The Fate of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
289

You can debate that killing this man would not make a difference 20 yrs later. Tell that to the remaining family members of the victims. That is due justice for those people. Killing 4 people in cold blood, with no remorse, and people were trying to rally to spare his life?Unbelieveable.

Think of all the people he seen murdered by the hands of others and was an accomplice to that we don’t even know about. No one likes to see a person get executed but let’s face it. There are some bad people out there. They need to be treated as such and do not deserve the privilage of being a part of society, institutionalized or not, when commiting such violent acts.

I think this writing of books and turning his life around was all part of a well thought out plan to give a criminal another chance. I commend govenor Arnold for not backing down!

290

Although I am against clemency in this situation, its sad that five lives were wasted. Tookie was obviously a charismatic and intelligent man who could have done great things with his life had he chosen to do so. Maybe if his father had chosen to stay and teach his son, that might have helped, who knows. Either way, Tookies life was not wasted last night, it was wasted 25 years ago. Tookie got 25 years to age and reflect upon his life, and was lucky to get that.

I guess my feelings on this can be summed up with one phrase, ‘what a waste’.

291

On a side note, I must say I was impressed by the level of actual discussion that occurred in this thread. It’s pretty much what I hoped for when I started it since I was wrestling with a lot of these issues and wondered what others were thinking as well. This could have degraded into the typical Political Forum pissing match, but it never did.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, thanks. For once, I felt like I (GASP!) learned something on the Politics Forum.

292

[quote]Professor X wrote:

They said he didn’t eat a last meal. My only concern is how we will be judged for putting someone to death. I wonder if in 200 years this won’t look prehistoric. I still don’t see how killing someone makes us better than them.[/quote]

I look at it like this… From records the death penalty has been around forever. This man did something in a brutal way killing 4 people then mocking Albert Owens dealth. No one is saying killing ‘Tookie’ Williams is making us better but it to me is the right choice to do it. A life is the most precious thing humans have… their is no coming back from dealth and life is only so short we must live it to the fullest, now in saying that he prematuraly ended 4 peoples life without a second thought, why should their be a second thought on his life?

Why must the victims family pay for this man to live (through taxes) in a comfortable place even tho it has it’s limitations. He is fed well, sleeps well on a warm cot while the victims family pay taxes in order to keep him alive. That seems unfair to me. He ended a life for selfish purposes and he deserves to die for it

If you cannot support the dealth penalty on this case you do not support it at all. If you also don’t not believe in the penalty in all cases (such as this one) you certainly don’t beleive in dealth penalty at all… I mean look at the facts…

This man killed 4 people, showed no remorse then or now for his actions and even denies it, founded one of the top gangs in this country and will not publicly denouce his membership in the Crips gang and all is to be made better because he wrote a few books about not to enter gang life… and then turns into a hypocrite for not denoucing his statis in one?

He deserved to die, should have died sooner… and personally I think they should of sent him down to Texas and fried him because of what he did and his life amounted too.

293

[quote]Kuz wrote:
On a side note, I must say I was impressed by the level of actual discussion that occurred in this thread. It’s pretty much what I hoped for when I started it since I was wrestling with a lot of these issues and wondered what others were thinking as well. This could have degraded into the typical Political Forum pissing match, but it never did.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, thanks. For once, I felt like I (GASP!) learned something on the Politics Forum.[/quote]

Definitely - no matter what side of the death penalty you come down on, the issue is a tough one. Killing a man in civil society is a grave deal - hard questions with rarely a comfortable answer.

294

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I will believe the premise that corporate America is more destructive than organized crime.[/quote]

I did NOT say that. Read what I wrote again. I said that white-collar gangsterism is. So I’m comparing criminals to criminals. I did not say or imply that corporate America in general is more destructive than organized crime. That would be insane, even for me. :wink:

295

You really do need to relax.

I asked a question and then said that what was to follow wasn’t really specifically for you… so that you wouldn’t take it as any type of personal attack… now, if you choose to view such things as accusations and applying specifically to you, that is your choice.

296

I’m not in favor of the death penalty, since I believe it won’t be a deterrant.
Broadcasting executions in the classroom will send kids the message that taking a life is ok. If the state does it, why wouldn’t an individual be allowed to do it? Lead by example and all that.

That being said, I am in favor of justice. When someone is convicted to do time in jail, he should do time in jail. And he shouldn’t be allowed to wait 6 years before he reports to the prison either.

When somebody is fined, he should pay the fine. And he should do that now, or next week the latest. Not when it’s convenient for him.

So when someone gets the death penalty, and after all legel options are “exhausted”, the sentence should be carried out switly. And I deliberately use the word “exhausted”. Often trials drag on for years and years because all parties involved don’t have any incentive to get the case moving. Meanwhile lawyers make more money. The judge can pretend he’s busy on a lot of (old) cases. While the victims and even the defendant is left in the dark.

I can imagine that someone charged with a small crime wants to get it over with and be able to get on with his life. But nooh, it has to drag on and on.

This should not be allowed. Got to keep the ball moving.

Had they kept the ball moving in this case, there wouldn’t have been any doubt.
Can you execute someone for crimes he commited 24 years ago? If you think you can, then can you sentence someone for a robbery he did 24 years ago? A theft? Speeding?
You see the problem her. There’s an urgancy to justice. But everybody acts like they have all the time in the world.

297

[quote]Professor X wrote:

They said he didn’t eat a last meal. My only concern is how we will be judged for putting someone to death. I wonder if in 200 years this won’t look prehistoric. I still don’t see how killing someone makes us better than them. I do support the death penalty in some cases. This one was strange because of the length of time since the crime. I think Arnold reviewed the info and made a fair decision. I just don’t think I completely agree with the use of the death penalty in all cases.[/quote]

Actually, the length of time between sentencing and carrying out the punishment isn’t excessive for a death penalty case. These cases often take more than 20 years to wend through the system, exhaust the appeals, etc. This is the case, at least partly, because of the serious nature of the death penalty, and, really, it’s part of the system of checks to make certain that an innocent person isn’t executed.

298

[quote]Can you execute someone for crimes he commited 24 years ago? If you think you can, then can you sentence someone for a robbery he did 24 years ago? A theft? Speeding?
You see the problem her. There’s an urgancy to justice. But everybody acts like they have all the time in the world.[/quote]

The legal system convicts criminals 15-20-30 yrs after the crime has been committed based on new evidence (DNA), etc all the time these days. The system should be more timely for sure. Saying that he shouldn’t get his due because he appealed it is not right either. Keep in mind a traffic violation is far less severe than a felony.

299

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Did I mention he can be a huge asshole? [/quote]

Well, I can’t disagree with you on that.

300

[quote]firemedichcfr14 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Did I mention he can be a huge asshole?

Well, I can’t disagree with you on that.

[/quote]

LOL.

RJ’s got a new friend.

I wouldn’t drop the soap near this one, buddy.

301

[quote]Professor X wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
That’s truly idiotic.

Wait a second. You jump on Vroom for talking down to you (as you took it), but now my posts are idiotic? As long as the gloves are off.

Never once have I posted that a person can’t change. I have stated that a 4 time convictted cold blooded murderer is probably not rehabilitatable. But have always left open the fact that people could change.

So, you are arguing the point made because…

In fact I used the change over time thing to equate to President Bush> When you and the other haters bring up his college past. So for the last time–people can change,even that though doesn’t mean they deserve clemency.

If they have changed, then what are we killing them for? The issue is whether the act of killing someone in retribution for an act is humane enough for us to casually accept it as a way of life without trying to change it at all. I haven’t seen anyone on this board attempt to excuse the act of murder. The question is, how does us murdering the murderer put us above them?[/quote]

If you want my feelings on the death penalty, I would say I could live without it. It doesn’t elevate us, but it is not murder. Somantics do not play well here sir.

I must admit as I watched the news reports last night and the hour came nearer, I got a funny feeling in my stomach. Not that I necessarily felt bad about this particular case or even the death penalty per se, but about a man sitting and waiting to die. I can’t explain it really, but it was a thought provoking time.

It will be interesting to see how my reaction chasnges or not when Scott Peterson is due. I realize many will go before him, but because the case played out so publically in front of me, and I feel like I really know what he did to his wife and child, I’m interested to know how I will react.

I’d be lieing if I said this thread, this moment in time, this banter didn’t make me reevaluate certain things.

302

[quote]GeorgeMontyIV wrote:
I just got finished reading the classic " The History of the Violent Negro In America " Terrific Story! I have many comments and suggestions and i will attempt to field them here.

First of all, ProfessorX, I find your arrogance extremely distasteful. Your appreciation for Mr. Williams and other underclass peoples is expected of people of your … bearing but you shouldn’t be so dramatic and flamboyount about it! Right So, if this Tookie was taken to england we would have thrashed him several times and thrown him to the dogs.

My carraige awaits me i will be travelin g fo a month in a Parisian resort completely stocked w/ fine wines and escargots. Tata! [/quote]

I know Kuz called you out for this dribble, but I wanted to cast my vote along with his about how idiotic and repulsive this is. It probably should be just left in the garbage can, but I find it in such poor taste I wanted you to know your attempt to communicate anything meaningful was missed. You are excused

303

[quote]GeorgeMontyIV wrote:
I just got finished reading the classic " The History of the Violent Negro In America " Terrific Story! I have many comments and suggestions and i will attempt to field them here.

First of all, ProfessorX, I find your arrogance extremely distasteful. Your appreciation for Mr. Williams and other underclass peoples is expected of people of your … bearing but you shouldn’t be so dramatic and flamboyount about it! Right So, if this Tookie was taken to england we would have thrashed him several times and thrown him to the dogs.

My carraige awaits me i will be travelin g fo a month in a Parisian resort completely stocked w/ fine wines and escargots. Tata! [/quote]

What year is it now? 1894?

304

sasquach, you appear to need the saving of more than just our tomfoolery. I must insist that you scurry back to your cubicle at once. It is highly likely that either George or I own some part of the company in which you are currently enslaved. Your lack of productivity in general is costing us money. Shew- Shew now you little vermin. Off you go lest I instruct your shift supervisor to scold you publicly and toss you on the street.

As for this Tookie character, he is getting the rightful spanking that he has deserved. I have spoken with governor Arnold and relish the idea to discuss politics w/ a European.

Now he is obviously guilty, i think. He has been convicted guilty of a crime. I wish he would be forgiven by his maker!

305

tookie was a vicious killer, now he can BURN IN HELL!

306

[quote]littlericky wrote:
tookie was a vicious killer, now he can BURN IN HELL![/quote]

Tell us how you really feel man

307

With all this debate and talk, the most shocking, or the thing that struck me the most was seeing people protestors CRYING outside of San Quentin after the execution.

I’m glad as a taxpayer I no longer have to pay for his cable tv, food, water, health and dental plans any longer!

308

[quote]ZEB wrote:
littlericky wrote:
tookie was a vicious killer, now he can BURN IN HELL!

Tell us how you really feel man[/quote]

you won’t know until a motherf**** killed someone that you know and you feel the pain