[quote]JD430 wrote:
Chirst…Im really getting scared about where this country is headed.[/quote]
We’re headed somewhere? Tell me where, please, cuz all this time I have been thinking we’re not really headed anywhere.
Now seriously, Irish was using sarcasm to make a very valid point: don’t underestimate how much easier life is and how much easier it is to follow a more “respectable” path (like, become a white-collar criminal… ;-)) if you’re born in the “right” neighborhood. Yes, there are many role models out there that grew up in shitty neighborhoods, but don’t pretend it wasn’t 100x harder for them to pull through than if they had been born “uptown”… or had been born a white boy.
That doesn’t mean I feel that being poor is justification for joining (or much less, founding) a gang. It’s just that many white boys that had the life cut out of them and just waste it deserve much worse fates than what they get, and if they had been born somewhere else and / or looked any different, they would have had a much worse fate.
Gangsterism has been an integral part of American culture – including corporate culture – for a long time. Gangsterism is in fact ubitquous in corporate America… However white-collar gangsterism is, for some reason, less frowned upon, even though it is quite obvious it is as destructive as – if not more – than the non-white-collar variant.
Twas the night before execution
And right on Death Row
Little Tookie had insomnia
He knew he was next to go.
“I’m innocent! I swear!”
Was Tookie’s recurrent claim
(100% of inmates polled said the same).
He’d just about finished taking his evening crap
After which he’d lie down for his last voluntary nap.
Then out in the courtyard he heard quite a roar
He sprang from his seatless toilet to try and learn more
As he gazed out his barred window he saw quite a scene
A gathering of stars like he’d never seen.
Cameras and microphones, oh what a sight!
By the looks of the crowd it could have been Oscar night!
There was Dreyfuss and Danson, Mike Farrell looked snazzy.
(All right maybe not “Oscar”, but at very least “Razzie”)
“Free Tookie!” they cried.
“He’s a convicted killer!” Arnold shot back.
“Yeah… well… that’s not his fault.
He was born poor and black.”
They protested quite fiercely as elitists can
When defending a murderer (his victims be damned).
But Arnold held firm and gave the thumbs down
The Hollywooders finally left with a collective frown.
Tookie stepped back from the window, resignation in his eyes
And thought-“Damn. A little more time I’d have nabbed the Nobel Peace Prize!”
There is one bright spot for Tookie as he nears his end of days
His t-shirt is finally outselling Che’s
I just got finished reading the classic " The History of the Violent Negro In America " Terrific Story! I have many comments and suggestions and i will attempt to field them here.
First of all, ProfessorX, I find your arrogance extremely distasteful. Your appreciation for Mr. Williams and other underclass peoples is expected of people of your … bearing but you shouldn’t be so dramatic and flamboyount about it! Right So, if this Tookie was taken to england we would have thrashed him several times and thrown him to the dogs.
My carraige awaits me i will be travelin g fo a month in a Parisian resort completely stocked w/ fine wines and escargots. Tata!
[quote]GeorgeMontyIV wrote:
I just got finished reading the classic " The History of the Violent Negro In America " Terrific Story! I have many comments and suggestions and i will attempt to field them here.
First of all, ProfessorX, I find your arrogance extremely distasteful. Your appreciation for Mr. Williams and other underclass peoples is expected of people of your … bearing but you shouldn’t be so dramatic and flamboyount about it! Right So, if this Tookie was taken to england we would have thrashed him several times and thrown him to the dogs.
My carraige awaits me i will be travelin g fo a month in a Parisian resort completely stocked w/ fine wines and escargots. Tata! [/quote]
Congratulations on 4th posts… and none of them remotely as witty as you think them to be.
[quote]doogie wrote:
Or DOESN’T get convicted. You know shit like the OJ/Michael Jackson trial are just as fucked up.
It only takes 1 moron to get anyone a hung jury.[/quote]
Just curious, but have you ever sat on the jury for a murder trial?
I have recently and I know first hand that people who have never lived through that very unique experience have almost no clue about what goes on in that room once the door closes.
And, at least in NY State, there are some ways that the justice system “works” that make it very hard on jurors.
The one thing that drove me nuts was that we weren’t able to read the legal definitions of things such as “beyond a reasonable doubt” or the definitions of Murder in the 2nd degree and Manslaughter in the 2nd degree.
Knowing what I know now, I can see how a jury could end up taking the “easy” way out.
[quote]hspder wrote:
Gangsterism has been an integral part of American culture – including corporate culture – for a long time. Gangsterism is in fact ubitquous in corporate America… However white-collar gangsterism is, for some reason, less frowned upon, even though it is quite obvious it is as destructive as – if not more – than the non-white-collar variant.
[/quote]
TSB!!!
Sorry - but I will require more than just the opinion of Mr. Left-Wing before I will believe the premise that corporate America is more destructive than organized crime.
SOmetimes you almost get one by. But this peg is way too square for the round hole.
I see Jesse Jackson has come out and said that the Governator decided
‘to choose revenge over redemption and use Tookie Williams as a trophy in the flawed system’.
‘To kill him is a way of making politicians look tough,’ Jackson said.
What a crock of sh*t. Arnold agonized over the decision. Arnold did not give Tookie the death penalty. The courts did. And to claim that Arnold is using Tookie as a trophy? What rubbish. He has sought no political capital from this case. Rather, he has gone about the task of deciding whether or not to give clemency quietly, behind closed doors, and with dignity. It’s not often I will come out and back the Republican vs. the Democrat, but in this case right and wrong seem so clear. Unless the evidence points to Tookie’s innocence, the court’s decision should be upheld. And whatever the Governator decided, he was on a hiding to nothing as huge segments of the population would disagree with his choice.
[quote]AK47 wrote:
He looks pretty big…I wonder what his program is like…[/quote]
I read it somewhere. You kill someone do 10 sets of squats, kill someone else do 10 sets of Bench’s. Kill a third person then do 5 sets of your choice to failure.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Either way… these are this man’s last living hours. I wonder what is going through his mind- [/quote]
I think he is wishing he hadn’t killed all those people. Then again he might be bitter that Arnold did not stop the execution. Who knows?
Also for the death penalty to actually work we need to execute killers with in a certain period of time, giving them no hope for long term imprisonment.
If that were the case then others would think twice before pulling the trigger. The way it stands now the punishment is not swift or certain and would be killers don’t get the message. So there is no deterent.
Let’s do it right or forget about the death penalty.
First of all, ProfessorX, I find your arrogance extremely distasteful.
[/quote]
Most people around here feel that way. Telling him about it may lead you on a lenghty debate where he will twist and turn with the wind never really making sense, but always acting with great hubris.
[quote]firemedichcfr14 wrote:
Most people around here feel that way. Telling him about it may lead you on a lenghty debate where he will twist and turn with the wind never really making sense, but always acting with great hubris.[/quote]
[quote]rainjack wrote:
firemedichcfr14 wrote:
Most people around here feel that way. Telling him about it may lead you on a lenghty debate where he will twist and turn with the wind never really making sense, but always acting with great hubris.
Not ‘most’. At best, ‘some’.
Did I mention he can be a huge asshole? [/quote]
I thought it took one to know one? You have to forgive “firemedichcfr14”. he thinks he actually knows what’s going on. The fact that he agrees with trolls doesn’t surprise me.
I don’t think that there are many folks that are more staunchly pro-death penalty than I am.
But that beiung said, for some reason, when ever I read about the convict’s last meal, it hits me pretty hard. This guy will never eat another meal again. His time is no longer measured in days, but in hours, then minutes, then seconds.
What goes through their mind at this point? Could you eat a meal knowing that you are going to be strapped to a gurny in a few hours, never again to stand on your own two feet? Is there regret? Panic? Overwhelming fear?
But then I think about the victims. They weren’t afforded the courtesy of a last meal, nor the opportunity to plead their case to the Governor. They never had the chance to say goodbye to their loved ones. Nope - those courtesies were never extended to them. They did nothing to deseve their fate, yet Tookie Williams became their executioner.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
I don’t think that there are many folks that are more staunchly pro-death penalty than I am.
But that beiung said, for some reason, when ever I read about the convict’s last meal, it hits me pretty hard. This guy will never eat another meal again. His time is no longer measured in days, but in hours, then minutes, then seconds.
What goes through their mind at this point? Could you eat a meal knowing that you are going to be strapped to a gurny in a few hours, never again to stand on your own two feet? Is there regret? Panic? Overwhelming fear?
But then I think about the victims. They weren’t afforded the courtesy of a last meal, nor the opportunity to plead their case to the Governor. They never had the chance to say goodbye to their loved ones. Nope - those courtesies were never extended to them. They did nothing to deseve their fate, yet Tookie Williams became their executioner.
I wonder what his last thought’s were.[/quote]
They said he didn’t eat a last meal. My only concern is how we will be judged for putting someone to death. I wonder if in 200 years this won’t look prehistoric. I still don’t see how killing someone makes us better than them. I do support the death penalty in some cases. This one was strange because of the length of time since the crime. I think Arnold reviewed the info and made a fair decision. I just don’t think I completely agree with the use of the death penalty in all cases.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I don’t think that there are many folks that are more staunchly pro-death penalty than I am.
But that beiung said, for some reason, when ever I read about the convict’s last meal, it hits me pretty hard. This guy will never eat another meal again. His time is no longer measured in days, but in hours, then minutes, then seconds.
What goes through their mind at this point? Could you eat a meal knowing that you are going to be strapped to a gurny in a few hours, never again to stand on your own two feet? Is there regret? Panic? Overwhelming fear?
But then I think about the victims. They weren’t afforded the courtesy of a last meal, nor the opportunity to plead their case to the Governor. They never had the chance to say goodbye to their loved ones. Nope - those courtesies were never extended to them. They did nothing to deseve their fate, yet Tookie Williams became their executioner.
I wonder what his last thought’s were.
They said he didn’t eat a last meal. My only concern is how we will be judged for putting someone to death. I wonder if in 200 years this won’t look prehistoric. I still don’t see how killing someone makes us better than them. I do support the death penalty in some cases. This one was strange because of the length of time since the crime. I think Arnold reviewed the info and made a fair decision. I just don’t think I completely agree with the use of the death penalty in all cases.[/quote]
Everything about this case has seemingly made me feel sad and sick - whether it was the fact that the victims seemed forgotten in all the Hollywood hype or whether it was the fact that executing Tookie would not actually change anything (the victims will still be long gone, their families will still miss them and gang violence will just continue) or whether it was wondering whether if Tookie truly changed/repented should be completely ignored. I would be really curious to hear from the families of the victims today or in 5 years to see if this execution really brought them any closure. I have a hard time believing it will. It reminds me of when Michael Jordan’s father was murdered and Jordan said he didn’t want the death penalty for the two criminals who did it since it was not going to bring his dad back.
I saw the news up on one of the TVs in the gym this morning showing scenes surrounding the Tookie case and it made me stop and reflect a little bit. The only conclusion I really came to was that we really did not gain much but satisfy some kind of need for vengeance. I guess I agree with some of the other posters on here - aren’t we better than that in the end? I suppose that’s my own personal view of being a Christian/Catholic talking, but I struggle to see what we’ve accomplished here.
Just about the only thing I can hope to contribute to this conversation: A mildly creepy coincidence…Today is Jamie Foxx’s birthday. And Jamie Foxx played Tookie in the movie “Redemption”. Pretty odd.
[quote]Rainjack wrote:
But that beiung said, for some reason, when ever I read about the convict’s last meal, it hits me pretty hard. This guy will never eat another meal again.[/quote] Deadmaneating.com has a listing of executed criminals last meals. I was wandering around there yesterday, thanks to morbid curiousity, and I’ll admit that after a few minutes, that same thought hit me. It really was a headtrip. This is the last food the person will ever eat. Ever.
