actually , I’ll re-phrase that question for anybody who wants to answer .
what do you focus on…beating the clock or keeping the reps as fast as possible ?
I know this was asked before but for the life of me I cannot find it. What do you guys think on how to train when you dont have a meet planned? After the meet I have this coming weekend, my plan is to not compete again til mid to late fall (october-november). I want to spend time focusing on building a lot more strength. I was looking at running something like a 5/3/1 because with the rep scheme it would be good, but I need to learn what I need to do in times like these. Any help or direction?
Sorry for the wall of text. Thanks guys.
[quote]pbclax1 wrote:
I know this was asked before but for the life of me I cannot find it. What do you guys think on how to train when you dont have a meet planned? After the meet I have this coming weekend, my plan is to not compete again til mid to late fall (october-november). I want to spend time focusing on building a lot more strength. I was looking at running something like a 5/3/1 because with the rep scheme it would be good, but I need to learn what I need to do in times like these. Any help or direction?
Sorry for the wall of text. Thanks guys.[/quote]
Run 4 weeks acc., 2 weeks int., deload. That’s what I do. If I really want to I’ll do my deload, run a transformation week, then test a lift to see if what I’m doing is working. Usually though I just make sure I’m advancing on my alternate lifts and don’t test for a 1RM, but instead test with a certain weight to see if it feels lighter. i.e. if my max is 360 I’ll squat 350 and see how it feels. My deadlift on 3" deficit is 415, so I’ll deadlift 405 for 1 to see how it feels. Not maxing, but hitting a >80% mark just to gauge my form and strength.
Raw benchers: How often would you do a partial movement? Heard things about alternating it so one week full ROM and other partial. Seems like a decent plan really. But I am worried that my main weakness is off the chest (well, I think that’s for every raw bencher out there) so don’t want to make that worse.
The way I’m looking at the high volume DE is for GPP(short rests) and to fight to maintain form and speed when fatigued. Plus it has added some mass.
The later sets are a bit slower (with 60% anyway…much easier to stay fast to the end with 50%) I’m still getting a lot of fast sets up front. Plus I can get DE work with longer rests during the intensification phase.
but I haven’t tried for PRs yet. We’ll see if it works.
[quote]giterdone wrote:
The way I’m looking at the high volume DE is for GPP(short rests) and to fight to maintain form and speed when fatigued. Plus it has added some mass.
The later sets are a bit slower (with 60% anyway…much easier to stay fast to the end with 50%) I’m still getting a lot of fast sets up front. Plus I can get DE work with longer rests during the intensification phase.
but I haven’t tried for PRs yet. We’ll see if it works. [/quote]
got it .
tonight was my last DE lower/accumulation block , so I went balls out and got that time down to 18:30…almost 4 minutes ; but I was spent after that . and I felt a bit sloppy at the end . almost blew off the pulls…haha . but I sucked it up and did them anyway ; slow as fuck , so I worked up to circa 65% for good luck .
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Raw benchers: How often would you do a partial movement? Heard things about alternating it so one week full ROM and other partial. Seems like a decent plan really. But I am worried that my main weakness is off the chest (well, I think that’s for every raw bencher out there) so don’t want to make that worse.[/quote]
The two partial ME movements I perform are two boards and floor presses and I rotate them in about every other week. If your main weekness is off the chest, your full range movements should help with that. If you feel you need extra work, you can always choose close or wide grip benches or dumbell work, something along those lines to perform after your main movement to help build your starting strength. Hope this helps
[quote]pbclax1 wrote:
I know this was asked before but for the life of me I cannot find it. What do you guys think on how to train when you dont have a meet planned? After the meet I have this coming weekend, my plan is to not compete again til mid to late fall (october-november). I want to spend time focusing on building a lot more strength. I was looking at running something like a 5/3/1 because with the rep scheme it would be good, but I need to learn what I need to do in times like these. Any help or direction?
Sorry for the wall of text. Thanks guys.[/quote]
I just had my meet this past weekend, and don’t have anything until Worlds the last weekend in November. I’ll be running 8 weeks accumulation, 6 weeks intensification, 1 week deload, 4 weeks accumulation, 2 weeks accumulation, 2 weeks transformation, 1 week deload.
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
[quote]pbclax1 wrote:
I know this was asked before but for the life of me I cannot find it. What do you guys think on how to train when you dont have a meet planned? After the meet I have this coming weekend, my plan is to not compete again til mid to late fall (october-november). I want to spend time focusing on building a lot more strength. I was looking at running something like a 5/3/1 because with the rep scheme it would be good, but I need to learn what I need to do in times like these. Any help or direction?
Sorry for the wall of text. Thanks guys.[/quote]
I just had my meet this past weekend, and don’t have anything until Worlds the last weekend in November. I’ll be running 8 weeks accumulation, 6 weeks intensification, 1 week deload, 4 weeks accumulation, 2 weeks accumulation, 2 weeks transformation, 1 week deload.[/quote]
Would you mind if I shot you a PM to get more details about this?
[quote]Chicksan wrote:
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Raw benchers: How often would you do a partial movement? Heard things about alternating it so one week full ROM and other partial. Seems like a decent plan really. But I am worried that my main weakness is off the chest (well, I think that’s for every raw bencher out there) so don’t want to make that worse.[/quote]
The two partial ME movements I perform are two boards and floor presses and I rotate them in about every other week. If your main weekness is off the chest, your full range movements should help with that. If you feel you need extra work, you can always choose close or wide grip benches or dumbell work, something along those lines to perform after your main movement to help build your starting strength. Hope this helps[/quote]
Yes I’m on acc. block so I’m doing DB work but when I’m on int. block I do some kind of heavy 2nd barbell movement. I do OHP now to be fair for like 3x8 because I think as a raw lifter it MAY help me. I can’t be sure, but my OHP is weak and so I want to find out. Plus, OHP is pretty cool.
Feeling a bit annoyed at my progress with Westside.
My deadlift and squat (especially) have progressed well and I’m very happy but my bench press has progressed very little/if at all.
Not sure if it’s due to the programming or other reasons. I do have a couple of form issues that I need to fix but even then I’d expect to at least get stronger with those issues. Plenty of guys back in the day got strong as shit with probably very poor form before they realised how to bench properly and all.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Feeling a bit annoyed at my progress with Westside.
My deadlift and squat (especially) have progressed well and I’m very happy but my bench press has progressed very little/if at all.
Not sure if it’s due to the programming or other reasons. I do have a couple of form issues that I need to fix but even then I’d expect to at least get stronger with those issues. Plenty of guys back in the day got strong as shit with probably very poor form before they realised how to bench properly and all.
[/quote]
What’s your plan for ME/DE upper? As in movements, using bands, your weakness’, assistance, etc.
[quote]louiek wrote:
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Feeling a bit annoyed at my progress with Westside.
My deadlift and squat (especially) have progressed well and I’m very happy but my bench press has progressed very little/if at all.
Not sure if it’s due to the programming or other reasons. I do have a couple of form issues that I need to fix but even then I’d expect to at least get stronger with those issues. Plenty of guys back in the day got strong as shit with probably very poor form before they realised how to bench properly and all.
[/quote]
What’s your plan for ME/DE upper? As in movements, using bands, your weakness’, assistance, etc.[/quote]
Well only now that I am joining a new gym over the Summer will I have access to bands and chains and many different type of bars. We’ll see if that is the missing factor but let’s be real - plenty got strong without using them so I’m not sure if I should be hoping they are some sort of magic pill.
Right now my ME exercises are close-grips, pause bench, 1-2 board, floor press and any variety of those mixed in. Then on one day I go heavy on OHP and another I do higher rep work on dumbbells - all angles.
After that one day I’ll do heavy rows and another high volume pull-ups. Then some more tricep work possibly (pushdowns, extensions) and then some rear delt work. After that if I want fluff things like curls and side raises.
My progress on quite a few assistance exercises has been going very well. It doesn’t seem to really be transferring though.
Not sure what changes I can make. As I said, there’s a couple of form issues I need to sort out but surely if I am stronger I should bench more regardless. Of course at world record bench the form matters a ton more as small things are amplified but for now if I am getting stronger then surely I should be benching more and I’m not.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
[quote]louiek wrote:
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Feeling a bit annoyed at my progress with Westside.
My deadlift and squat (especially) have progressed well and I’m very happy but my bench press has progressed very little/if at all.
Not sure if it’s due to the programming or other reasons. I do have a couple of form issues that I need to fix but even then I’d expect to at least get stronger with those issues. Plenty of guys back in the day got strong as shit with probably very poor form before they realised how to bench properly and all.
[/quote]
What’s your plan for ME/DE upper? As in movements, using bands, your weakness’, assistance, etc.[/quote]
Well only now that I am joining a new gym over the Summer will I have access to bands and chains and many different type of bars. We’ll see if that is the missing factor but let’s be real - plenty got strong without using them so I’m not sure if I should be hoping they are some sort of magic pill.
Right now my ME exercises are close-grips, pause bench, 1-2 board, floor press and any variety of those mixed in. Then on one day I go heavy on OHP and another I do higher rep work on dumbbells - all angles.
After that one day I’ll do heavy rows and another high volume pull-ups. Then some more tricep work possibly (pushdowns, extensions) and then some rear delt work. After that if I want fluff things like curls and side raises.
My progress on quite a few assistance exercises has been going very well. It doesn’t seem to really be transferring though.
Not sure what changes I can make. As I said, there’s a couple of form issues I need to sort out but surely if I am stronger I should bench more regardless. Of course at world record bench the form matters a ton more as small things are amplified but for now if I am getting stronger then surely I should be benching more and I’m not.[/quote]
Is your CG bench more or less than your wide? If it’s more, you might want to try working on your shoulder strength for awhile.
I’ve always benched wide and done OHP for max effort. Due to that, my triceps are the weak link, and I bench 265x1 on CG and 275x2 on wide. Seems like all your variations are focused on bringing up your triceps, when you could just try maxing out on incline pressing, overhead pressing, z-pressing. All gripped with thumbs distance from the smooth. Maybe some pink-on-power-ring pressing variations as well.
Also, bands, bars and chains aren’t “magic,” but they’re great for developing specific weakness’. They help a shitload.
Right now I’ve decided to bench with a medium-grip as I think it’s the best trade-off between risk and reward. My medium-grip is the same as my wide-grip. When I say medium-grip I mean half-way between close and wide (some do it differently, but that’s my reference point).
Never thought of doing OHP for max effort. As I said, I do heavy OHP work after as a secondary barbell movement so I didn’t think it’d be wise to do that. In the end, you need to bench to bench more right?
Something I am thinking of changing is DE work. I think for a while I’m gonna try doing RE bench instead and see if that helps more. Or, I’m gonna raise the weight quite a bit so it’s not very slow but not super fast either and maybe that’ll help.
My shoulder strength is a weakness for sure but I thought I’d bring it up with secondary movements/RE work. I tried doing incline bench (w/ barbell) but it hurt my shoulders a lot and just didn’t feel nice so I haven’t done it in a long time.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Right now I’ve decided to bench with a medium-grip as I think it’s the best trade-off between risk and reward. My medium-grip is the same as my wide-grip. When I say medium-grip I mean half-way between close and wide (some do it differently, but that’s my reference point).
[/quote]
Is your wide grip pink-on-power-ring? That’s my wide grip. I’ll be moving in to CG to work my triceps. Wide grip has no risk to it, as long as you warm up properly. And it will be good to strengthen the shoulder.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Never thought of doing OHP for max effort. As I said, I do heavy OHP work after as a secondary barbell movement so I didn’t think it’d be wise to do that. In the end, you need to bench to bench more right?
[/quote]
Drop shoulder assistance to 3-5x12, no failing, and go for a 1-3RM in the overhead press. And no, you don’t need to bench to bench more. At least, not if you bench under 315. I went from a ~235 bench to a 285 with room for 295, using just overhead pressing for max effort work, with pushups, 1-arm DB OHP, and tricep pushdowns. Took me about 3 months, IIRC. If your weakness is shoulders, give it a try.
OHP - 3RM
Chinup variation - 2-4 sets without failing
Pushups - 2x AMRAP without failing
1-arm DB press - 3-5x12
Tricep pushdown - 3x10
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
My shoulder strength is a weakness for sure but I thought I’d bring it up with secondary movements/RE work. I tried doing incline bench (w/ barbell) but it hurt my shoulders a lot and just didn’t feel nice so I haven’t done it in a long time.[/quote]
You should try doing rehab work on the shoulder. Shoulder dislocations before lifting too.
If your hips were a weakness, would you keep doing conventional deadlifts and then just strengthen your hips through assistance? No, you’d start doing sumo pulls. Use a ME lift that strengthens the weak areas. OHP will help you do that. Like I said, I did only OHP for months, no benching whatsoever, not even for speed work because I don’t train for powerlifting. My bench moved up 40lbs+ because I had weak shoulders.
Thanks I will give it a go!
I’ve been wondering and I have a question:
- Is it okay to not use a box for dynamic effort squats? I will now have access to bands and chains and can use them but I just don’t feel using a box helps my raw squat. When I used a box more I didn’t see much progress but when I started to alternate and use free squats as dynamic effort I saw good improvements. It helped solidify my technique and get fast with free squat.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Thanks I will give it a go!
I’ve been wondering and I have a question:
- Is it okay to not use a box for dynamic effort squats? I will now have access to bands and chains and can use them but I just don’t feel using a box helps my raw squat. When I used a box more I didn’t see much progress but when I started to alternate and use free squats as dynamic effort I saw good improvements. It helped solidify my technique and get fast with free squat.
[/quote]
Have you tried doing DE and ME with the box and all your supplementary squats as free squats paused or otherwise already?
To be fair I just don’t really like to use the box much. At one point I used it quite often when I was infatuated with Westside (after seeing all the videos lol) but when I used it a lot less I found my progress was a lot better.
I guess like Westside for Skinny Bastards. Works for Joe DeFranco’s guys even though he has made changes to Westside.
Just not really feeling box squats for raw squats. I perfectly understand why they work well for an equipped lifter but I don’t feel them for raw. When I see any single-ply or raw lifters they rarely/if ever use it and only seems to be loved my equipped. Not saying you won’t get strong if you get very strong on box but I think progress, for me at least, seems to be better when I keep it to a minimum.
What I’m asking is more if it’s detrimental to Westside if I don’t really use it much. I guess at the end everyone makes a lot of changes to arrive at their own thing.
I think the problem with DE free squats is that a) the form doesn’t hold as well, b) there’s no breakup between eccentric and concentric, and therefore you don’t practice activation of the muscle from a dead position, and c) it doesn’t hit the muscles as well as a box squat.