The Predator Program

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[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Your deadlift setup needs work. Don’t jerk the bar. That just looks awful. In the long run, your joints will hate you for this, particularly if you ever decide to lift something heavy. Get tight first. Your arms should be fully extended before you initiate the pull. Don’t start with your arms bent. It may seem like it’s helping you get momentum off the ground, but I can assure you it’s not.[/quote]

Deadlift critique noted. Never really thought of that one before. Anxious to see if that improves things next time.

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
It’s pretty clear at this point that you will not ever become strong doing what you’re doing, but there’s something impressive about your dedication. What you’re doing clearly isn’t easy. But I guess that’s where my problem with this whole thing is. The only reason your performance is impressive in any sense is the conditions you’ve imposed on yourself. If I didn’t know you weren’t eating, I would see absolutely nothing noteworthy here.[/quote]

Part of the experiment and part I’m really curious to see is how training for these conditions impacts my performance returning to a normal diet. Think of it like swinging a bat with donuts or prepping for a max lift with a supra max hold first. I’ve also thought about how much ease of performance impacts conditioning because after all isn’t the general goal of training to push ourselves to failure points? If you can reach that failure point quicker or slower does it really make a difference?

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
In my world, conditions are excuses. I don’t want to be strong ‘for a guy under 200 lbs’ or ‘strong for my height’ or ‘strong for a skinny guy’ or ‘strong for only having trained for X years’. Ultimately, I just want to be strong, no caveats. But of course you’re entitled to your own opinion, and I respect the fact that you feel it’s important in your own life to put this sort of diet/training to the test to see if it can deliver results.[/quote]

Completely agree. My goal isn’t to be 160 lbs, but I’ve heard a lot of people recommend cutting before bulking and I usually carry more than 12% body fat. Right now I’m going to see if this may be part of what’s inhibiting muscle gains. At the end of this I should be down to 8% or less body fat and I’ll start putting weight back on with a more complete diet and a standard routine.

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[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Man the thing that sucks is I feel you’re getting a grip on your training, Squatting properly and resetting your DL’s to work on form. I’m not sure how often your training but rest pausing some sets of DL’s, Bench, and then some auxiliary work like cable rows seems like a decent set-up for someone to put on some strength. But I feel like you’re really not reaping much because of the inconsistencies in diet.

I’m still confused on what the goals of this are… strength? size? fat loss?[/quote]

The main goal is just to observe what happens, but I’m also trying to get down to 5% - 8% body fat to try to do a lean bulk with a more complete diet and traditional hypertrophy methodology.

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Jerking the bar is an easy way to tear a bicep especially if you’re using a mixed grip.

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[quote]twojarslave wrote:
I’m glad you aren’t sick, injured or dead. Three questions:

  1. Are you planning on doing a productive diet and exercise program when you conclude the Predator Program?
  2. Do you dream about spinach, kale or potatoes?
  3. Have you considered growing a beard and wearing an airbrushed wolf t-shirt while you lift? I’ve found this to be quite effective as a stand-alone measure. It would dovetail with your training ethos quite well, I think.[/quote]

Me too!

  1. Yes.
  2. No, particularly not potatoes (I did a 4 week single food source diet experiment on them and I found out my body doesn’t like potatoes very much).
  3. I have not, but I growl at people and piss all over the place.
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[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Jerking the bar is an easy way to tear a bicep especially if you’re using a mixed grip. [/quote]

I was using a overhand grip for about the first 30, but the jerking has been noted. It’s something I never really realized I was doing. Thanks!

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[quote]PureNsanity wrote:
…but I’m also trying to get down to 5% - 8% body fat to try to do a lean bulk with a more complete diet and traditional hypertrophy methodology.
[/quote]
That is not going to happen with your current set up. Sorry.

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[quote]PureNsanity wrote:

Part of the experiment and part I’m really curious to see is how training for these conditions impacts my performance returning to a normal diet. Think of it like swinging a bat with donuts or prepping for a max lift with a supra max hold first. I’ve also thought about how much ease of performance impacts conditioning because after all isn’t the general goal of training to push ourselves to failure points? If you can reach that failure point quicker or slower does it really make a difference?

[/quote]

I think a more appropriate analogy would be a competitive bodybuilder ‘rebounding’ after a show. Many competitive bodybuilders talk about how much they’re able to gain in the weeks and months that directly follow strict dieting. So there’s definitely something there.

I disagree about the goals of training, although training goals do vary from person to person. My goal in the gym is not to reach failure in my training. My goal is to increase my work capacity as much as possible while limiting the risk of injuries that would prevent me from training in the future. That include my capacity to perform a max lift, and it includes my capacity to perform submaximal lifts for repetitions.

My goals do not include actually reaching failure in my training. Failure is reserved primarily for competition. Failure often doesn’t result in a positive training effect. A couple examples: The last time I hit a max squat, it was 405. This was nearly a year ago. I know my max has increased since then, but I haven’t tested it in the gym since last September.

Likewise, I performed a 405 deadlift for 10 reps about a month ago. I had a few more reps in the tank, but I did not believe that training to actual failure would result in the desired training effect. 10 reps was sufficient stimulation for growth, while limiting the potential for injury.

All that being said, I do believe that there is a place in training for using unfavorable leverages, particularly if you train for hypertrophy/aesthetics. Bodybuilders are well served by getting the most growth using the lightest weights possible. For me, this translates to performing things like seated, strict dumbbell curls on an incline bench.

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[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]PureNsanity wrote:
…but I’m also trying to get down to 5% - 8% body fat to try to do a lean bulk with a more complete diet and traditional hypertrophy methodology.
[/quote]
That is not going to happen with your current set up. Sorry.[/quote]

I agree. This is not a great fat-loss diet.

309

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]PureNsanity wrote:

Part of the experiment and part I’m really curious to see is how training for these conditions impacts my performance returning to a normal diet. Think of it like swinging a bat with donuts or prepping for a max lift with a supra max hold first. I’ve also thought about how much ease of performance impacts conditioning because after all isn’t the general goal of training to push ourselves to failure points? If you can reach that failure point quicker or slower does it really make a difference?

[/quote]

I think a more appropriate analogy would be a competitive bodybuilder ‘rebounding’ after a show. Many competitive bodybuilders talk about how much they’re able to gain in the weeks and months that directly follow strict dieting. So there’s definitely something there.

I disagree about the goals of training, although training goals do vary from person to person. My goal in the gym is not to reach failure in my training. My goal is to increase my work capacity as much as possible while limiting the risk of injuries that would prevent me from training in the future. That include my capacity to perform a max lift, and it includes my capacity to perform submaximal lifts for repetitions.

My goals do not include actually reaching failure in my training. Failure is reserved primarily for competition. Failure often doesn’t result in a positive training effect. A couple examples: The last time I hit a max squat, it was 405. This was nearly a year ago. I know my max has increased since then, but I haven’t tested it in the gym since last September.

Likewise, I performed a 405 deadlift for 10 reps about a month ago. I had a few more reps in the tank, but I did not believe that training to actual failure would result in the desired training effect. 10 reps was sufficient stimulation for growth, while limiting the potential for injury.

All that being said, I do believe that there is a place in training for using unfavorable leverages, particularly if you train for hypertrophy/aesthetics. Bodybuilders are well served by getting the most growth using the lightest weights possible. For me, this translates to performing things like seated, strict dumbbell curls on an incline bench.[/quote]

Just to clarify when I say “failure point” I’m not talking about true failure. Perhaps exhaustion or stopping point is a more appropriate term. This may be not being able to hold form, maintain a particular tempo, etc. Whatever the conditions are to stop a set.

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[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]PureNsanity wrote:
…but I’m also trying to get down to 5% - 8% body fat to try to do a lean bulk with a more complete diet and traditional hypertrophy methodology.
[/quote]
That is not going to happen with your current set up. Sorry.[/quote]

I know I’ll be able to get to 8% and I should be getting close to that now. Currently I’m down 12 lbs and my weigh ins are all fasted to eliminate water and glycogen weight fluctuations. Seeing how I’ve got 50 days to go and am currently losing 2 lbs a week what are your reasons to believe I won’t be able to reduce fat to 5%?

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[quote]PureNsanity wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]PureNsanity wrote:
…but I’m also trying to get down to 5% - 8% body fat to try to do a lean bulk with a more complete diet and traditional hypertrophy methodology.
[/quote]
That is not going to happen with your current set up. Sorry.[/quote]

I know I’ll be able to get to 8% and I should be getting close to that now. Currently I’m down 12 lbs and my weigh ins are all fasted to eliminate water and glycogen weight fluctuations. Seeing how I’ve got 50 days to go and am currently losing 2 lbs a week what are your reasons to believe I won’t be able to reduce fat to 5%?
[/quote]

  1. Your diet and training is terrible.
  2. Two pounds a week is too much weight to be losing if you aren’t a total fatty.
  3. 5% BF is practically stage ready bodybuilder levels. You do not have enough muscle mass to support that low of a bf%

8%bf is absolutely ripped, most people have no clue about what actual BF%'s look like… post a current photo.

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[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]PureNsanity wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]PureNsanity wrote:
…but I’m also trying to get down to 5% - 8% body fat to try to do a lean bulk with a more complete diet and traditional hypertrophy methodology.
[/quote]
That is not going to happen with your current set up. Sorry.[/quote]

I know I’ll be able to get to 8% and I should be getting close to that now. Currently I’m down 12 lbs and my weigh ins are all fasted to eliminate water and glycogen weight fluctuations. Seeing how I’ve got 50 days to go and am currently losing 2 lbs a week what are your reasons to believe I won’t be able to reduce fat to 5%?
[/quote]

  1. Your diet and training is terrible.
  2. Two pounds a week is too much weight to be losing if you aren’t a total fatty.
  3. 5% BF is practically stage ready bodybuilder levels. You do not have enough muscle mass to support that low of a bf%

8%bf is absolutely ripped, most people have no clue about what actual BF%'s look like… post a current photo. [/quote]

  1. You’re going to have to elaborate how my diet and training is terrible for weight loss. I average about 2,000 calories and 195g of protein per day. Since I’m eating at least 1 lbs of organ meat with every eating day I’m getting a great supply of nutrients. What am I missing from my diet for weight loss? What is my training missing to lose body fat?
  2. So I’m losing too weight to fast now but I won’t be able to lose fat later?
  3. Okay this may be valid. The lowest that I’ve ever gotten before was 8% verified by DXA and that was when I brought my weight all the way down to around 145 lbs (May 2012 and March 2013 for other experiments). Part of how I thought I would judge success of this experiment is if I was able to maintain more lean mass during the cut and get below 8%.

I posted a pic that I literally just took. If I had to take a guess I’d say 10% judging by my prior DXA scans and my current body state. If I’m at 10% that’d mean 3.5 lbs of pure fat to get to 8%. Historically at 163 I’m around 12% body fat (again verified by DXA). If I was at 12% now that’d mean 7 lbs to go. So let’s just say that it’s somewhere between 3.5 lbs and 7 lbs to get to 8%. I know I can do that in 50 more days…

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[quote]PureNsanity wrote:
I posted a pic that I literally just took.
[/quote]
This pic from your profile that says “day 40 of the challenge”?

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definitely not 10% in that photo.

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Fibers ?

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[quote]gregron wrote:
This pic from your profile that says “day 40 of the challenge”?[/quote]

And today is day 40 of the experiment. I’m doing this for 90 days. Did you read the opening page explaining the experiment?

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[quote]kamui wrote:

Fibers ? [/quote]

Fiber isn’t particularly critical to weight loss. It can help with particular diets, but non-essential.

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Here’s one of me on 04/28/2012 at 150 lbs and 10.8% body fat (measured via DXA) for comparison. So yeah I might be closer to 11%, but the fat levels seem similar to me.

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[quote]PureNsanity wrote:
Here’s one of me on 04/28/2012 at 150 lbs and 10.8% body fat (measured via DXA) for comparison. So yeah I might be closer to 11%, but the fat levels seem similar to me.[/quote]

You look like a holocaust survivor.

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I’m beginning to admire your efforts as well. But based on your current pic i respectfully urge you to consider putting the brakes on this.