[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
And you are all adding to their popularity as we speak.
I find them entertaining and leave it at that.[/quote]
Yep, exactly
Every site catering to any interest like fashion/entertainment/sports/lifestyle has trolls that leave bad comments, bodybuilding does NOT have the market cornered FAR from it.
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
I have average genetics .[/quote]
If you don’t mind explaining…what does this mean exactly and how do you know?[/quote]
Well I have small bone structure, small hands, small wrists, small shoulders and elbows and knees. Yet I always had reasonable amounts of lean mass for a skinny person. I am not fast or explosive and I suffered head trauma on multiple occasions as a kid which resulted in lowish testosterone, I could probably get HRT but I have no interest in it.
[/quote]
Do you think this might affect your perception of what “average” is?
Just using the guys you brought up…120lbs is BELOW AVERAGE in body weight for any man unless extremely short. You are basically saying these guys got to average weight using steroids…which happens as someone grows up anyway to some degree. I mean, we only have your word to go on this.
There was a guy in the bigger stronger forum recently with 14" arms who is very short who had the opinion that there are BIG guys who can’t lift heavy.
His opinion is likely based on the fact that many people would seem bigger to him because of his own stature…and this means nothing as far as what most big guys can actually do.
Simply put, there are too many people out there on steroids who do NOT look like it for your comments to hold. No, it is not magic…and if a placebo group in a study that you mentioned is gaining almost as much as the steroid group, then that brings the whole study into question.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
It’s kind of funny to think that injecting steroids will cause your body to just magically get so much bigger. No extra food, no accommodation for gain- just take this and synthesize something out of nothing.
If I remember correctly there were some guys on the steroid forum who did this at the advise of a former guru here- And ended up with gyno, still didn’t know how to lift, and were a few hundred dollars lighter by the time it was all said and done.
No miracles there. Just dudes with tits and less cash.
[/quote]
And hopefully a lesson learned.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
It’s kind of funny to think that injecting steroids will cause your body to just magically get so much bigger. No extra food, no accommodation for gain- just take this and synthesize something out of nothing.
If I remember correctly there were some guys on the steroid forum who did this at the advise of a former guru here- And ended up with gyno, still didn’t know how to lift, and were a few hundred dollars lighter by the time it was all said and done.
No miracles there. Just dudes with tits and less cash.
[/quote]
And hopefully a lesson learned.[/quote]
Guys who get big by “only steroids” would be the first to lose it all as well.
Magic they are not. If someone looks like Kali Muscle, it isn’t because of magic and no added hard work…
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
It’s kind of funny to think that injecting steroids will cause your body to just magically get so much bigger. No extra food, no accommodation for gain- just take this and synthesize something out of nothing.
If I remember correctly there were some guys on the steroid forum who did this at the advise of a former guru here- And ended up with gyno, still didn’t know how to lift, and were a few hundred dollars lighter by the time it was all said and done.
No miracles there. Just dudes with tits and less cash.
[/quote]
And hopefully a lesson learned.[/quote]
You guys have it wrong.
Just inject the steroids, sit on the couch and gain 10-12 pounds of muscle while losing fat. It’s easy.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
It’s kind of funny to think that injecting steroids will cause your body to just magically get so much bigger. No extra food, no accommodation for gain- just take this and synthesize something out of nothing.
If I remember correctly there were some guys on the steroid forum who did this at the advise of a former guru here- And ended up with gyno, still didn’t know how to lift, and were a few hundred dollars lighter by the time it was all said and done.
No miracles there. Just dudes with tits and less cash.
[/quote]
And hopefully a lesson learned.[/quote]
You guys have it wrong.
Just inject the steroids, sit on the couch and gain 10-12 pounds of muscle while losing fat. It’s easy.[/quote]
Yeah man. Just jerk off and you’ll bench 500lbs by midnight.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
It’s kind of funny to think that injecting steroids will cause your body to just magically get so much bigger. No extra food, no accommodation for gain- just take this and synthesize something out of nothing.
If I remember correctly there were some guys on the steroid forum who did this at the advise of a former guru here- And ended up with gyno, still didn’t know how to lift, and were a few hundred dollars lighter by the time it was all said and done.
No miracles there. Just dudes with tits and less cash.
[/quote]
And hopefully a lesson learned.[/quote]
You guys have it wrong.
Just inject the steroids, sit on the couch and gain 10-12 pounds of muscle while losing fat. It’s easy.[/quote]
To be fair the kid did say that they increased their food intake and continued to lift hard, they just made tons more gains than their fellow natty lifters.
Does not seem that far fetched of a statement to me.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
It’s kind of funny to think that injecting steroids will cause your body to just magically get so much bigger. No extra food, no accommodation for gain- just take this and synthesize something out of nothing.
If I remember correctly there were some guys on the steroid forum who did this at the advise of a former guru here- And ended up with gyno, still didn’t know how to lift, and were a few hundred dollars lighter by the time it was all said and done.
No miracles there. Just dudes with tits and less cash.
[/quote]
And hopefully a lesson learned.[/quote]
I dunno about that. My pointing out that you should learn how to lift and eat to make gains before assembling interweb dudes mega super cycle got me called an asshole.
By a guy who paid good money to grow some marginal boobs.
I don’t know if people like that learn real good. I quit keeping track.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
It’s kind of funny to think that injecting steroids will cause your body to just magically get so much bigger. No extra food, no accommodation for gain- just take this and synthesize something out of nothing.
If I remember correctly there were some guys on the steroid forum who did this at the advise of a former guru here- And ended up with gyno, still didn’t know how to lift, and were a few hundred dollars lighter by the time it was all said and done.
No miracles there. Just dudes with tits and less cash.
[/quote]
Again, that is a straw man. Where did I say you can be at a caloric deficit and go from 120 lbs to 200lbs? This is just a rubbish dullard response, not taking on any of the points I made.
If you take hormones, you eat at a caloric surplus and increase the poundage on the bar, you can get huge, with no more effort than a 180 pound in shape natural guy . I never said you don’t have to stick to a program and eat enough. I was arguing that what separates Kali muscle and CT from other lifters is large amounts of drugs. And that is why people post that fact on youtube comments, which is what this thread was about.
Having seen guys go to the same gym for years natural and make small gains every year, then jump on gear using the same dietary and weight routine and balloon up, yes, it is drugs that separate the big guys from the normal guys. Not some different level of hard work and dedication.
People pointing that out on youtube are not haters or jealous, they are stating simple fact. But of course I am just saying people can synthesise imaginary protein from taking steroids. The set of wicker man sends their regards, nice job. It looked great.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
It’s kind of funny to think that injecting steroids will cause your body to just magically get so much bigger. No extra food, no accommodation for gain- just take this and synthesize something out of nothing.
If I remember correctly there were some guys on the steroid forum who did this at the advise of a former guru here- And ended up with gyno, still didn’t know how to lift, and were a few hundred dollars lighter by the time it was all said and done.
No miracles there. Just dudes with tits and less cash.
[/quote]
And hopefully a lesson learned.[/quote]
You guys have it wrong.
Just inject the steroids, sit on the couch and gain 10-12 pounds of muscle while losing fat. It’s easy.[/quote]
To be fair the kid did say that they increased their food intake and continued to lift hard, they just made tons more gains than their fellow natty lifters.
Does not seem that far fetched of a statement to me.[/quote]
Way to be a buzz kill 
I was obviously being facetious but look at what he wrote. Buddies who graduated highschool at 120 pounds and now are lean ass kicking 200 pounders after a few years. All of their gains were attributed to steroids. He also said they weren’t serious and were party kids right?
If those numbers are accurate then these buddies graduated EXTREMELY underweight. There is a big difference between a fresh out of highschool kid and a 21-22 year old guy, developmentally speaking. A decent amount of those gains can be attributed to maturity and growing up… Just going from malnutrition to a normal healthy adult weight.
I am not discrediting the power of steroids. They are capable of amazing things but I completely disagree with the statement that steroids do all the work.
That’s all I was getting at mi amigo 
[quote]gregron wrote:
There is a big difference between a fresh out of highschool kid and a 21-22 year old guy[/quote]
Yup.
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
Again, that is a straw man. Where did I say you can be at a caloric deficit and go from 120 lbs to 200lbs? This is just a rubbish dullard response, not taking on any of the points I made.
[/quote]
Where does it say that I said you said that? HA! Checkmate Motherfucker! I made up a question out of the question you made up knowing that there is no answer to yours and therefore no answer to mine!
So, same dietary routine now means what ever you want it to without regard for amount or content?
Go on with your bad self. I am in awe.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
And you are all adding to their popularity as we speak.
I find them entertaining and leave it at that.[/quote]
Yep, exactly
Every site catering to any interest like fashion/entertainment/sports/lifestyle has trolls that leave bad comments, bodybuilding does NOT have the market cornered FAR from it.[/quote]
agreed. Acknowledging haterz is just giving them dominion over you. It happens in so many areas of life. I think the same can be said about unfounded positivity, especially for high level achievers ala Matt Kroc. It’s hard to actually know and accept the truth, which is where I think the internet + competition actually is helping us make strides in that regard.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
It’s kind of funny to think that injecting steroids will cause your body to just magically get so much bigger. No extra food, no accommodation for gain- just take this and synthesize something out of nothing.
If I remember correctly there were some guys on the steroid forum who did this at the advise of a former guru here- And ended up with gyno, still didn’t know how to lift, and were a few hundred dollars lighter by the time it was all said and done.
No miracles there. Just dudes with tits and less cash.
[/quote]
And hopefully a lesson learned.[/quote]
I dunno about that. My pointing out that you should learn how to lift and eat to make gains before assembling interweb dudes mega super cycle got me called an asshole.
By a guy who paid good money to grow some marginal boobs.
I don’t know if people like that learn real good. I quit keeping track.
[/quote]
Oh no. I’m sure they’re stupid, but “hopefully” lol.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
It’s kind of funny to think that injecting steroids will cause your body to just magically get so much bigger. No extra food, no accommodation for gain- just take this and synthesize something out of nothing.
If I remember correctly there were some guys on the steroid forum who did this at the advise of a former guru here- And ended up with gyno, still didn’t know how to lift, and were a few hundred dollars lighter by the time it was all said and done.
No miracles there. Just dudes with tits and less cash.
[/quote]
And hopefully a lesson learned.[/quote]
You guys have it wrong.
Just inject the steroids, sit on the couch and gain 10-12 pounds of muscle while losing fat. It’s easy.[/quote]
To be fair the kid did say that they increased their food intake and continued to lift hard, they just made tons more gains than their fellow natty lifters.
Does not seem that far fetched of a statement to me.[/quote]
Way to be a buzz kill
I was obviously being facetious but look at what he wrote. Buddies who graduated highschool at 120 pounds and now are lean ass kicking 200 pounders after a few years. All of their gains were attributed to steroids. He also said they weren’t serious and were party kids right?
If those numbers are accurate then these buddies graduated EXTREMELY underweight. There is a big difference between a fresh out of highschool kid and a 21-22 year old guy, developmentally speaking. A decent amount of those gains can be attributed to maturity and growing up… Just going from malnutrition to a normal healthy adult weight.
I am not discrediting the power of steroids. They are capable of amazing things but I completely disagree with the statement that steroids do all the work.
That’s all I was getting at mi amigo :)[/quote]
To be fair, I did not once say they have no dedication. I said they had the same dedication before the were enhanced and after, so if you are a dedicated dude working out and one year you gain 10-12 pounds of muscle and then the next year you gain another 10 pounds and then the third year, you buy some gear and you gain 27 pounds of muscle. Did you gain 27 pounds due to your hard work and dedication or were the steroids a big, big factor? If they were why is it wrong for people to call CT, Kali etc out if they deny being on steroids?
You seem to insinuate that I am disrespectful to enhanced lifters, I am not. I am saying a big enhanced dude and an athletic lean dude can put in the exact same amount of hard work and the size difference is down to the fact one is on the juice and the other is not.
That is in no way up for debate. If as the study posted showed people gained muscle on steroids without working out, then the idea taking them as a lifter is not more important than dedication is just childish. Downplaying the amazing benefits of steroids is the mainstay of bodybuilders who for some reason are insecure that they couldn’t have the physique they have without drugs. They will whip out the arnie autobiography and claim just like arnold, its about as effective as a tan. Which of course, is so utterly laughable it doesn’t rely require an in depth response.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
Again, that is a straw man. Where did I say you can be at a caloric deficit and go from 120 lbs to 200lbs? This is just a rubbish dullard response, not taking on any of the points I made.
[/quote]
Where does it say that I said you said that? HA! Checkmate Motherfucker! I made up a question out of the question you made up knowing that there is no answer to yours and therefore no answer to mine!
So, same dietary routine now means what ever you want it to without regard for amount or content?
Go on with your bad self. I am in awe.
[/quote]
OK you are right, dedication is what gets people 22 inch arms.
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
OK you are right, dedication is what gets people 22 inch arms. [/quote]
Pretty much…because no one does that by training like a weekend warrior.
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]Pj92x wrote:
Again, that is a straw man. Where did I say you can be at a caloric deficit and go from 120 lbs to 200lbs? This is just a rubbish dullard response, not taking on any of the points I made.
[/quote]
Where does it say that I said you said that? HA! Checkmate Motherfucker! I made up a question out of the question you made up knowing that there is no answer to yours and therefore no answer to mine!
So, same dietary routine now means what ever you want it to without regard for amount or content?
Go on with your bad self. I am in awe.
[/quote]
OK you are right, dedication is what gets people 22 inch arms. [/quote]
You are missing the point that people on youtube are saying these guys have NO dedication and are NOT hard working and that the ONLY reason they are big is the juice. Did the 'roids make them big? Yes. Did they combine that with hard work and dedication in and out of the gym? Yes.
Just to make the point…the belief that steroids are magic is one of things holding many people back.
No, no one gets as big as Kali by taking steroids and not training any different than the guy who hasn’t gained any muscle in the last 3 years.
Steroids are NOT magic. Steroids are NOT why CT Fletcher looks like he does at the age of 55. There is a big difference between what a real gym rat can do and the guy who trains at Planet Fitness.