The Westside Method Thread II

Training Powerlifting
181

[quote]Jussi.U wrote:
When doing accumulation block how many sets ( 3 reps per set) you think is “optimal”)?
I will use 50% on my max bench (and maybe some chains, i need get some bands too…)

I am also little confused about supplemental exercises while doing this block. Supp.exercises should be more general exercises (like GHR,overhead press,lateral raises…?) Share me link if you know where they talk about these exercises.

This system is something,where you can spend a lot of time and learn so f*cking much.

Cheers![/quote]

I went 15x3 for bench , 15x2 for squat , and 12x1 for deads . next cycle Im going 18x3,18x2, and 10x1 . minimal acc. res. is whats recomended . I remember seeing that a few around here have gone over 20 sets .

182

I’m in my second week of Accumulation. Yesterdays bench session was 22 sets of 3 reps in under 14 minutes. Next week I will shoot for 25 sets in even less time. Accessory work is high volume, low intensity. I can’t think of the term to use, but all my accessory work is non specific, lots of DB work, pushdowsns, stuff of that nature. Not much BB work being used. That will happen with the Intensification Block

183

Ok, I have a couple of questions

  1. In the westside book of methods I don’t really see much about the different blocks. This thread is the first place I saw the accumulation and the intensification blocks. Can anyone direct me to a source that has some writings about these?

  2. Would this be a pretty good set up for the DE day within the blocks
    Accumulation - 1 week of lactate tolerance and then a 3 week wave of speed strength
    Intensification - 3 week wave of strength speed

  3. I usually just see a 60% weight recommendation for the bench without a wave, would this be with +20% in bands, or if using bands would you reduce the 60%? I know the weights are simply a reccommendation, but I’m looking for a starting point.

  4. When using bands on the bench, with long bands you have to double them up I’m guessing because of length? (Looking to order bands right now), also for the chart listing tensions, do you just double the length to figure out a doubled up band tension? Ex. If it is 43 inches to the top of your bench press, it would be 86 inches total tension for the doubled up band. Just wondering if the tension makes any weird changes being doubled up, or if that simple assumption is true.

Thanks for the help

184

[quote]pbclax1 wrote:

[quote]pbclax1 wrote:

[quote]Chicksan wrote:

[quote]pbclax1 wrote:

[quote]Chicksan wrote:
During the Intensification Phase, the point is to basically kill yourself. 6RM’s for me were done on both days, but for different exercises. ME Day may be CG Floor Press and DE Day would have been a shoulder press or something like that. Beat yourself into the the dirt with as much weight as you can for a max of 5-6 reps and then go eat a large pizza with some bread sticks. Sorry it wasnt as specific as STB’s but it works[/quote]
Hahaha, specifics were not needed! Makes perfect sense, thanks man.

How would things then be modified for the Transformation Phase?[/quote]

My answer is probably going to be a bit different due to the fact that I havent competed in a while and due to getting married, I dont have one planned. I basically run 5 weeks of Accumulation, 2 weeks of Intensification then one week of Transformation, then repeat. During my Transformation, its basically “heavy but not to the point of failure.” I pick weights I know I can get, even if I were on my death bed. I do this for a week, just to give my mind and body a bit of rest and then its Accumulation time again. [/quote]
Thanks for the input Chicksan![/quote]
STB or Chicksan, going back to the repeated efforts. Would you use the same 6RM exercise each week for the entire intensification cycle? I.e.) say ME upper you do a 6RM close grip and DE upper you do a 6RM military press, would you do those same things the next week and try to beat previous 6RM? Same question for ME/DE lower.
[/quote]

A couple previous questions I had STB, would like your thoughts.

185

I need some ideas for assistance lower body work during the accumulation phase. I know STB suggests be really focused with dumbbells and avoid barbells. That is easy to do for Upper body but im drawing a blank for lower body.

186

[quote]Vladamir wrote:
I need some ideas for assistance lower body work during the accumulation phase. I know STB suggests be really focused with dumbbells and avoid barbells. That is easy to do for Upper body but im drawing a blank for lower body. [/quote]

Real easy actually.

-Goblet squats
-rdl’s w/dbs
-sldls’s w/dbs
-one leg variations of DL’s with db’s
-kettlebells
-db lunges
-back extensions
-hanging leg raises
-6 inches
-weighted crunches
-machines (like leg press, leg curls, etc
-one leg squats (I can only do these to a high box or with lots of band assistance without my hamstring balling up and straining itself)
-swiss ball leg curls

There’s more, but that oughta do ya.

187

Trying to stay up on this. Having all of my responses moderated is frusterating to say the least.

188

[quote]pbclax1 wrote:

[quote]pbclax1 wrote:

[quote]pbclax1 wrote:

[quote]Chicksan wrote:

[quote]pbclax1 wrote:

[quote]Chicksan wrote:
During the Intensification Phase, the point is to basically kill yourself. 6RM’s for me were done on both days, but for different exercises. ME Day may be CG Floor Press and DE Day would have been a shoulder press or something like that. Beat yourself into the the dirt with as much weight as you can for a max of 5-6 reps and then go eat a large pizza with some bread sticks. Sorry it wasnt as specific as STB’s but it works[/quote]
Hahaha, specifics were not needed! Makes perfect sense, thanks man.

How would things then be modified for the Transformation Phase?[/quote]

My answer is probably going to be a bit different due to the fact that I havent competed in a while and due to getting married, I dont have one planned. I basically run 5 weeks of Accumulation, 2 weeks of Intensification then one week of Transformation, then repeat. During my Transformation, its basically “heavy but not to the point of failure.” I pick weights I know I can get, even if I were on my death bed. I do this for a week, just to give my mind and body a bit of rest and then its Accumulation time again. [/quote]
Thanks for the input Chicksan![/quote]
STB or Chicksan, going back to the repeated efforts. Would you use the same 6RM exercise each week for the entire intensification cycle? I.e.) say ME upper you do a 6RM close grip and DE upper you do a 6RM military press, would you do those same things the next week and try to beat previous 6RM? Same question for ME/DE lower.
[/quote]

A couple previous questions I had STB, would like your thoughts.[/quote]

You can cycle unlimited variaitons for the 6rms. Just keep track of them somehow and always try to beat your records. It takes a while to figure out which assistance exercises actually hlep get you stronger. I know as my 6rm on RDL’s goes up, so does my competition deadlift. I would never, ever use that as a ME lift but, for the 6-10 rep range, it is perfect for developing my weaknesses.

If you are hitting a true 6rm, then there is no way on earth you will break it the following week. You can mimic it with a variaiton to hit your weaknesses, but the same exercise will feel like a big piece of shit. For example, instead of hitting a 6rm on a two board two weeks in a row. Do a 2 board week 1 and a floor press week 2. Basically the same ROM but completely different exercises.

Does that help?

189

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]Vladamir wrote:
I need some ideas for assistance lower body work during the accumulation phase. I know STB suggests be really focused with dumbbells and avoid barbells. That is easy to do for Upper body but im drawing a blank for lower body. [/quote]

Real easy actually.

-Goblet squats
-rdl’s w/dbs
-sldls’s w/dbs
-one leg variations of DL’s with db’s
-kettlebells
-db lunges
-back extensions
-hanging leg raises
-6 inches
-weighted crunches
-machines (like leg press, leg curls, etc
-one leg squats (I can only do these to a high box or with lots of band assistance without my hamstring balling up and straining itself)
-swiss ball leg curls

There’s more, but that oughta do ya.
[/quote]

Everything he said is fucking awesome.

190

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]pbclax1 wrote:

[quote]pbclax1 wrote:

[quote]pbclax1 wrote:

[quote]Chicksan wrote:

[quote]pbclax1 wrote:

[quote]Chicksan wrote:
During the Intensification Phase, the point is to basically kill yourself. 6RM’s for me were done on both days, but for different exercises. ME Day may be CG Floor Press and DE Day would have been a shoulder press or something like that. Beat yourself into the the dirt with as much weight as you can for a max of 5-6 reps and then go eat a large pizza with some bread sticks. Sorry it wasnt as specific as STB’s but it works[/quote]
Hahaha, specifics were not needed! Makes perfect sense, thanks man.

How would things then be modified for the Transformation Phase?[/quote]

My answer is probably going to be a bit different due to the fact that I havent competed in a while and due to getting married, I dont have one planned. I basically run 5 weeks of Accumulation, 2 weeks of Intensification then one week of Transformation, then repeat. During my Transformation, its basically “heavy but not to the point of failure.” I pick weights I know I can get, even if I were on my death bed. I do this for a week, just to give my mind and body a bit of rest and then its Accumulation time again. [/quote]
Thanks for the input Chicksan![/quote]
STB or Chicksan, going back to the repeated efforts. Would you use the same 6RM exercise each week for the entire intensification cycle? I.e.) say ME upper you do a 6RM close grip and DE upper you do a 6RM military press, would you do those same things the next week and try to beat previous 6RM? Same question for ME/DE lower.
[/quote]

A couple previous questions I had STB, would like your thoughts.[/quote]

You can cycle unlimited variaitons for the 6rms. Just keep track of them somehow and always try to beat your records. It takes a while to figure out which assistance exercises actually hlep get you stronger. I know as my 6rm on RDL’s goes up, so does my competition deadlift. I would never, ever use that as a ME lift but, for the 6-10 rep range, it is perfect for developing my weaknesses.

If you are hitting a true 6rm, then there is no way on earth you will break it the following week. You can mimic it with a variaiton to hit your weaknesses, but the same exercise will feel like a big piece of shit. For example, instead of hitting a 6rm on a two board two weeks in a row. Do a 2 board week 1 and a floor press week 2. Basically the same ROM but completely different exercises.

Does that help?[/quote]
Yep, that is awesome. Just think up something different each day of each week, keep a record of it, come back to it evenutally and break it…repeat.

191

[quote]BecometheFuse wrote:
Ok, I have a couple of questions

  1. In the westside book of methods I don’t really see much about the different blocks. This thread is the first place I saw the accumulation and the intensification blocks. Can anyone direct me to a source that has some writings about these?[/quote]

http://www.westside-barbell.com/articles/programming-organization/

192

Took some maxes with mixed results but I think I know why:

405 previous max
385 one taken today, went for 410 and got stuck in the bottom

I think was from too much front squat and SSB squatting instead of back squat variations. Basically need to get my ass stronger because I knew I could’ve had it if I could just get 2inches higher.

I think I’ll incorporate some paused goblet squats for RE during my accumulation block.

For Intensity, I was thinking of doing some paused front and back squats and straight bar GMs in addition to regular front squats (won’t have access to SSB bar next block).

Will do more bent over row variations to make up for not having a SSB.

  1. Previous max of 275
    When warming up for bench, when I got to 245 (last warm up set), my right shoulder popped forward on the bottom of the ascent. Tried again and the same thing happened, but it felt weird and uncomfortable so I just quit right there so I wouldn’t give myself an RC injury that would take months to get better.

I think the ultra-wides are just too much for my shoulders, going to drop them.

I’m going to narrow my grip from middle finger on the rings to pinky on the rings. Going to do lots of db floor presses and db neutral press for accumulation for RE. For Intensity, CGBP and accomodating resistance from a slightly wider for MEs and paused and non-paused CGBP and floor press for RE and variations.

Even try the ghetto sling shot (double the mini band with an x in the center and put around arms near shoulder).

  1. Previous of 455
    455 was slow but very smooth and not hard. 475 flew off the ground, started slowing around knee and nearly stopped at lockout but I followed through and got it probably making an ass of myself with the straining and grunting lol. I think this was do to getting my legs and back stronger, but lockout was so hard because as mentioned my hips seem to be the limiting factor this around. I was actually impressed by how strong my back was in the lift. It was just a solid nearly straight lever.

Some other issues is that I didn’t deload as well this time. Also, finals stress is getting to me. I also wasn’t jacked up on spike this time as the last time I tested.

Nothing spectacular this time, but I think I learned a lot.

Lemme know if any of ya’ll have any suggestions.

193

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

Even try the ghetto sling shot (double the mini band with an x in the center and put around arms near shoulder).

[/quote]

LOL I thought I was the only who ever did this.

It’s a bitch to get in place though if you’re using a wide grip.

194

Fletch, I made the same mistake in my squat max effort training. Box squatting and reverse band box squatting will be my main lifts from here on out. Front box squats just didn’t carry over at all, and I need to go down to only one main deadlift variation instead of two.

I probably won’t get back to Westside training until I’m back in school next fall, or maybe after my next meet in July.

STB, I and others have already asked something similar before, but what would you think of periodically replacing a true max effort day with something similar to the rep/set scheme laid out in Wendler’s 5/3/1? I tend to make pretty good progress on multiple reps of squats. Or, as another idea, what about doing a squat variation for a 6rm after the main lift on the max effort day?

For example:
Main lift: deficit deadlift-set 1rm
Set 6rm in box squat
Assistance work

Rotating both the main lift and the 6rm lift, obviously. Would doing a 6rm for a special exercise be suggested, or would that probably be too much for somebody?

195

I’m certain STB has recommended/used exactly that method. ^

196

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
Fletch, I made the same mistake in my squat max effort training. Box squatting and reverse band box squatting will be my main lifts from here on out. Front box squats just didn’t carry over at all, and I need to go down to only one main deadlift variation instead of two.[/quote]

I did like the leg strength and pop off the ground for deadlifts that doing front squats gave me, I just think I need to do paused variations of it and more back squatting. It also helped beef up my upper back which was nice. I’m almost certain if I had just a tiny bit more hip strength, the weight would’ve flew up on the squat.

Basically, I don’t wanna throw the baby out with the bathwater. Also, I like box squats against bands as opposed to with the bands (reverse band). It’s a variation I think keeps me really tight and really forces me explode up.

One thing I was thinking of doing for my hip-back joint was using a heeled shoe. I’ve used shoes like that for variation and it’s never more than 5-10lb or one rep off flat shoe PRs set within a similar time span. The last week of my intensity phase, I got a left side glute-back strain and before that a hamstring strain on my right hamstring near my knee. Nothing big, but it I did have to wait longer than my workout was scheduled.

197

I’d recommend deep paused ultra wide (as muc has your flexibility can allow) squats for the hips. Do wonders for me

198

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
Fletch, I made the same mistake in my squat max effort training. Box squatting and reverse band box squatting will be my main lifts from here on out. Front box squats just didn’t carry over at all, and I need to go down to only one main deadlift variation instead of two.

I probably won’t get back to Westside training until I’m back in school next fall, or maybe after my next meet in July.

STB, I and others have already asked something similar before, but what would you think of periodically replacing a true max effort day with something similar to the rep/set scheme laid out in Wendler’s 5/3/1? I tend to make pretty good progress on multiple reps of squats. Or, as another idea, what about doing a squat variation for a 6rm after the main lift on the max effort day?

For example:
Main lift: deficit deadlift-set 1rm
Set 6rm in box squat
Assistance work

Rotating both the main lift and the 6rm lift, obviously. Would doing a 6rm for a special exercise be suggested, or would that probably be too much for somebody?[/quote]

If you go back and look at the blocks that STB has layed out, you are really only hitting true maxes for 2-3 weeks during the Intensification Phase. I think during this phase, you would be better off just hitting your 1rm, save the rep work for Accumulation. This is just my opinion though, nothing really to back it up except my own twisted thoughts, lol. Good luck

199

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:

[quote]BecometheFuse wrote:
Ok, I have a couple of questions

  1. In the westside book of methods I don’t really see much about the different blocks. This thread is the first place I saw the accumulation and the intensification blocks. Can anyone direct me to a source that has some writings about these?[/quote]

http://www.westside-barbell.com/articles/programming-organization/[/quote]

If I could, Id also like to suggest these as well:

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/sports-training/prilepin’s-chart/

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/powerlifting-articles/a-practical-guide-for-implementing-block-periodization-for-powerlifting/

The one thing that ive done that has helped the most is memorized bits and pieces from this thread, the most important being STB’s first few post. Those posts make this system extremely easy to understand. I honestly cant say enough about it. My squat jumped from 500 to 570 in 7 weeks, and I think the Accumulation Phase had a lot to do with it. I would have never in my life thought to do 20+ sets for time like he suggested, that sick fuck, lol. Read the threads, then re-read it…when your eyes go crossed, get some drops and then read it again, your total will climb. Ok Im done

200

[quote]Chicksan wrote:

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:

[quote]BecometheFuse wrote:
Ok, I have a couple of questions

  1. In the westside book of methods I don’t really see much about the different blocks. This thread is the first place I saw the accumulation and the intensification blocks. Can anyone direct me to a source that has some writings about these?[/quote]

http://www.westside-barbell.com/articles/programming-organization/[/quote]

If I could, Id also like to suggest these as well:

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/sports-training/prilepin’s-chart/

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/powerlifting-articles/a-practical-guide-for-implementing-block-periodization-for-powerlifting/

The one thing that ive done that has helped the most is memorized bits and pieces from this thread, the most important being STB’s first few post. Those posts make this system extremely easy to understand. I honestly cant say enough about it. My squat jumped from 500 to 570 in 7 weeks, and I think the Accumulation Phase had a lot to do with it. I would have never in my life thought to do 20+ sets for time like he suggested, that sick fuck, lol. Read the threads, then re-read it…when your eyes go crossed, get some drops and then read it again, your total will climb. Ok Im done [/quote]

I agree . this thread is the easiest source of information I’ve ever read . I tried a WS template a while back , and it always felt like I was doing something wrong . went to 531…yada yada . was thinking about coming back when Storm first mentioned something about starting a WS thread . bingo…perfect timing .