I remember asking STB about alternating stances like bench grips for DE squats for raw lifting and he said it was alright. I think he even said that he does it. I also remember him saying he doesn’t do this with the suit because of something about shitting a spine out when squatting with a narrow stance.
Anyway, the alternating stances thing has gone a long way of helping my hips which is one of my problem areas.
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
[quote]louiek wrote:
I think that’s the point of a cambered bar squat. Not a SSB squat.[/quote]
I’ve never seen a safety bar that doesn’t have a camber.
[/quote]
My mistake then.
at Frank
damn , you made that 705 pull look easy .
did you take another after that ?
The Safety Squat Bars have, I believe, a 3inch camber to them. The camber part is bent forward slightly, that’s why the bar is always “throwing” you forward. The Spider Bar is the SSB with 13in camber to it, if I’m not mistaken. On a personal note, I fucking love the SSB , that would be one of the first bars I bought if I’d ever open my own gym
[quote]marlboroman wrote:
at Frank
damn , you made that 705 pull look easy .
did you take another after that ?[/quote]
No I didn’t. The goal of that day was to get an idea which stance I should use at the meet I’m doing in August. Also, it was around a 50 lb PR. I already hit my goal for the day and shattered a PR so I just went on to my supplemental movements. Adding more weight to the bar this far out from the meet served little purpose other than “testing” to see what I was capable of. I’d rather spend my energy building an even bigger deadlift.
I’ll throw my hat in on the briefs/straps down on DE day issue. For a period of 4 months in 2011 ( Aug-Nov) I did all of my DE squatting wearing an old single ply metal squat suit. I continued to do all of my Max Effort work raw, or would only add gear when I absolutely needed to. During this time I did NOT take a straight bar, straight weight free squat raw, as I was training for a single ply meet.
However, I did make many many raw PRs in my max effort movements, and I did set a free squat PR of 600lbs ( @~200) in that same single ply suit. I’m confident that I could have PR’d my raw free squat at this time,as well. I’m a wide stance squatter ( most of the time), and wearing those loose bottoms helped keep my hips feelin’ fine during a rough squat cycle.
If I were to train for a raw squat right now, I would use loose briefs or suit bottoms for my DE, set my box an inch or two lower, and get lots of raw training on my ME work, and some raw free squat variations on my supplemental work. Just my .02, carry on fellows.
Even though, the SSB throws you forward more, the top squat or straps in front or anything where your hands are in front does change the movement some. Like I said with the top squat, it is much less than my reg squat although probably not as much less as a SSB squat would be. I consider it in the middle and still a variation. I feel it much more in my quads and mid back with higher reps and dead top squats. Goodmornings with the top squat suck as well. Decent for the price considering its half of what a SSB cost and won’t take up much room to take it to the gym for leg days.
Although if I had the extra money I’d get a SSB or Spider Bar in a heartbeat. Someday
[quote]cscsDPT17 wrote:
Even though, the SSB throws you forward more, the top squat or straps in front or anything where your hands are in front does change the movement some. Like I said with the top squat, it is much less than my reg squat although probably not as much less as a SSB squat would be. I consider it in the middle and still a variation. I feel it much more in my quads and mid back with higher reps and dead top squats. Goodmornings with the top squat suck as well. Decent for the price considering its half of what a SSB cost and won’t take up much room to take it to the gym for leg days[/quote]
I wonder if you can do rounded back squats with it like a SSB.
Yeah I would think so, I mean it functions pretty much the same from the looks of it. It straps onto the bar and fits onto the bar pretty snug (rubber inserts are almost non-slip and form around the bar) so as long as you hold onto the handles it shouldn’t go anywhere
[quote]frankjl wrote:
[quote]marlboroman wrote:
at Frank
damn , you made that 705 pull look easy .
did you take another after that ?[/quote]
No I didn’t. The goal of that day was to get an idea which stance I should use at the meet I’m doing in August. Also, it was around a 50 lb PR. I already hit my goal for the day and shattered a PR so I just went on to my supplemental movements. Adding more weight to the bar this far out from the meet served little purpose other than “testing” to see what I was capable of. I’d rather spend my energy building an even bigger deadlift.[/quote]
got it . thanks .
[quote]cscsDPT17 wrote:
Goodmornings with the top squat suck as well. [/quote]
does this mean the movement is not doable ? or that it’s hard as fuck making it a great variation ?
How different is a Yoke Bar to a Spider Bar?
I used it today (Spider Bar) as I couldn’t find the Yoke Bar which I was planning on using so I just assumed it would be fairly similar as the only real difference is more of a camber.
[quote]marlboroman wrote:
[quote]cscsDPT17 wrote:
Goodmornings with the top squat suck as well. [/quote]
does this mean the movement is not doable ? or that it’s hard as fuck making it a great variation ?
[/quote]
No its definitely doable. Its pretty hard. I’ve only done them a handful of times with just bands on the bar for burnout sets at the end and it took a while to get the form down but definitely hit your mid back hard. Good stuff
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
How different is a Yoke Bar to a Spider Bar?
I used it today (Spider Bar) as I couldn’t find the Yoke Bar which I was planning on using so I just assumed it would be fairly similar as the only real difference is more of a camber.[/quote]
I believe you’re referring to the names of the bars as they are on EliteFTS’ website. Here is a quick synopsis:
Safety Squat Bar – aka the “Hatfield” squat bar, the SSB and/or the “Yoke” squat bar. This bar has shoulder pads in the front and a small camber (usually 2-4"). It may or may not have handles. This bar will ruin your entire back, from upper to lower. It’s awesome for squats and good mornings. This bar will force you to drive your head and neck back into the bar as you are squatting, or the camber in the bar will fold you in half. Prepare to be humbled.
Cambered Bar – a bar with a significant (typically 12-18") camber in the center. This bar is great for squats and good mornings, typically people will use these bars to target their lower back / hips / glutes. This bar forces you stay tight out of the hole, or the weight will shift forward and ruin your life.
Cambered SSB – aka the “Spider bar” – A hybrid of the above 2 bars. This bar is my personal favorite for any good morning movements. Because of the larger camber, it doesn’t throw you forward as much as the SSB but it’s still a ball buster. Another great choice for lifters with shoulder problems.
All of these are great variants, especially people with upper body injuries / inflamed bicep tendons, etc, etc.
Hmm, so would you say using the Spider Bar is actually easier than using the Yoke Bar/SSB because it doesn’t throw you forward as much? Not sure if I should just keep using the Spider Bar in this cycle as I used it yesterday or change it.
Thanks for the summary.
Right now I’ve been following STB’s suggestion of doing something like ME Squat then a RDL or ME Deadlift then a higher rep Box Squat etc. (an alternate barbell movement afterwards).
Any ideas on instead of that adding some higher rep (similar to back off sets) between the two exercises?
For example:
ME SSB Squat - 3RM
SSB Squat - 2x10
RDL - 3x10
Something like that. Right now I feel my volume for lower body is quite low and I’m not so sure the stuff I was doing instead to bring it up (machine work) is really helpful. This seems like it will be rather tough but equally should be helpful. I’m finding myself not pushing quad work enough at times and although PC is important for squatting, as a raw lifter I think I’ve forgotten that quads are very important too.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Right now I’ve been following STB’s suggestion of doing something like ME Squat then a RDL or ME Deadlift then a higher rep Box Squat etc. (an alternate barbell movement afterwards).
Any ideas on instead of that adding some higher rep (similar to back off sets) between the two exercises?
For example:
ME SSB Squat - 3RM
SSB Squat - 2x10
RDL - 3x10
Something like that. Right now I feel my volume for lower body is quite low and I’m not so sure the stuff I was doing instead to bring it up (machine work) is really helpful. This seems like it will be rather tough but equally should be helpful. I’m finding myself not pushing quad work enough at times and although PC is important for squatting, as a raw lifter I think I’ve forgotten that quads are very important too.[/quote]
It depends what block you are in. If you are doing Accumulation and your volume is low, then yes, you are doing it wrong. Now, if you are in the middle of Intensification, and your volume is low, thats ok, your intensity should be through the roof.
Ive never heard of a back off set, so I cant really comment on them. If it were me, rather than throw in another exercise, Id just do a few more sets of my secondary movement. Do my main movement, then do 4 sets of 6 on my secondary movement.
As far as quads being important for the raw lifter, I think everything is important for the raw lifter.
I am in accumulation phase. There are some things I can do to raise volume (machine work namely) but I’m not exa ctly sure how much doing leg presses helps instead of doing something like SSB squats for higher reps or something.
For example, last night I had ME Squats and I did:
ME Spider Bar Squats - 4RM
RDL - 3x9
GHR - 3x7
Leg Press - 2x15
Light Ab work
I’m not exactly sure how much volume that would constitute and whether it is fine or too little for Accumulation block.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
I am in accumulation phase. There are some things I can do to raise volume (machine work namely) but I’m not exa ctly sure how much doing leg presses helps instead of doing something like SSB squats for higher reps or something.
For example, last night I had ME Squats and I did:
ME Spider Bar Squats - 4RM
RDL - 3x9
GHR - 3x7
Leg Press - 2x15
Light Ab work
I’m not exactly sure how much volume that would constitute and whether it is fine or too little for Accumulation block.[/quote]
Again, why add in another exercise? Work the shit out of those Spider Bar squats, add a few more sets of RDL or do (2)Rep Sets instead, finish up with 5 sets of 10 on the GHR super setted with 5 sets of abs then go eat a pizza.
Well of course I am/trying to if I’m hitting a 4RM. Err, it’s more just to get some more squat volume really. I think deadlifts don’t really require as much volume usually but squats require more so just for that reason.