[quote]sput79 wrote: @CT: If I understand you correctly your preferred method to teach the power clean you would feel the bar ride all the way up the thighs to hip crease then jump under the bar to catch it? .[/quote]
That is NOT correct. You bring it into the hips, from there you explode up to give momentum to the bar, THEN you jump down.
If you bring the bar into the hips and try to go under, there is NO WAY you will come even close to catching it. Someone with good technique will catch a squat clean roughly at the height his navel would be when standing up, which is 6-8" above the hip crease for most.
Now, you have to pull the bar at least to this height to have a chance to catch it, BUT it still needs to have some upward momentum when it reaches that point and you start to go down otherwise the bar will beat you down.
BTW, in a power clean you do not jump down into a full squat since a “power” clean means that you are catching the bar with the knees bent not more than 90 degrees. Catching it all the way down is squat clean, or simply called a clean.
[quote]Ricochet wrote:
CT: Training for the Muscle Snatch (aka Continuous Clean and Press)…
I have been focusing on high pulls (pulling above the mouth), muscle cleans, military presses, push presses, ‘scrap the rack’ overhead press, and Klokov presses. Regarding the high pulls and cleans am I on the right track pulling the bar higher (to above my mouth) and cleaning with no knee bend?[/quote]
I was digging through some old material and high-pulls to the upper lip were mentioned a few times as one of the top shoulder-builders out there (in addition to military press, push press, and behind-the-neck presses). If I remember right, it was mentioned in Bob Hoffman’s “Broad Shoulders” book, as well as in Charles A Smith’s “Press” articles.
Hoffman was intimately involved with the US Weightlifting team at the time, and Charles Smith coached Doug Hepburn to his world record press, just to lend some credibility to those names.
For what that’s worth.[/quote]
I appreciate the reply.
I think the high pulling above my mouth (to the eyes) and the muscle cleans are helping with my muscle snatches; as well as Push Presses, Klokov Presses, and Thrusters.
Hi CT. Last week I posted a video to get some help on the Power Clean & Push Press. I was doing several things wrong including the following:
"1. In the starting position your chest seems caved in instead of rotated upward.
When the bar passes the knees your legs are already fully straightened out.
3.You need to catch the bar on the shoulders not hanging above them. Really the key is to aim for your throat, the bar should actually touch the throat as soon as you catch it (not catch it and bring it to the throat) and your elbows should be rotated upwards."
So I did some adjustments and uploaded a video. The first lift is from last week, where I was doing things wrong. The other 2 lifts in the video are where I made adjustments. Let me know what you think I could improve on. Thank you so much coach.
Dude! That’s some amazing improvements! As close as perfect in applying my recommendations as possible without me being in person. I am impressed!
In the 225 you explode up a tad early (when the bar is a bit too low on the thighs) which causes the bar to be a bit forward which explains why your hips/knees are pushed forward in the catch (the hips should be back behind the shoulders) and why you step forward.
This is the most common mistake when a bar feels heavier than you are used to in your hands. You do not trust your pull because of the “oh sh*t, this is heavy, I need to explode right now or I’ll never make it” phenomenon!
Do not thrust the feeling of the bar in your hands. Be patient in bringing the bar closer to the hips THEN explode up.
I would also recommend using a somewhat cocked wrist grip (knuckles pointing to the floor) which will help keep the bar closer to the body and the hips.
On the push press, just be careful not to let the knees and hips move forward when you dip down. That is a bad position to transfer for to the bar. Focus on keeping your hips back (in the same line as they are at the start) and on pushing your knees out instead of forward.
Otherwise great progress.
EDIT: Just noticed one thing… on the 225 you lose your lower back arch a bit, which makes your weight shift forward more on the toes, which explains why you felt the need to explode too soon and why the bar ended up forward.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Dude! That’s some amazing improvements! As close as perfect in applying my recommendations as possible without me being in person. I am impressed!
In the 225 you explode up a tad early (when the bar is a bit too low on the thighs) which causes the bar to be a bit forward which explains why your hips/knees are pushed forward in the catch (the hips should be back behind the shoulders) and why you step forward.
This is the most common mistake when a bar feels heavier than you are used to in your hands. You do not trust your pull because of the “oh sh*t, this is heavy, I need to explode right now or I’ll never make it” phenomenon!
Do not thrust the feeling of the bar in your hands. Be patient in bringing the bar closer to the hips THEN explode up.
I would also recommend using a somewhat cocked wrist grip (knuckles pointing to the floor) which will help keep the bar closer to the body and the hips.
Otherwise great progress.
[/quote]
CT, thanks a lot! That means a lot coming from you!
Regarding the 225, you are 100% right. I mentally think of crap, its 225 and going to be heavy I just need to power it up! I just mentally need to get over it. I had that problem with 225 bench long time ago and now 225 is nothing. I will keep working on this. I only practice these once a week, but I will it do it twice a week now and come back next week with some more videos.
Regarding the 225, you are 100% right. I mentally think of crap, its 225 and going to be heavy I just need to power it up! I just mentally need to get over it. I had that problem with 225 bench long time ago and now 225 is nothing. I will keep working on this. I only practice these once a week, but I will it do it twice a week now and come back next week with some more videos.
Thanks again. [/quote]
I know, I see it at least 20 times a week!!!
But honestly, despite those slight technical issues, 225 looked VERY easy and like you had a lot more in you… so do not stress about that number.
Regarding the 225, you are 100% right. I mentally think of crap, its 225 and going to be heavy I just need to power it up! I just mentally need to get over it. I had that problem with 225 bench long time ago and now 225 is nothing. I will keep working on this. I only practice these once a week, but I will it do it twice a week now and come back next week with some more videos.
Thanks again. [/quote]
I know, I see it at least 20 times a week!!!
But honestly, despite those slight technical issues, 225 looked VERY easy and like you had a lot more in you… so do not stress about that number.[/quote]
Got it! I always print advice like this and put it around my house. I’ll keep what you said in mind, it has always helped.
OK, I have to ask. Is it better to use a weight where the press portion is not a grind, focusing on the speed of it or should you just knock 'em out?
really like these. I’m older and I think I could get to liking these. The width of the grip…with upper arms parallel to the ground, should the upper arms be perpendicular or there abouts?
Very nice Bassip21… much, much smoother than my 100-105kg Clean and Push Press. My Clean is a disaster as I muscle clean more than power clean; I have very slight knee bend when I catch the bar. I need to work on that but I am currently working on getting my Muscle Snatch up.
[quote]jppage wrote:
CT I tried the continuous clean and press this morning Instead of clean and push press for my morning HFS/practice session and that’s a very powerful lift.Is there any way to use this in a layer set up or no.I just wondering where it could be placed.Thank’s CT.[/quote]
Ramp up to a 1RN
Then 3 sets of 3 reps with 85-90% of the 1RM (5 sec. rest between each repetition)
Then 10 sets of 2 reps with 60% of the 1RM done in as little time as possible
That’s what I do[/quote]
This week i replaced 5/3/1 military press day with clean to pushpress, layered like CT outlined it in this post.
wierd thing happened. my 1rm military press is 70 kg. nothing whopping about it. But when i ramped up yesterday i got up to 85kg clean and pushpress.
Felt awsome after the layer and did some beach work (dips/chins) and went home.
gonna try layer on box-squats, sumo-dl’s and dec/inc-bench aswell.
What is the relationship between the press (either continental/olympic press or strict) and the push press?
My goal is for my press to go up. How does the push press help with that?
The push press seems like a sliding scale between a press and a jerk, and it seems like it would start becoming more like a jerk as you got better at putting more weight up. And, thus, not really helping much with the press itself.
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
OK, I have to ask. Is it better to use a weight where the press portion is not a grind, focusing on the speed of it or should you just knock 'em out?
really like these. I’m older and I think I could get to liking these. The width of the grip…with upper arms parallel to the ground, should the upper arms be perpendicular or there abouts?
[/quote]
We can have a decrease in speed but not to the point where you have to get slightly out of position to make the lift.
If you are talking about the muscle snatch you can use either a wide grip (snatch grip) in which the bar would be at the hip pocket level when standing up with the barbell in your ends like a finished deadlift position. For most it will be just outside the power rings. If using a clean-grip I suggest 2-3" wiider than shoulders or midway between the power ring and the smooth of the bar (that is, have the same amount of knurling between the outer edge of your hand and the power ring and the inside edge of your hand and the smooth in the middle of the bar).
[quote]LoRez wrote:
What is the relationship between the press (either continental/olympic press or strict) and the push press?
My goal is for my press to go up. How does the push press help with that?
The push press seems like a sliding scale between a press and a jerk, and it seems like it would start becoming more like a jerk as you got better at putting more weight up. And, thus, not really helping much with the press itself.[/quote]
While I personally prefer the push press to the strict press as a measure of strength; if you are using the strict press as your golden movement then the push press would be to the press what rack pulls are to the deadlift, what pin or board presses are to the bench and what half squats are to full squats: mostly to overload the muscles involved but with a limited direct transfer because one important section of the movement is not getting strengthened.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
What is the relationship between the press (either continental/olympic press or strict) and the push press?
My goal is for my press to go up. How does the push press help with that?
The push press seems like a sliding scale between a press and a jerk, and it seems like it would start becoming more like a jerk as you got better at putting more weight up. And, thus, not really helping much with the press itself.[/quote]
While I personally prefer the push press to the strict press as a measure of strength; if you are using the strict press as your golden movement then the push press would be to the press what rack pulls are to the deadlift, what pin or board presses are to the bench and what half squats are to full squats: mostly to overload the muscles involved but with a limited direct transfer because one important section of the movement is not getting strengthened.[/quote]
So it’s like JM says about quarter/half reps. you get to tap into the strength of that area of movement that doesn’t get hit while using full rom/strict form since the weakest part of the movement dictates the max load for the lift when using strick form/full rom.
the wierd part is that i feel “bigger” after c&p workout than a strict OHP workout. well, gonna give that another 5-7 weeks before i descide if it will permanently replace the military.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
What is the relationship between the press (either continental/olympic press or strict) and the push press?
My goal is for my press to go up. How does the push press help with that?
The push press seems like a sliding scale between a press and a jerk, and it seems like it would start becoming more like a jerk as you got better at putting more weight up. And, thus, not really helping much with the press itself.[/quote]
While I personally prefer the push press to the strict press as a measure of strength; if you are using the strict press as your golden movement then the push press would be to the press what rack pulls are to the deadlift, what pin or board presses are to the bench and what half squats are to full squats: mostly to overload the muscles involved but with a limited direct transfer because one important section of the movement is not getting strengthened.[/quote]
So it’s like JM says about quarter/half reps. you get to tap into the strength of that area of movement that doesn’t get hit while using full rom/strict form since the weakest part of the movement dictates the max load for the lift when using strick form/full rom.
the wierd part is that i feel “bigger” after c&p workout than a strict OHP workout. well, gonna give that another 5-7 weeks before i descide if it will permanently replace the military.[/quote]
Well, the clean part involves a lot of muscles not involved in the strict press. So it is normal to feel bigger since more muscle will be activated.
At least on variations of the olympic lifts (which I consider the push press to be part of).