The Fitness New Age

Off Topic
261

Have we really been reduced to debunking uninformed claims about how steroids work?

Are we really having an “intelligent” discussion about natural v. unnatural athletes, and the advantages of the latter?

I forgot the premise of his OP…something about him not understanding, that these guys should be “inspiring.” Since I stepped into the fray, let me sum this up succinctly:

  1. People don’t like liars cheats or frauds. We may not always be fair as a species, but a sense of fairness makes us believe competition is possible. Humans like fairness. We’re hard wired for it. We’re never going to celebrate the cheat. And it’s not human nature to support a fraud;
  2. Natural athletes (particularly bb or strength) bristle when a clearly assisted athlete claims to be natural;
  3. Although the admission of taking AAS and such is potentially legally problematic, no one is forcing a BB or internet personality to claim they are natural. And, such claims are especially troubling when the person profits from their public persona;
  4. Likewise, no one is forcing the likes of CT to put himself into the public eye. He’s trying to make a buck, and the criticism comes with the praise;
  5. Sources of “inspiration” (really, is that what this silly thread is about?) are personal. Just b/c X gets wood watching one of these guys do his thing (and later lie about being natural) doesn’t mean everyone else will sport the same wood. Jeez I hope we can all determine the source of our own personal inspiration without X having to tell us whether it’s correct or not.
  6. Long ago, EVERYONE was less informed about steroids. Kids and newbies DID believe they could be like Arnold with hard work, not knowing Arnold was taking d-bols like M&Ms.
  7. The public does not need to be experts on AAS. They only need to know it provides an indisputable advantage. See point 1 above.

Finally, are you guys really going to bicker about anecdotal high school steroid stories and guys sprouting from 120 to 200? LOL c’mon

262

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Then we disagree…because I know you can get to over 200lbs without using shit.

[/quote]

This is patently false. It depends where they start, what their structure is, bone, etc. But yeah, your average untrained 170lb guy can probably get to 200 pretty easy with some dedicated training and eating. Yeah.

263

[quote]Species wrote:

  1. People don’t like liars cheats or frauds. We may not always be fair as a species, but a sense of fairness makes us believe competition is possible. Humans like fairness. We’re hard wired for it. We’re never going to celebrate the cheat. And it’s not human nature to support a fraud;[/quote]

Above I wrote:

Care to respond?

264

[quote]Professor X wrote:

We just had a poster claim that steroids are MAGIC and transform 120lbs skinny dudes into 200lbs behemoths with little to no significant extra training.

[/quote]

Easy now…no need to lie, he said that they ate to support their workouts and trained just as hard as the nattys.

265

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I don’t find CT Fletcher to be incoherent, rambling, inarticulate, and THOROUGHLY IRRITATING.

I do not find Kali Muscle to be incoherent, rambling, inarticulate, and THOROUGHLY IRRITATING.

[/quote]

I am still truly amazed that you are befuddled by mistreatment, disrespect, and inappropriate behavior so surprising. I am not saying they are OK, but these things go on every… single… day… in real life AND on the 'net. You are in your mid 30’s. Why are you surprised? [/quote]

Befuddled?

You stated this:

[quote]
The insults and call outs might result from some of these You Tube personalities providing nothing useful, [/quote]

So I ask…which one of them is providing “nothing useful”?

You said:

You seem to give these random accusations and opinions way m,ore credit than I do.

Having an opinion is one thing.

Acting like all of the insults and call outs are “accurate judgment” would seem to imply you agree with the act.

Just asking for an explanation for the statements you made first in this thread.[/quote]

People informed on roids make educated judgments. Sometimes their judgment might be inaccurate, but a level headed person who knows about roids and what is possible naturally would not state someone is using just to insult them; they say it because from their experience and knowledge, they think it’s probable some people use.

People are a lot more educated now with the advent of the internet. Before we couldn’t have educated people writing articles in Flex and M&F and MM2K or Muscle Media writing, “Hey, you will never look like these guys in our magazines, and here’s why and here’s what’s possible naturally.” People are no longer fooled by the SO CALLED “natural” poster boys such as Markus Reinhardt, Kiyoshi Moody, Mike O’Hearn, Bill Davies, Jeff Willet, Skip LaCour, Stan McQuay, and so on.

I already stated that I think insulting people isn’t good, but you come across, as if because these guys are big, that they somehow are exempt from enduring one of the unfortunate rigors of life: being insulted and disrespected. Who hasn’t?

I don’t understand your use of the word accusations. To me, accusation is charging someone of a crime. That is, CHARGING them. I say Kali MUscle and CT Fletcher aren’t natural because their bodies are unachievable by naturals. I don’t give a rat’s ass how hard some gifted natty trains or how he lives and eats; he will not attain the size of Kali Muscle.

You don’t find these four guys annoying. I and others do. But I’m not going to log onto their You Tube channels and post irreverent remarks about them because I think that would be distasteful. Some others will, just like people insult others on a daily basis everywhere. You think insulting and talking crap about people is a “trend” when it’s the way the world is forever.

I don’t find guys barking and bellowing and bragging and acting like children to be entertaining or motivational. If you do, that’s fine.

266

[quote]Species wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Then we disagree…because I know you can get to over 200lbs without using shit.

[/quote]

This is patently false. It depends where they start, what their structure is, bone, etc. But yeah, your average untrained 170lb guy can probably get to 200 pretty easy with some dedicated training and eating. Yeah. [/quote]

My very next sentence written was: This has nothing to do with some vague concept of dedication and everything to do with genetics.

That means it can’t be “patently false”.

267

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I don’t find CT Fletcher to be incoherent, rambling, inarticulate, and THOROUGHLY IRRITATING.

I do not find Kali Muscle to be incoherent, rambling, inarticulate, and THOROUGHLY IRRITATING.

[/quote]

I am still truly amazed that you are befuddled by mistreatment, disrespect, and inappropriate behavior so surprising. I am not saying they are OK, but these things go on every… single… day… in real life AND on the 'net. You are in your mid 30’s. Why are you surprised? [/quote]

Befuddled?

You stated this:

[quote]
The insults and call outs might result from some of these You Tube personalities providing nothing useful, [/quote]

So I ask…which one of them is providing “nothing useful”?

You said:

You seem to give these random accusations and opinions way m,ore credit than I do.

Having an opinion is one thing.

Acting like all of the insults and call outs are “accurate judgment” would seem to imply you agree with the act.

Just asking for an explanation for the statements you made first in this thread.[/quote]

People informed on roids make educated judgments. Sometimes their judgment might be inaccurate, but a level headed person who knows about roids and what is possible naturally would not state someone is using just to insult them; they say it because from their experience and knowledge, they think it’s probable some people use.

People are a lot more educated now with the advent of the internet. Before we couldn’t have educated people writing articles in Flex and M&F and MM2K or Muscle Media writing, “Hey, you will never look like these guys in our magazines, and here’s why and here’s what’s possible naturally.” People are no longer fooled by the SO CALLED “natural” poster boys such as Markus Reinhardt, Kiyoshi Moody, Mike O’Hearn, Bill Davies, Jeff Willet, Skip LaCour, Stan McQuay, and so on.

I already stated that I think insulting people isn’t good, but you come across, as if because these guys are big, that they somehow are exempt from enduring one of the unfortunate rigors of life: being insulted and disrespected. Who hasn’t?

I don’t understand your use of the word accusations. To me, accusation is charging someone of a crime. That is, CHARGING them. I say Kali MUscle and CT Fletcher aren’t natural because their bodies are unachievable by naturals. I don’t give a rat’s ass how hard some gifted natty trains or how he lives and eats; he will not attain the size of Kali Muscle.

You don’t find these four guys annoying. I and others do. But I’m not going to log onto their You Tube channels and post irreverent remarks about them because I think that would be distasteful. Some others will, just like people insult others on a daily basis everywhere. You think insulting and talking crap about people is a “trend” when it’s the way the world is forever.

I don’t find guys barking and bellowing and bragging and acting like children to be entertaining or motivational. If you do, that’s fine. [/quote]

LOL if form holds, this logic train will be ignored.

268

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

We just had a poster claim that steroids are MAGIC and transform 120lbs skinny dudes into 200lbs behemoths with little to no significant extra training.

[/quote]

Easy now…no need to lie, he said that they ate to support their workouts and trained just as hard as the nattys.

[/quote]

This is a lie?

That poster then went on to blame guys going from 120lbs to 200lbs from steroid use alone.

269

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

People informed on roids make educated judgments. Sometimes their judgment might be inaccurate, but a level headed person who knows about roids and what is possible naturally would not state someone is using just to insult them; they say it because from their experience and knowledge, they think it’s probable some people use. [/quote]

However, this thread was about those who are NOT just making some educated guess but accusing and insulting.

[quote]

I already stated that I think insulting people isn’t good, but you come across, as if because these guys are big, that they somehow are exempt from enduring one of the unfortunate rigors of life: being insulted and disrespected. Who hasn’t?[/quote]

? I am personally not going to condone personal attacks and just say it happens so let it be.

If you choose to, that is your own business.

[quote]
I don’t understand your use of the word accusations. To me, accusation is charging someone of a crime. [/quote]

An accusation has nothing to do with charging someone of a crime. People are usually accused first before any trial is held.

[quote]
You don’t find these four guys annoying. I and others do.[/quote]

You stated that some provide absolutely no benefit. I asked who that is.
Would you mind answering?

[quote]
But I’m not going to log onto their You Tube channels and post irreverent remarks about them because I think that would be distasteful. [/quote]

Gee, yet this discussion is about those who do.

270

Not sure if this link will stick, but here’s how the other half lives. Enjoy:

http://puahate.com/showthread.php?p=2129641

271

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Pj92x wrote:

No one is saying you can sit on the couch and eat vegan treats and gain 50 pounds in a couple years. Stop being the alex jones of bodybuilding and erecting straw men to knock down and expose the real truth maaaaaaan.[/quote]

Didn’t you discuss a study where the people using a placebo gained nearly as much muscle as those who used steroids and did NO added exercise?

Didn’t you make the point that you can gain muscle with no added work from steroids to the tune of several pounds of muscle?[/quote]

Yes, but that is scientific fact that merely taking testosterone will indeed add muscle.

[/quote]

You stated that the people in the study who used a placebo gained nearly as much as the steroid users…which means that study doesn’t show much at all.

I am a little worried that you would dismiss that significant detail when it undermines what you are trying to claim.

No my reference to the study, was to show proof that someone could gain muscle by sitting around and not working out if on steroids. Which was proven by the study.

And on your second point you are agreeing with my initial point.

You or someone with better genetics might be able to get to 200 pounds easy, but someone who was 120 pounds at the start of their training and was 145 pounds after a few years of natural training did not have the necessary genetics to do so, even while stuffing a shitload of food down his gullet.

You are taking the 200lb mark out of context because the person I was referring to was an incredibly thin individual. for him to go from 145 pounds after years of training and eating to then go to over 200 pounds is not the same as an athletic guy using gear to reach 200 pounds and to imply I was using that as a universally applicable number is a bit disingenuous.

Also, we are talking 200 pounds at around 8-10% not 200 pounds 22 percent like a lot of gym rats with reasonable genetics naturally have which is quite easy.

So while I am saying a 120 pound incredibly small framed guy can get to 200 pounds and cut by using gear. I am not saying an athletic genetically gifted guy can only get to 200 pounds by using gear.

You are taking examples not intrinsic to my point and trying to tac them onto my argument as a whole, which creates an easily knocked down straw man but dances around the actual points.

In summary CT fletcher in as big as he is because of steroids, because of genetics and because of hard work, but no matter how hard he worked and how good his genetics were he would not look like he does without drugs.

Now to your OP, the reason people leave comments slagging off CT fletcher is because he lies, he calls people out for telling the truth, he tells unenhanced kids that doing half curls and 1/4 pull-ups got him those arms and his frame and that is cunty behaviour. Now he has the freedom and the right to dispense advice and say whatever the fuck he wants to say. And people have the right to call him out on it.

That is the answer to the thread. Or was it rhetorical?

272

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

We just had a poster claim that steroids are MAGIC and transform 120lbs skinny dudes into 200lbs behemoths with little to no significant extra training.

[/quote]

Easy now…no need to lie, he said that they ate to support their workouts and trained just as hard as the nattys.

[/quote]

This is a lie?

That poster then went on to blame guys going from 120lbs to 200lbs from steroid use alone.

[/quote]

No matter what routine you do how detailed your diet is. That is taken out of context and you know it. I feel like Huey Newton dying to explain the context of famous sayings to a bunch of snarling reporters for the 10th time in the Marriot.

“Power comes from the barrel of a gun, he never said power was the gun, ya dig”

Next day headlines read black radical says the only way to achieve aims is to kill police officers.

273

I think the real question, as ever, is:
“Should I listen to these morons?”
and the only answer I can provide, as ever, is:
“I don’t know. Go find out yourself.”

274

[quote]Der_Steppenwolfe wrote:
I think the real question, as ever, is:
“Should I listen to these morons?”
and the only answer I can provide, as ever, is:
“I don’t know. Go find out yourself.”[/quote]
Hey there.

275

Strong fitness hamster in here, very strong.

You guys flame the guys who flame the guys giving out “advice” when these guys have AAS or something similar coming out of their assholes like diarrhea.

If these guys were so knowledgeable why did they have to resort to cycles of drugs to improve their physique?

Ill tell you why, because nobody would give a flying fuck what they said or did when not looking like they do now. So what if Ct fletcher can curl 200lbs or whatever he can, so what if some pro bb’er gets trophies galore, if you use drugs and you go on youtube spouting what this and that works then you’re full of shit.

I dont even watch these guys videos and I can tell where the haters are coming from. Drug use is ok? Sure! Lets not forget how olympians get this drug use down to a T so they can cheat their way to gold. Because drugs dont help that much at the top of the game where it really matters…lmfao

The hamster in this thread is unbelievable.

WHy dont these guys come out with How-tos on drug cycles or what they use? Then they can apply their training methods and do whatever they want but to stand there and say how you can do this n that etc, please! If I wanted to be spoken to like I am a dumb fuck I’d watch the mainstream news channels.

276

Hey. I’ve missed you guys. But I had to go and do some actual work or I’d have found out if it really was possible to fire myself. Plus, I had to go and chase skirt and I needed to get off the internet and do some weightlifting.

277

Maybe these guys have some good stuff to say, but I could’t make it past the 22 second mark. At that point I just logged off Youtube.

278

Kali does have incredible pulling strength though–that I give him. See stiff arm pullups.

279

[quote]harrypotter wrote:
Strong fitness hamster in here, very strong.

You guys flame the guys who flame the guys giving out “advice” when these guys have AAS or something similar coming out of their assholes like diarrhea.

If these guys were so knowledgeable why did they have to resort to cycles of drugs to improve their physique?

Ill tell you why, because nobody would give a flying fuck what they said or did when not looking like they do now. So what if Ct fletcher can curl 200lbs or whatever he can, so what if some pro bb’er gets trophies galore, if you use drugs and you go on youtube spouting what this and that works then you’re full of shit.

I dont even watch these guys videos and I can tell where the haters are coming from. Drug use is ok? Sure! Lets not forget how olympians get this drug use down to a T so they can cheat their way to gold. Because drugs dont help that much at the top of the game where it really matters…lmfao

The hamster in this thread is unbelievable.

WHy dont these guys come out with How-tos on drug cycles or what they use? Then they can apply their training methods and do whatever they want but to stand there and say how you can do this n that etc, please! If I wanted to be spoken to like I am a dumb fuck I’d watch the mainstream news channels.[/quote]

280

I will re-ask my question, as I think it got buried a long while ago.

Who SHOULD we look up to as a natural trainee?