight weight for the DE work and circuits and tri-sets for the rest of the assistance.

Next cycle will be 5/3/1 for powerlifting with band/chain resistance for DE work and heavier assistance work.

I know Wendler doesn’t like DE work, but I felt that was the best part of westside for me.

I have no idea how well this will work.

412

I’ll actually be running an Ed Coan peaking cycle that will line up perfectly for my next meet. Three days a week, focusing on the competition lifts, plenty of GPP on off days, and with a few diet tweaks I think I can begin a slow cut to 181. I’ll be incorporating dynamic work in the form of a few of the reactive strength drills that STB has posted on his blog. Assistance and accessory work will be rotated, and will target my main weak areas (lats, mainly).

And, to prevent from hijacking this thread, I have a question for STB that will apply to both Westside and the program I’ll be running:
What kind of reactive strength drills do you suggest for upper body? I plan on doing a lot of things like box squat jumps and reactive depth jumps, but I need something I could use on an upper body day. I think these are a great way to prime the body for some heavy lifting, and, in the way I’ll be trying to use them, as a sort of “substitute” for dynamic work.

413

I’ll ask a question @Anybody:

My deadlift lockout is my weakness now.

I’m currently using GM off pins (under bellybutton), SSB box/free squats and deficit sumo/conventional pulls. Anyone know how I could switch some things around to help with lockout? SSB helps I think, GM off pins would help, and I don’t know if rack pulls would help much. Maybe pulls starting 2" below the knee, but I hear a lot of shit about how that doesn’t help a pull from the floor due to differences in position, and honestly, I don’t want to make my training easier than competition. If anyone can give me some help, I’d appreciate it.

414

[quote]louiek wrote:
I’ll ask a question @Anybody:

My deadlift lockout is my weakness now.

I’m currently using GM off pins (under bellybutton), SSB box/free squats and deficit sumo/conventional pulls. Anyone know how I could switch some things around to help with lockout? SSB helps I think, GM off pins would help, and I don’t know if rack pulls would help much. Maybe pulls starting 2" below the knee, but I hear a lot of shit about how that doesn’t help a pull from the floor due to differences in position, and honestly, I don’t want to make my training easier than competition. If anyone can give me some help, I’d appreciate it.[/quote]

Try any sort of pull against heavy bands (chains might work too, but I can’t say I’ve used them). I have to squeeze the hell out of my glutes with these, and I got good carry-over in both lockout strength and knowing how to squeeze the last few inches out.

415

[quote]MegaDavo891 wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:
I’ll ask a question @Anybody:

My deadlift lockout is my weakness now.

I’m currently using GM off pins (under bellybutton), SSB box/free squats and deficit sumo/conventional pulls. Anyone know how I could switch some things around to help with lockout? SSB helps I think, GM off pins would help, and I don’t know if rack pulls would help much. Maybe pulls starting 2" below the knee, but I hear a lot of shit about how that doesn’t help a pull from the floor due to differences in position, and honestly, I don’t want to make my training easier than competition. If anyone can give me some help, I’d appreciate it.[/quote]

Try any sort of pull against heavy bands (chains might work too, but I can’t say I’ve used them). I have to squeeze the hell out of my glutes with these, and I got good carry-over in both lockout strength and knowing how to squeeze the last few inches out. [/quote]

How about rack pulls from the knee for assistance? Accumulation 5x10 w/ hold on last rep. And maybe work that into Intensification for a 6RM w/ hold on last rep.

416

Hey everyone, joined the T-Nation forums just for this after spending the last while reading this thread as well as part 1. First off, thanks for all the great information it has been a HUGE help in setting up my first Westside style training program.

I was hoping you guys could take a look at what I’ve come up with here just to make sure I’m on track. I don’t compete, but my max training lifts at body weight 160 lbs are 340 Squat, 190 Bench, and 370 Deadlift (so not very strong.) I’ll be doing 4 weeks accumulation, 3 weeks intensity, 1 week deload, repeat. This is what I’ve come up with:

I’ve chosen 4 ME exercises each so my 7 weeks of training planned will not quite go through them each twice. For the most part, these are new variations to me or are ones that I really suck at.
ME Upper Rotation: Close-Grip Bench, Wide-Grip Bench, Incline Press, DB Bench Press
ME Lower Rotation: Low-Pin Conventional Deadlift, Low Box Squat, Good Morning, Front Squat

Accumulation (4 weeks)
ME - Main lift 3-5 RM.
DE - [Box Squat/Bench] for [2/3] x 20 for total time, Speed Sumo Deadlifts for 8 singles. Straight weight.
Assistance - 3 or 4 exercises targeting weak spots for 5-15 reps, 3 or 4 sets

Intensity (3 weeks)
ME - Main lift 1-3 RM.
DE - [Box Squat/Bench] for [2/3] x 8 with 50sec rest, Speed Sumo Deadlifts for 8 singles with 30sec rest. All with bands.
Assistance - 2 or 3 exercises targeting weak spots for 5-10 reps, 3 sets.

Mon - ME Upper
Tues - Off
Wed - ME Lower
Thurs - Conditioning or recreational sport
Fri - DE Upper
Sat - DE Lower
Sun - Extra workout (optional to hit something lagging)

Does this seem reasonable? Are DBs okay for one of my ME lifts as I currently have set up, or should these be BB lifts? Since I’m making a 7-week plan, should I necessarily have 7 exercises in my ME rotation? Have I appropriately modified my assistance work to fit the demands of each block?

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed so far!

417

[quote]DavidSchonborn wrote:
Hey everyone, joined the T-Nation forums just for this after spending the last while reading this thread as well as part 1. First off, thanks for all the great information it has been a HUGE help in setting up my first Westside style training program.

I was hoping you guys could take a look at what I’ve come up with here just to make sure I’m on track. I don’t compete, but my max training lifts at body weight 160 lbs are 340 Squat, 190 Bench, and 370 Deadlift (so not very strong.) I’ll be doing 4 weeks accumulation, 3 weeks intensity, 1 week deload, repeat. This is what I’ve come up with:

I’ve chosen 4 ME exercises each so my 7 weeks of training planned will not quite go through them each twice. For the most part, these are new variations to me or are ones that I really suck at.
ME Upper Rotation: Close-Grip Bench, Wide-Grip Bench, Incline Press, DB Bench Press
ME Lower Rotation: Low-Pin Conventional Deadlift, Low Box Squat, Good Morning, Front Squat

Accumulation (4 weeks)
ME - Main lift 3-5 RM.
DE - [Box Squat/Bench] for [2/3] x 20 for total time, Speed Sumo Deadlifts for 8 singles. Straight weight.
Assistance - 3 or 4 exercises targeting weak spots for 5-15 reps, 3 or 4 sets

Intensity (3 weeks)
ME - Main lift 1-3 RM.
DE - [Box Squat/Bench] for [2/3] x 8 with 50sec rest, Speed Sumo Deadlifts for 8 singles with 30sec rest. All with bands.
Assistance - 2 or 3 exercises targeting weak spots for 5-10 reps, 3 sets.

Mon - ME Upper
Tues - Off
Wed - ME Lower
Thurs - Conditioning or recreational sport
Fri - DE Upper
Sat - DE Lower
Sun - Extra workout (optional to hit something lagging)

Does this seem reasonable? Are DBs okay for one of my ME lifts as I currently have set up, or should these be BB lifts? Since I’m making a 7-week plan, should I necessarily have 7 exercises in my ME rotation? Have I appropriately modified my assistance work to fit the demands of each block?

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed so far![/quote]

IMO:

No DBs for max effort. 1RM in Int. block, 3-5RM in Acc. 2RM if you feel like going really heavy in Acc., but not all the time.

In Int., I’ll do a 1RM, then I do a 30-50 RM to work a weakness. After that, I’ll hit a 6RM, and then hit all my other assistance. Only on ME day though.

I also wouldn’t do any pulls higher than regular. My lockout is my weak point, so this next Acc. block I’ll be doing SSB free/box squats, GM off pins (straight bar and SSB), and pulls with Monster Mini bands, and use rack pulls from just below the knee as 6RM in Int., or 5x10 in Acc., both holding last rep of all sets and pausing on pins.

Now, you’re supposed to keep assistance limited to DBs in Acc., but I can’t really do a lot with that, so I tend to do SLDL, RDL, Glute Bridge for all my Acc. assistance work, 5x10. Then after that I’ll do seated GMs and Strongman events. For ME upper, I’ll do my 3RM, then chinups, tricep work, upperback/biceps.

I’m not very good at DE work, so I always do it. Main thing to remember there is to get some variety. 12x2@50% / 12x2@55% / 10x2@60% is the cycle recommended, but I can’t go that heavy, let alone that plus bands. So I go by feel. I’ll be starting this Int. block with 12x2@155lbs + bands, and then moving up from there, using a 12" box (below parallel).

For DE assistance, I go lighter. I’ll do 5x10 straight bar Good Mornings with 95lbs, pushups, tire flips, stone lifting, farmer walks.

GPP/Work Capacity is important as well. I do Strongman events. Not everyone has the time for doing 2 workout a day or even 6 workouts a week, but doing some sprints or just walking has benefit.

What you have looks good to me. Just need to train some and see where it takes you as far as weakness’ and shit.

418

@ David

if you’re looking for a lift to swap with the DB press on your ME upper day , give pin presses a swirl .

very heavy…very humble

419

To those who are jumping off of the Westside train and onto something else for a while have you considered implementing Westside just with more practice of the competition lifts? After listening to a few things from Mark Bell and a few others, particularly about Westside for raw lifters, here are a few principles I plan on using this next cycle to see how it works and to get some extra practice of the competition lifts:

-Alternating only a few exercises for ME which include the competition lifts with straight weight (I’ve never understood why the competition lifts aren’t at least practiced to some degree. Yeah you don’t want to adapt to the exercise but if they are one of your ME lifts every few weeks its not like your body knows, oh this is the lift that I compete in)

-Alternating between working up to a 2 RM or at least a relatively heavy 2 on DE day after 10 sets of each or doing 5x5 with the same straight weight and flawless form after 8 sets of DE work

-Free squats for DE included in, probably alternating weeks or either doing 10 sets with the box and then 5 without

As you can probably see, my squat is suffering (as is posted on this forum with a 350 squat compared to a 500 pull) so I’ve got to focus on practicing that lift. My bench actually hasn’t moved much lately either so 2RM and 5x5 will apply on these. This is at least what I’m going to try. I haven’t drawn out everything yet but hope to in the next week. Does anybody else incorporate the comp lifts in or do alternative things on DE day with success?

420

[quote]cscsDPT17 wrote:
To those who are jumping off of the Westside train and onto something else for a while have you considered implementing Westside just with more practice of the competition lifts? After listening to a few things from Mark Bell and a few others, particularly about Westside for raw lifters, here are a few principles I plan on using this next cycle to see how it works and to get some extra practice of the competition lifts:

-Alternating only a few exercises for ME which include the competition lifts with straight weight (I’ve never understood why the competition lifts aren’t at least practiced to some degree. Yeah you don’t want to adapt to the exercise but if they are one of your ME lifts every few weeks its not like your body knows, oh this is the lift that I compete in)

-Alternating between working up to a 2 RM or at least a relatively heavy 2 on DE day after 10 sets of each or doing 5x5 with the same straight weight and flawless form after 8 sets of DE work

-Free squats for DE included in, probably alternating weeks or either doing 10 sets with the box and then 5 without

As you can probably see, my squat is suffering (as is posted on this forum with a 350 squat compared to a 500 pull) so I’ve got to focus on practicing that lift. My bench actually hasn’t moved much lately either so 2RM and 5x5 will apply on these. This is at least what I’m going to try. I haven’t drawn out everything yet but hope to in the next week. Does anybody else incorporate the comp lifts in or do alternative things on DE day with success?[/quote]

I wouldn’t do DE free squats, only because the box squat teaches fast contraction of specific muscles, and firing of specific muscles at certain points. ME free squats, however, I see no problem with, considering I squat the most oly style and compete Strongman, not geared powerlifting. But the idea is to make training HARD so competition is easy. In that regard, you can’t use a straight bar free squat, because it’s just as difficult as your competition lift. But a SSB free squat or straight bar + chains set at sticking point, sounds like something I’d do.