[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
CT - What is your preferred form for this movement to develop the beast/power look? Are there any videos/teaching cues you recommend? I’ve seen different variations of the movement so wanted to learn the optimal way to preform it. Thanks![/quote]
The two that have the greatest potential for causing growth are the power clean & push press and the second one is something I began playing with that shows A LOT of promise… I call it a continuous clean & press; although sometimes it is called a muscle clean & press and even mislabelled as a muscle snatch (e.g. there is a video of Koklyev soing 160 and one of him doing 170kg in that style… you can find it by searching for ‘koklyev muscle snatch’)… basically you do like a power clean but do not rack the bar on the shoulders… as soon as you finish the pull (which should be about mouth level) you rotate your elbwos down and press the barbell overhead.[/quote]
ct: sorry to cut in here but, wow, we used to do these a week or 2 out from the championship meets for max explosiveness.
we did cleans from hang, with a little 1/4 squat type catch and immediately used the push from that position. we called it “hang clean/jerk explosives” that was in the 70’s.
then we’d go out and throw the shot for distance in a somewhat “meet simulation style”
very stimulating! speed and explosion was the main focus. so the weight had to be as heavy as you can use while still accelerating. sort of like a “ka-poww” ka-booom, ah-ka-bam"
[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
CT - What is your preferred form for this movement to develop the beast/power look? Are there any videos/teaching cues you recommend? I’ve seen different variations of the movement so wanted to learn the optimal way to preform it. Thanks![/quote]
The two that have the greatest potential for causing growth are the power clean & push press and the second one is something I began playing with that shows A LOT of promise… I call it a continuous clean & press; although sometimes it is called a muscle clean & press and even mislabelled as a muscle snatch (e.g. there is a video of Koklyev soing 160 and one of him doing 170kg in that style… you can find it by searching for ‘koklyev muscle snatch’)… basically you do like a power clean but do not rack the bar on the shoulders… as soon as you finish the pull (which should be about mouth level) you rotate your elbwos down and press the barbell overhead.[/quote]
ct: sorry to cut in here but, wow, we used to do these a week or 2 out from the championship meets for max explosiveness.
we did cleans from hang, with a little 1/4 squat type catch and immediately used the push from that position. we called it “hang clean/jerk explosives” that was in the 70’s.
then we’d go out and throw the shot for distance in a somewhat “meet simulation style”
very stimulating! speed and explosion was the main focus. so the weight had to be as heavy as you can use while still accelerating. sort of like a “ka-poww” ka-booom, ah-ka-bam"[/quote]
Yes, from what I gather it is a pretty popular lift among throwers. Werner Gunthar used it during his “explosion” phase (he did 4 weeka accumulation, 4 weeks intensification, 4 weeks explosion cycles).
[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
CT - What is your preferred form for this movement to develop the beast/power look? Are there any videos/teaching cues you recommend? I’ve seen different variations of the movement so wanted to learn the optimal way to preform it. Thanks![/quote]
The two that have the greatest potential for causing growth are the power clean & push press and the second one is something I began playing with that shows A LOT of promise… I call it a continuous clean & press; although sometimes it is called a muscle clean & press and even mislabelled as a muscle snatch (e.g. there is a video of Koklyev soing 160 and one of him doing 170kg in that style… you can find it by searching for ‘koklyev muscle snatch’)… basically you do like a power clean but do not rack the bar on the shoulders… as soon as you finish the pull (which should be about mouth level) you rotate your elbwos down and press the barbell overhead.[/quote]
Have you pressing that way with a log? It’s been nicknamed the “Poundstone Method”. I would guess you get more growth out of it due to the increased tension pulling the log into you.
[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
CT - What is your preferred form for this movement to develop the beast/power look? Are there any videos/teaching cues you recommend? I’ve seen different variations of the movement so wanted to learn the optimal way to preform it. Thanks![/quote]
The two that have the greatest potential for causing growth are the power clean & push press and the second one is something I began playing with that shows A LOT of promise… I call it a continuous clean & press; although sometimes it is called a muscle clean & press and even mislabelled as a muscle snatch (e.g. there is a video of Koklyev soing 160 and one of him doing 170kg in that style… you can find it by searching for ‘koklyev muscle snatch’)… basically you do like a power clean but do not rack the bar on the shoulders… as soon as you finish the pull (which should be about mouth level) you rotate your elbwos down and press the barbell overhead.[/quote]
Have you pressing that way with a log? It’s been nicknamed the “Poundstone Method”. I would guess you get more growth out of it due to the increased tension pulling the log into you.
I’ve done it a few times with the log. I don’t like it. The center of mass of the object you are lifting is too far away, which takes away from the efficiency of the movement and you lift less weight (unless you use a lot of back bend, which I don’t like).
Strongmen obviously have to do it since it’s one of their events. But I do not like it as a training lift for maximum muscle.
@CT, Lower spine wise, would it not be better to do high pulls than push press? Afaik they banned the olympic press from olympics because it was horrible for the lower back. Obviously it’s not the same as push press, but what’s your intake?
power clean and push press. YES. I am a fan… and it will get your heart rate going like no other. Have been doing 2x clean + 1 jerk (similar enough) on the minute for 10 minutes, absolutely brutal if you pick the right weight.
CT - what is unique about the clean and catch portion of this movement that makes it good for the beast look? Is there somethingunique to the technically difficult combination of the clean/catch into press that makes it superior to just breaking it into a, for instance, push press and clean pull? Latter approach can use more weight as well…
[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
CT - what is unique about the clean and catch portion of this movement that makes it good for the beast look? Is there somethingunique to the technically difficult combination of the clean/catch into press that makes it superior to just breaking it into a, for instance, push press and clean pull? Latter approach can use more weight as well…[/quote]
[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
CT - what is unique about the clean and catch portion of this movement that makes it good for the beast look? Is there somethingunique to the technically difficult combination of the clean/catch into press that makes it superior to just breaking it into a, for instance, push press and clean pull? Latter approach can use more weight as well…[/quote]
If you are talking about a normal power clean & press, it’s not the catch that is ‘‘special’’ but rather the fact that doing both in one lift makes it a complete movement (more muscles and functions involved in the same exercise) and that post was about which one was the most complete lift.
Furthermore. from experience I have found that (unless someone doesn’t have an ok clean technique) people are stronger in the push press (or strict press) when they do it as part of the clean & press than when they do it from racks (without cleaning the weight first). My theory is that the clean portion potentiates the muscles for the press.
BUT I also talked about the muscle snatch (with a snatch grip) or clean-grip muscle snatch (or continuous press) which, I actually found to be a better ‘‘hypertrophy’’ lift that is also gentler on the body and easier to learn.
(1) The muscle snatch with a clean grip (or continuous clean & press) doesn’t actually include a catch, so there can’t be anything ‘‘special’’ about it
(2) You know, it’s hard to explain… as a former olympic lifter I always regarded the muscle snatch and muscle snatch with a clean grip (continuous clean and press) as a poor man variation of the olympic lift, AT BEST an okay way to warm-up for the real thing… until I tried it! I reasoned like you: why is it superior to a clean followed by a push press.
What I noticed is that when you do not rack the weight (esssentially you are pulling to your mouth than quickly rotating your elbows down and press up at the same time) the traps and whole delts are continously involved, stay under tension longer and since the rotator cuff muscles get activated it seems to be much gentler on the shoulders.
I also like that you go from power to strength in the same movement without any stopping.
I will include videos of the lift I’m talking about in the next post. I eentually will produce my own material to teach this movement.
[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
CT - What is your preferred form for this movement to develop the beast/power look? Are there any videos/teaching cues you recommend? I’ve seen different variations of the movement so wanted to learn the optimal way to preform it. Thanks![/quote]
The two that have the greatest potential for causing growth are the power clean & push press and the second one is something I began playing with that shows A LOT of promise… I call it a continuous clean & press; although sometimes it is called a muscle clean & press and even mislabelled as a muscle snatch (e.g. there is a video of Koklyev soing 160 and one of him doing 170kg in that style… you can find it by searching for ‘koklyev muscle snatch’)… basically you do like a power clean but do not rack the bar on the shoulders… as soon as you finish the pull (which should be about mouth level) you rotate your elbwos down and press the barbell overhead.[/quote]
Have you pressing that way with a log? It’s been nicknamed the “Poundstone Method”. I would guess you get more growth out of it due to the increased tension pulling the log into you.
Just an FYI this is called a “One Motion” or a “Viper Press” which was originally done by Tom McClure a friend of Derek Poundstone’s and a fellow World Strongest Man Competitor. CT is right noting that in order to do a reasonable amount of weight on this left your lower back does need to go into excessive extension. Being a strongman competitor it is advised that you practice this technique because it is very efficient for when performing the Log Clean and Press for max reps in a minute.
I’ve done log clean & press a couple of times in the past month. And since we have a team of strongmen training at the gym (including Canada’s strongest man and WSM finals competitor) I’ve used the “one motion” log clean & press, which is one of the reasons that convinced me to use the barbell variation.
I do not like it much with a log, feels cumbersome and not as effective for proper muscle loading. But as an event you have to train specifically for it.
CT I tried the continuous clean and press this morning Instead of clean and push press for my morning HFS/practice session and that’s a very powerful lift.Is there any way to use this in a layer set up or no.I just wondering where it could be placed.Thank’s CT.
[quote]jppage wrote:
CT I tried the continuous clean and press this morning Instead of clean and push press for my morning HFS/practice session and that’s a very powerful lift.Is there any way to use this in a layer set up or no.I just wondering where it could be placed.Thank’s CT.[/quote]
Ramp up to a 1RN
Then 3 sets of 3 reps with 85-90% of the 1RM (5 sec. rest between each repetition)
Then 10 sets of 2 reps with 60% of the 1RM done in as little time as possible
This is what I did earlier today, based on the layering system, and before CT had posted his current layer approach with this movement:
CG Muscle Snatch ramp to 3RM (managed 7 sets)
CG Clean & Push Press (traditional style) starting at 100% of #1 and working up until form fails doing 3RM (managed 4 sets)
CG Clean & Jerk Clusters using 100% of #2 (did 3 sets of 4 reps).
CG Muscle Snatch using 80% of #1 “Hard 5” (3 sets of 5 with 20-30s rest between sets).
On the Hard 5 I got myself confused and did 5 sets of 5 though lol No wonder I found it so hard!
Maybe the layer setup is not ideal, but it worked well for me.
Things I noticed:
I thought my shoulders might not be to happy but there were zero issues.
I found that as the Muscle Snatch got harder (last couple of ramp sets and last few reps on the Hard 5 for example) I was definitely relying more on getting my body into a 1/4 squat on the clean “catch” portion to make the press over the head achievable. Perhaps not ideal?? I suppose it’s like using a more Chinese High Pull movement on High Pulls when the weight gets heavy towards the end of a ramp/set.
I’ve started using the hook grip and really like it, although found it unusual and slightly tricky to press using that grip.
However, I’ll have a pop at the routine you’ve just posted CT, cheers
[quote]jppage wrote:
CT I tried the continuous clean and press this morning Instead of clean and push press for my morning HFS/practice session and that’s a very powerful lift.Is there any way to use this in a layer set up or no.I just wondering where it could be placed.Thank’s CT.[/quote]
Ramp up to a 1RN
Then 3 sets of 3 reps with 85-90% of the 1RM (5 sec. rest between each repetition)
Then 10 sets of 2 reps with 60% of the 1RM done in as little time as possible
That’s what I do[/quote]
Perfect thank’s again CT.
I use both variations… and can go from floor, hang or blocks. [/quote]
CT, I REALLY wanna thank you for introducing these to us. I tried these briefly today and I really liked the movement. So much so that I’m concerned I was doing them improperly. It just felt too…right. So I was wondering about a couple technique points. First, I understand that there is no catch so does that also mean there is absolutely no dropping at all to get under the bar or does it only mean that the bar does not stop moving? For example, on some of my reps I cleaned the weight to mouth/eye level and (almost involuntarily) I dipped a tiny bit under the bar and pressed the weight overhead with no pause in bar movement. Is that acceptable or should the knees stay locked once the pull is completed? Second, is it a pull to the mouth specifically or in the mouth-eye area? That may be a pointless question once I use heavier weight. Finally, if using this movement should we exclude the snatch grip high pull and military press or can they all be used concurrently?
