The Great Reg Park

Training Powerlifting
21

Bro,

Im not here to give proof or discredit anyone. The intervirew I saw with Arnold was on a steroid special on Eurosport. Arnold mentioned that his era of bodybuilders was not the first to use anabolics and that former Mr. Americas lik ehis mentor Park had. He also added it was completley legal at this time.

Big deal, I just dont want the youngsters lead to believe that a certain style of training is “natural” when it is not and that it produces certain results that it wont for a natural athelete.

22

[quote]Viking69 wrote:
Bro,

Im not here to give proof or discredit anyone. The intervirew I saw with Arnold was on a steroid special on Eurosport. Arnold mentioned that his era of bodybuilders was not the first to use anabolics and that former Mr. Americas lik ehis mentor Park had. He also added it was completley legal at this time.

Big deal, I just dont want the youngsters lead to believe that a certain style of training is “natural” when it is not and that it produces certain results that it wont for a natural athelete.[/quote]

I understand that you are not “trying” to discredit anyone.

But, what you have done by not having all of the facts is in fact discredit the great Reg Park.

That’s one reason that I asked you for the various (specific) evidence that you could bring for your accusation to actually have merit. As it stands it is without merit! It is simply heresay, and no one should be “hung” on hearsay eveidence.

I know that the Internet is famous for passing along this sort of bologna as truth, but that doesn’t make it right.

Reg Parks numbers were truly incredible, and they in fact were natural! They do not deserve to have an asterisks placed by them, for the use of steroids. Unless someone wants to step up to the plate with some serious evidence which can be examined.

Otherwise, there’s simply no reason to tarnish this mans reputation.

I hope that nothing I have written is taken personally. I’m not at all against posting the truth about any of the past legends. We just have to make sure that it is in fact the truth.

Take care,

Zeb

23

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Viking69 wrote:
Bro,

Im not here to give proof or discredit anyone. The intervirew I saw with Arnold was on a steroid special on Eurosport. Arnold mentioned that his era of bodybuilders was not the first to use anabolics and that former Mr. Americas lik ehis mentor Park had. He also added it was completley legal at this time.

Big deal, I just dont want the youngsters lead to believe that a certain style of training is “natural” when it is not and that it produces certain results that it wont for a natural athelete.

I understand that you are not “trying” to discredit anyone.

But, what you have done by not having all of the facts is in fact discredit the great Reg Park.

That’s one reason that I asked you for the various (specific) evidence that you could bring for your accusation to actually have merit. As it stands it is without merit! It is simply heresay, and no one should be “hung” on hearsay eveidence.

I know that the Internet is famous for passing along this sort of bologna as truth, but that doesn’t make it right.

Reg Parks numbers were truly incredible, and they in fact were natural! They do not deserve to have an asterisks placed by them, for the use of steroids. Unless someone wants to step up to the plate with some serious evidence which can be examined.

Otherwise, there’s simply no reason to tarnish this mans reputation.

I hope that nothing I have written is taken personally. I’m not at all against posting the truth about any of the past legends. We just have to make sure that it is in fact the truth.

Take care,

Zeb

[/quote]

What kind of evidence do you need, a positive drug test?

I’ve heard people talk about various steroid usage for years. I highly doubt Park was natural. most people that had access to drugs took them. Arnold did, Pearl, and so. I’ve seen Bill Starr talk about the York guys from the late 50s early 60s and their drug usage. Speed and steroids were common.

I’m sure Park took them at the same time. Everyone seemd to. You can’t let hore worhip and rose colored glasses get in the way.

24

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Viking69 wrote:

I understand that you are not “trying” to discredit anyone.

But, what you have done by not having all of the facts is in fact discredit the great Reg Park.

That’s one reason that I asked you for the various (specific) evidence that you could bring for your accusation to actually have merit. As it stands it is without merit! It is simply heresay, and no one should be “hung” on hearsay eveidence.

I know that the Internet is famous for passing along this sort of bologna as truth, but that doesn’t make it right.

Reg Parks numbers were truly incredible, and they in fact were natural! They do not deserve to have an asterisks placed by them, for the use of steroids. Unless someone wants to step up to the plate with some serious evidence which can be examined.

Otherwise, there’s simply no reason to tarnish this mans reputation.

I hope that nothing I have written is taken personally. I’m not at all against posting the truth about any of the past legends. We just have to make sure that it is in fact the truth.

Take care,

Zeb

[/quote]

Bro,

I am a huge fan on the oldtime bodybuilders/strongman. I have no proof, nor do i car to look for proof beyond interviews from people that were in those circles(Arnold, Sergio, etc).

I personally dont care if an athelete is clean or not, and assume anyone after 1940 had ample access and knowledge of how to use steroids. If someone doesnt have the build of a Paul Anderson(who might not have been clean) it is very unlikely they can obtain a bodyweight + 250lb bench without superior leverages.

The records never moved until the 1940-50s in the squat and bench because thats when the drugs were added.

Yes there is no santa claus or tooth fairy.

25

[quote]tom63 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Viking69 wrote:
Bro,

Im not here to give proof or discredit anyone. The intervirew I saw with Arnold was on a steroid special on Eurosport. Arnold mentioned that his era of bodybuilders was not the first to use anabolics and that former Mr. Americas lik ehis mentor Park had. He also added it was completley legal at this time.

Big deal, I just dont want the youngsters lead to believe that a certain style of training is “natural” when it is not and that it produces certain results that it wont for a natural athelete.

I understand that you are not “trying” to discredit anyone.

But, what you have done by not having all of the facts is in fact discredit the great Reg Park.

That’s one reason that I asked you for the various (specific) evidence that you could bring for your accusation to actually have merit. As it stands it is without merit! It is simply heresay, and no one should be “hung” on hearsay eveidence.

I know that the Internet is famous for passing along this sort of bologna as truth, but that doesn’t make it right.

Reg Parks numbers were truly incredible, and they in fact were natural! They do not deserve to have an asterisks placed by them, for the use of steroids. Unless someone wants to step up to the plate with some serious evidence which can be examined.

Otherwise, there’s simply no reason to tarnish this mans reputation.

I hope that nothing I have written is taken personally. I’m not at all against posting the truth about any of the past legends. We just have to make sure that it is in fact the truth.

Take care,

Zeb

What kind of evidence do you need, a positive drug test?

I’ve heard people talk about various steroid usage for years. I highly doubt Park was natural. most people that had access to drugs took them. Arnold did, Pearl, and so. I’ve seen Bill Starr talk about the York guys from the late 50s early 60s and their drug usage. Speed and steroids were common.

I’m sure Park took them at the same time. Everyone seemd to. You can’t let hore worhip and rose colored glasses get in the way.[/quote]

I can assure you it’s not “hero worship.” It’s about “cheap Internet talk.”

If you someone says they heard someone say something on some TV show so many years ago, what does that mean?

NADA!

26

[quote]Viking69 wrote:
Bro,

I am a huge fan on the oldtime bodybuilders/strongman. I have no proof, nor do i car to look for proof beyond interviews from people that were in those circles(Arnold, Sergio, etc).[/quote]

If you could produce a vid where someone credible said that they saw Park taking steroids that would be good evidence, as it’s “first hand knowledge.”

The same with any credible magazine article. That’s really all I’m looking for. Yet, you can’t seem to do that.

I think a mans reputation is worth that. I know the Internet game is usually not played that way, but it’s only fair.

If someone stated that “Viking69” was a drug dealer I would not believe it unless there was some sort of serious evidence, and I don’t even know you, but fair is fair. That’s all I’m looking for here.

Wrong assumption! I know you are not understanding this as I have explained it before, but steroids were not popular in 1940. Late 50’s with many of the big guys…sure. 1940…no.

But then again he might have been clean. Do you just naturally assume everyone is on roids until proven otherwise?

So you are claiming that there are no men around who can achieve a body weight of 250 pounds and a great bench without roids?

Think about that one.

You are now showing your lack of education relative to old time strength records. There was little or no Bench Pressing in the 1930’s, so how could there be a record to break in 1940? It was really nothing but an assistance move until around the late 40’s, at which time it was called the “prone press.”

So what records are you talking about?

[quote] Yes there is no santa claus or tooth fairy.

[/quote]

That’s a good point that you make! Nor, is everyone who is (or was) strong on drugs, especially in 1940!

27

[quote]ZEB wrote:
It’s about “cheap Internet talk.”
[/quote]

hey ZEB…

I understand what you are saying…no one should be convicted of anything on hear-say…

but…

AAS were readily available to the bodybuilding and weightlifting community from the 50’s on…

whether anyone in particular took them, who knows for sure…

either way, the old time bodybuilders and weightlifters were impressive…

28

I think any sort of testosterone use by strength athletes/bodybuilders in the 1940s was rare to non-existent. Into the 1950s that may have started to change somewhat. Again, the York guys started with d-bol, which wasn’t developed until the 1950s, around '59/'60.

I never thought of Park as a steroid user. It’s a fair question, though. As someone else here stated, what are we going to do go back and test him 50 some years ago? Somebody like Bill Starr would probably know the truth.

29

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I don’t think people will ever really know for sure who did and who did not use steroids starting from around the mid 1900’s. I think we can make educated guesses and put two and two together here and there but still that’s just bs-ing anyway. I think if someone is regularly using that it shows in their appearance. I remember seeing reg and arnold on pumping iron in that scene at reg’s house by the pool a thousand times and thinking…man reg is damn near close to as big as arnold and he’s in his forties, something to think about.

All I know is I think about back around the turn of the century…not 2000 but 1900, who were some of the aesthetically freakiest and/or most popular guys walking around as far as muscular developement and strength, well Sandow and Saxon, look at their bodies. Sandow would cause women to faint in the audience from his appearance.

So late 1800’s early 1900’s, Sandow was a freak, and he was natural, seriously if I could get the proportions that Sandow had I’d be really damn happy. The dude was 5’9", 200lbs, and had 18.5in arms, 18in calves, 48in chest (before bench pressing and/or chest developement held much importance), 26in thighs, and a 30in waist supplementing with food and hard work…I mean thats damn nice developement if you ask me, oh yeah and he was ripped. If I had to idolize someone aesthetically for inspiration it would probably be him and his contemporaries.

30

[quote]ManOWolves wrote:
“I remember seeing reg and arnold on pumping iron in that scene at reg’s house by the pool a thousand times and thinking…man reg is damn near close to as big as arnold and he’s in his forties, something to think about.”

Very good point. An educated guess would be that at that time Reg was using AAS.

31

[quote]DPH wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It’s about “cheap Internet talk.”

hey ZEB…

I understand what you are saying…no one should be convicted of anything on hear-say…

but…

AAS were readily available to the bodybuilding and weightlifting community from the 50’s on…

whether anyone in particular took them, who knows for sure…

either way, the old time bodybuilders and weightlifters were impressive…[/quote]

As you said “from the 50’s on…” But, not 1940 as was alleged by another poster.

And just because they were available (from the 50’s on) as we both agree, does not mean that every big hitter was using them.

Overall I think we agree.

32

[quote]ZEB wrote:
tom63 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Viking69 wrote:
Bro,

Im not here to give proof or discredit anyone. The intervirew I saw with Arnold was on a steroid special on Eurosport. Arnold mentioned that his era of bodybuilders was not the first to use anabolics and that former Mr. Americas lik ehis mentor Park had. He also added it was completley legal at this time.

Big deal, I just dont want the youngsters lead to believe that a certain style of training is “natural” when it is not and that it produces certain results that it wont for a natural athelete.

I understand that you are not “trying” to discredit anyone.

But, what you have done by not having all of the facts is in fact discredit the great Reg Park.

That’s one reason that I asked you for the various (specific) evidence that you could bring for your accusation to actually have merit. As it stands it is without merit! It is simply heresay, and no one should be “hung” on hearsay eveidence.

I know that the Internet is famous for passing along this sort of bologna as truth, but that doesn’t make it right.

Reg Parks numbers were truly incredible, and they in fact were natural! They do not deserve to have an asterisks placed by them, for the use of steroids. Unless someone wants to step up to the plate with some serious evidence which can be examined.

Otherwise, there’s simply no reason to tarnish this mans reputation.

I hope that nothing I have written is taken personally. I’m not at all against posting the truth about any of the past legends. We just have to make sure that it is in fact the truth.

Take care,

Zeb

What kind of evidence do you need, a positive drug test?

I’ve heard people talk about various steroid usage for years. I highly doubt Park was natural. most people that had access to drugs took them. Arnold did, Pearl, and so. I’ve seen Bill Starr talk about the York guys from the late 50s early 60s and their drug usage. Speed and steroids were common.

I’m sure Park took them at the same time. Everyone seemd to. You can’t let hore worhip and rose colored glasses get in the way.

I can assure you it’s not “hero worship.” It’s about “cheap Internet talk.”

If you someone says they heard someone say something on some TV show so many years ago, what does that mean?

NADA!
[/quote]

No, but people in the iron game have always been willing to try anything to improve their physique or strength, just as other athletes.

When steroids became available, people used them. Reg Park was at the top of the game and I’m sure he had access.

33

[quote]tom63 wrote:

No, but people in the iron game have always been willing to try anything to improve their physique or strength, just as other athletes.[/quote]

And since Reg Park was a strength athletehe therefore would “try anything to improve.” Based on your illogical reasoning you now know that Park used roids in 1940.

(shaking head)

I hope you are younger than 21.

You are “sure he had access.”

Tell me, how can YOU be so sure?

Secondly, if he “had access” how do you know that he took them?

I am “sure” of things that I see. I am reasonably confident when I hear from a credible eye witness.

Did you experience either of the two above?

No I guess not.

What you are doing is taking part in pure speculation.

More cheap Intnernet talk.

It’s not so much the reputations of the old time strength stars I care about as much as I am sick of Internet “know it alls.”

Here’s what you know about Reg Park:

He was a strong guy who won many titles over 50 years ago. Anything else you say is bull unless you have the proof.

34

In all fairness, steroids didn’t originally carry the stigma they currently do. When they appeared in the late 50’s, a time when society was still naive and too trusting of science (Duck and Cover to avoid the A-bomb? C’mon!), a near magical elixir to improve athletic performance would have been a sort of Holy Grail for many.

It’s entirely possible that Park did use in the later years of his career. Not abuse, not even necessarily being on them all the time, but every now and again. His physique certainly changed pretty radically from his early days of competing against Steve Reeves to his later, thicker physique.

Reeves, too, may have used them after they appeared. After his shoulder was brutally damaged in a filming accident, he tried everything short of surgery (which he wisely refused) to regain strength in the damaged area. Why would a miracle of science be frowned upon, since there was no stigma attached to it?

This takes nothing away from the greats. Grimek, Reeves, Park… the feats they became famous for were done before steroids became prevalent in the sport. Their physiques were amazing, and their strength remarkable.

I don’t doubt that at some later point in their lives they may have experimented with the new wonder. Whether or not they did is debateable, and even if they did, we can’t be sure how often or how much. The fact remains, however, that all were health-conscious men who ate right, exercised regularly, and stayed active well into their later years. The greats of that generation proved that fitness wasn’t merely an ego stroke for contests on the beach, but that it was a lifelong, and life changing commitment.

For that alone, they deserve every ounce of respect they’re given.

Now what say we quit bitching at each other and do some lifting? :wink:

35

[quote]Northcott wrote:
In all fairness, steroids didn’t originally carry the stigma they currently do. When they appeared in the late 50’s, a time when society was still naive and too trusting of science (Duck and Cover to avoid the A-bomb? C’mon!), a near magical elixir to improve athletic performance would have been a sort of Holy Grail for many.

It’s entirely possible that Park did use in the later years of his career. Not abuse, not even necessarily being on them all the time, but every now and again. His physique certainly changed pretty radically from his early days of competing against Steve Reeves to his later, thicker physique.

Reeves, too, may have used them after they appeared. After his shoulder was brutally damaged in a filming accident, he tried everything short of surgery (which he wisely refused) to regain strength in the damaged area. Why would a miracle of science be frowned upon, since there was no stigma attached to it?

This takes nothing away from the greats. Grimek, Reeves, Park… the feats they became famous for were done before steroids became prevalent in the sport. Their physiques were amazing, and their strength remarkable.

I don’t doubt that at some later point in their lives they may have experimented with the new wonder. Whether or not they did is debateable, and even if they did, we can’t be sure how often or how much. The fact remains, however, that all were health-conscious men who ate right, exercised regularly, and stayed active well into their later years. The greats of that generation proved that fitness wasn’t merely an ego stroke for contests on the beach, but that it was a lifelong, and life changing commitment.

For that alone, they deserve every ounce of respect they’re given.

Now what say we quit bitching at each other and do some lifting? ;)[/quote]

Well said. Great post!

36


Here is a side by side of Arnold and his mentor Park.

37

Whoa! Man, Park looks as big as Schwarzenegger in his prime.

I should see if I can find some of my old shots of Park – one of when he was in his prime, competing against Steve Reeves. Talk about a difference. :wink:

38

Great pic! Taken in South Africa, I believe.

39

Yep in SA, before Arnold won a Olympia and at the time I think Arnold had won a top European contest.

40

As a slight tangent, when did steroids become available? Not universally but to those in the know.

Dax