Let’s just say soccer has skilled position players beat at conditioning for the sake of this argument.
Skilled position players have soccer players beat in.
- Strength
- Power
- Speed
- Quickness
- Toughness
5-1 wins
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
We do all agree that Michael Jordan is hands down the greatest athlete of the modern era, right?
With Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson right behind him. [/quote]
No. I can’t say he isn’t the greatest modern day athlete, but I can’t personally give him the crown either. Not without looking at Bo Jackson. [/quote]
C’mon man. I’m with ya on Bo. But Jordan? No way to ever “prove” it, but I can’t say I saw better.
[/quote]
Dude, Jordan was awesome. I am thankful I got to watch him play growing up. But, Bo Jackson was pretty fucking crazy. I know it was marketing, but nike was doing those ads ‘Bo Knows’ and portraying him like he was the greatest athlete on Earth, while Jordan was entering his Prime. If he wouldn’t have gotten injured (the injury shows the amount of power he was generating) that guy would have been hands down. I can’t count out Bo Jackson, just can’t do it man
- Coordination- soccer
- Agility- toss up
- Explosiveness- NFL skill player
I’m not a soccer guy, but they need to offer Pele’ up as a defense of their sport.
One of the greatest ever.
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
6. Coordination- soccer
7. Agility- toss up
8. Explosiveness- NFL skill player[/quote]
So 6-2-1 in favor of the NFL skill player. I wont even argue about #6
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
[quote]spk wrote:
brett, not having to worry about getting your head ripped off by 250 # guys has nothing to do with the players condition… dude may look impressive with his shirt off ans with a bunch of muscles, but needing oxygen after 100 yards isnt too fit in my book.soccer players do this all game as do basketball players and sprinters training as do rugby players…i seen this countless times. oxygen for the stud that just ran 100 yards…[/quote]
That fear factor takes a lot of you. Ever boxed or done MMA? You will be amazed at how tired you get from the tension/adrenaline. Until you really learn to relax, it add a whole extra layer of conditioning other than just running. The mental altertness avoiding the big hit is a factor.
I know what it looks like, but it’s different once you are out there. In full pads. [/quote]
I would just like to point out that the rugby players spk mentioned also have people trying to ram into them, take them out and so on without wearing pads (and headgear is optional). Australian rules football can also add an aerial aspect to it, again without any more protective equipment other than a mouthguard.
[quote]238 wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
[quote]spk wrote:
brett, not having to worry about getting your head ripped off by 250 # guys has nothing to do with the players condition… dude may look impressive with his shirt off ans with a bunch of muscles, but needing oxygen after 100 yards isnt too fit in my book.soccer players do this all game as do basketball players and sprinters training as do rugby players…i seen this countless times. oxygen for the stud that just ran 100 yards…[/quote]
That fear factor takes a lot of you. Ever boxed or done MMA? You will be amazed at how tired you get from the tension/adrenaline. Until you really learn to relax, it add a whole extra layer of conditioning other than just running. The mental altertness avoiding the big hit is a factor.
I know what it looks like, but it’s different once you are out there. In full pads. [/quote]
I would just like to point out that the rugby players spk mentioned also have people trying to ram into them, take them out and so on without wearing pads (and headgear is optional). Australian rules football can also add an aerial aspect to it, again without any more protective equipment other than a mouthguard.[/quote]
Former rugby player here. The lack of pads isn’t as big a deal as you might think. Rugby has more players on the field, no forward passing, and continuous action. These and some other factors create a much more clustered environment than in football. You’re getting hit sure, but it’s usually pretty close action. It’s not at all the same as in football where some guy has had 20 yards to reach full speed and rams into you full fucking force. There’s a reason football has pads lol.
That being said I do love rugby. In fact if given a choice I enjoy watching a good rugby game more than football even (don’t tell my country).
the original question has been debated forever. only way to find out who is the best rounded athlete is have a competition of 10 events with the entrants not participating in their sport. which they been doing since 1973… the superstars. sure some events are non manly like one poster said, but hitting a golf ball as close to the pin as 1 event is still sport. then there was the 2 laps of a track on a bike, weights , obsticle course, 1/2 mile run, swimming. someone elses make up of a decatlon. and the track guys won the most. some unknows to the big 4 sports won too.
so the only way to find out if michael jordan or lebron or a skilled db in football is all round good is have them enter a decathlon…well, the excuse is they spend all their time on their sport, they wouldnt be good at it… so in reality we will never know how good one of these guys would be. so in my opinion, the current track decathlete is the best well rounded athlete… always has been. then outside that its the top crossfitters, cause their big competition is a bunch of events , endurance, skill, sprints…so ez for armchair athletes say so and so blow this guy away and that guy is better.
how do we know?? we dont… i was a good runner. 4:03 in the mile. now i’m a good bike racer. pro level. why, because i train my ass off at it. could i be good at soccer… who knows, and who cares… same with lebron, think he cares if he be good at soccer, or swimmoing the 1650? armchair guys will debate this forever…
[quote]csulli wrote:
That being said I do love rugby. In fact if given a choice I enjoy watching a good rugby game more than football even (don’t tell my country).[/quote]
I knew I liked you
I’d argue that rugby gets edged by American football in strength, power, and speed. But the fact that the players are on the pitch for 40 minute halves with far fewer breaks than football is relevant. It’s going to depend on how much weight you put on strength over endurance.
Why people are still arguing association football is beyond me - they have the endurance, and some speed, but they get annihilated in anything else physical.
Skills/coordination are subjective to the sport being played, and any player at the top level in any sport is going to be skilled.
[quote]spk wrote:
seen a football player run back a kickoff of 100 yards, then on the sidelines, hes given oxygen. huffin and puffin…seen that 10000000000 times over the years… now a soccer player does that many many times in a 90 minute game and i never seen those guys half dead looking taking oxygen…[/quote]
You ever see a soccer player run in a full set of pads?
You ever see a soccer player bench press 225 for 30 reps?
You ever see a soccer player tackle a 220 lb guy running straight at them?
Why is it that everybody who thinks soccer players are the best athletes go straight to the ‘they can run around a lot’ argument? I hate to break it to you, but cardiovascular endurance does not indicate that an athlete is well-rounded.
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
When we say most impressive, well rounded athletes, we need to ensure that there is no external training method.
These athletes can only do their sport. No gym, no cross training, etc.
[/quote]
I totally disagree. The external training is a major part of it. The external training is a major reason they are in the NFL playing skill positions. That’s what it takes for them to get there. It’s part of it.
That’s one reason why I don’t hold basketball as high. Larry Bird is one of the greatest basketball players of all time. Larry Bird is not one of the most impressive, well-rounded athletes of all time.
[/quote]
NFL is not a sport, it’s a division worth millions and millions of dollars. American Football, in and of itself, does not require much. If wrestling was worth millions and millions, there would be no NFL combine, and someone would be saying the same for football as you are saying of basketball.
[/quote]
NFL is worth billions and billions of dollars.
The NFL is were the best American Football players go to play.
[/quote]
Yes, but the sport itself does not produce impressive athletes.
I guess I’m looking at it differently. I’m thinking of the sport itself producing an athlete, and you’re simply biased about AF since that’s where all the great athletes go cause of money.[/quote]
Sports don’t ‘produce’ athletes, genetics and training do. You just admitted that all the great athletes in America play football. Which means something about them made them great athletes prior to their participation in football. The topic is ‘who are the most impressive, well rounded athletes’. If the greatest athletic talents are competing in the NFL, shouldn’t we start our search there?
okay, lots of physical elements in this,
any mental elements that need to be included in the criteria of impressive/well-rounded?
I mean, what’s tougher mentally in the long run,
losing through team effort
or
losing mano-a-mano (tennis, for example) ?
or the reverse, is it easier to win on a team or in a individual event? I mean easier in terms of the mental pressures each copes with
This should settle it:
Here is a solid criteria for measuring athletic ability:
- 40 yard sprint
- 400 m run
- 10k endurance run
- Bicycle endurance race
- Swim event
- Broad jump
- Verticle jump
- Shuttle run
- Bench press for reps (1.5 body weight)
- Squat for reps (2x body weight)
- Obstacle course
- Reflex drill
- Coordination drill
Now those events require zero sports skill.
Who dominates?
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
This should settle it:
Here is a solid criteria for measuring athletic ability:
- 40 yard sprint
- 400 m run
- 10k endurance run
- Bicycle endurance race
- Swim event
- Broad jump
- Verticle jump
- Shuttle run
- Bench press for reps (1.5 body weight)
- Squat for reps (2x body weight)
- Obstacle course
- Reflex drill
- Coordination drill
Now those events require zero sports skill.
Who dominates?[/quote]
Bob from accounting
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
When we say most impressive, well rounded athletes, we need to ensure that there is no external training method.
These athletes can only do their sport. No gym, no cross training, etc.
[/quote]
I totally disagree. The external training is a major part of it. The external training is a major reason they are in the NFL playing skill positions. That’s what it takes for them to get there. It’s part of it.
That’s one reason why I don’t hold basketball as high. Larry Bird is one of the greatest basketball players of all time. Larry Bird is not one of the most impressive, well-rounded athletes of all time.
[/quote]
NFL is not a sport, it’s a division worth millions and millions of dollars. American Football, in and of itself, does not require much. If wrestling was worth millions and millions, there would be no NFL combine, and someone would be saying the same for football as you are saying of basketball.
[/quote]
NFL is worth billions and billions of dollars.
The NFL is were the best American Football players go to play.
[/quote]
Yes, but the sport itself does not produce impressive athletes.
I guess I’m looking at it differently. I’m thinking of the sport itself producing an athlete, and you’re simply biased about AF since that’s where all the great athletes go cause of money.[/quote]
Sports don’t ‘produce’ athletes, genetics and training do. You just admitted that all the great athletes in America play football. Which means something about them made them great athletes prior to their participation in football. The topic is ‘who are the most impressive, well rounded athletes’. If the greatest athletic talents are competing in the NFL, shouldn’t we start our search there?
[/quote]
Yes, but that’s not how I understand the question.
Obviously the best go where the money is, the sport is irrelevant.
How I understood it was: “If person X were to compete in a sport, and only train in that sport, which sport would make him the most well rounded, impressive athlete?”.
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
When we say most impressive, well rounded athletes, we need to ensure that there is no external training method.
These athletes can only do their sport. No gym, no cross training, etc.
[/quote]
I totally disagree. The external training is a major part of it. The external training is a major reason they are in the NFL playing skill positions. That’s what it takes for them to get there. It’s part of it.
That’s one reason why I don’t hold basketball as high. Larry Bird is one of the greatest basketball players of all time. Larry Bird is not one of the most impressive, well-rounded athletes of all time.
[/quote]
NFL is not a sport, it’s a division worth millions and millions of dollars. American Football, in and of itself, does not require much. If wrestling was worth millions and millions, there would be no NFL combine, and someone would be saying the same for football as you are saying of basketball.
[/quote]
NFL is worth billions and billions of dollars.
The NFL is were the best American Football players go to play.
[/quote]
Yes, but the sport itself does not produce impressive athletes.
I guess I’m looking at it differently. I’m thinking of the sport itself producing an athlete, and you’re simply biased about AF since that’s where all the great athletes go cause of money.[/quote]
Sports don’t ‘produce’ athletes, genetics and training do. You just admitted that all the great athletes in America play football. Which means something about them made them great athletes prior to their participation in football. The topic is ‘who are the most impressive, well rounded athletes’. If the greatest athletic talents are competing in the NFL, shouldn’t we start our search there?
[/quote]
Yes, but that’s not how I understand the question.
Obviously the best go where the money is, the sport is irrelevant.
How I understood it was: “If person X were to compete in a sport, and only train in that sport, which sport would make him the most well rounded, impressive athlete?”.
[/quote]
If that was the criteria, the answer would be Crossfit, because they would have the most diverse training available to them.
I guess I don’t really know what ‘only train in that sport’ means. Most professional athletes train basic barbell movements in the gym. Would you not be allowed to do this under your conditions?
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]spk wrote:
seen a football player run back a kickoff of 100 yards, then on the sidelines, hes given oxygen. huffin and puffin…seen that 10000000000 times over the years… now a soccer player does that many many times in a 90 minute game and i never seen those guys half dead looking taking oxygen…[/quote]
Yeah man; soccer players suck though. I’ve seen ultramarathoners run 100 miles at a time. Soccer players would never last that long. Because endurance is the ultimate test of athleticism right? Right???
I mean I’ve seen strongmen pull a 150,000lb plane down a course and go for oxygen tanks afterwards. LOL! Fucking pussies.
Emaciated 120lb dudes with no muscle who can jump around and move about all day long are the best athletes.[/quote]
HAHAHAHAHAH!
There’s no way soccer takes this. The question was most well-rounded athlete, and as far as I can tell soccer players just about only have endurance over other sportsmen.
I’m well chuffed this thread has lasted so long 
[quote]furo wrote:
There’s no way soccer takes this. The question was most well-rounded athlete, and as far as I can tell soccer players just about only have endurance over other sportsmen.
I’m well chuffed this thread has lasted so long
[/quote]
Dude, I don’t even think the pro soccer crowd really believes soccer takes the crown…
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]furo wrote:
There’s no way soccer takes this. The question was most well-rounded athlete, and as far as I can tell soccer players just about only have endurance over other sportsmen.
I’m well chuffed this thread has lasted so long
[/quote]
Dude, I don’t even think the pro soccer crowd really believes soccer takes the crown…[/quote]
But they can run without using oxygen.
Duh catch up