Yep, and when people make great insightful points it’s enlightening and speaks to what they say, and when people blow it and act incoherently it’s enlightening and speaks to what they say. He did a good job keeping everyone in it.
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What good is a thought unexamined, or an opinion that can’t stand up to a challenge?
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@Andrewgen_Receptors I’m really sorry to hear that things are tough at your house. It’s soul-crushing to have a marriage go sideways.
Given the nature of your thoughts regarding women and their natures, I wonder if your wife is displaying an integrity problem, and you’re trying to understand it through an evolutionary psychology frame. Because I was in that position in my first marriage, and tried all sorts of reframings to try to hold things together and find a solution.
At any rate, I’m just so sorry.
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I dunno about intrasexual but we all know that many women are able to manipulate men like puppets on a string, moreso than the other way around. We also know why that is.
It is said that ‘‘behind every great man is a great woman’’. I believe that to be true. God only knows how many historical figures did something because a woman was whispering in their ear. Shit, perhaps Napoleon thought it would be stupid to invade Russia but Josephine called him a ball-less midget. Left him with no options when she questioned his manhood. 
Shit, did you see how Will Smith’s wife remote controled him into smacking someone who was bothering her?
Maybe it refers to his mother.
Napoleon invaded Russia in 1812. His marriage to Josephine was annulled in 1810. That same year he married someone else.
That’s your history lesson for the day.
I try to not argue the extremes, rather the generalizations. Your examples are rather extreme, but we do agree in premise.
All men have an innate sense of female protectorism; to say that this isnt played upon by women, generally, is ludicrous.
Men can absolutely be manipulative, but women do not feel the need to protect men as men do women. It simply doesn’t work the same, nor is it as common as female manipulation. Though in sure the average male manipulation is worse than the average female manipulation.
Female manipulation also doesn’t necessarily mean “bad/evil”. Manipulating a scary man into thinking you’ll call him later is far safer an option than outright rejecting him.
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Well then, maybe if he had stayed with Josie she wouldn’t have let him do something so stupid.
Typical move, going after a younger piece of ass an fucking everything up.
Oh! too convincing – dangerously dear – In woman’s eye the unanswerable tear! That weapon of her weakness she can wield, To save, subdue – at once her spear and shield.
Lord Byron
Imo, manipulative personalities are fairly easy to spot and should be weeded out during the dating process.
I encountered them while single and as a man did not feel victimized by them.
If they were too toxic it was easy to not call them again. Otherwise you hopefully have your own lines and boundaries and make sure to define and reinforce them when the bullshit starts.
I think it’s also important to be careful not to confuse suggestion and manipulation, especially in a relationship where decisions usually affect both people.
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THe marriage was annulled on paper. Josephine couldn’t produce children so he needed a new woman. Considering that he was catholic, infertility was probably one of the only legit reasons for anullment.
His letters demonstrate that he was still attached to her after the marriage was broken
Napoleon said he loved Josephine but he didn’t respect her. Their relationship was not the same after she cheated on him.
That wasn’t the reason for the Church granting the annulment.
related
on average, women’s levels of sexual desire were not only lower than men’s at the beginning of their marriages, but much more variable than men’s. Men’s levels of sexual desire stayed higher and more constant than women’s throughout the duration of both studies.
Furthermore, declines in women’s sexual desire predicted declining marital satisfaction for both members of the couple.
Then I guess you can’t imagine being in love. Does “For better or for worse” not ring a bell?
Question: do you think “for better or worse” still applies if vows are forsaken?
To what extent do you put up with a spouse that doesn’t care about you or your needs, before the “for better or worse” falls apart?
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This is just encouraging sunk cost fallacy or at least an inefficient commitment device
The marriage contract should have to ge reevaluated and renewed on a regular basis or what is the incentive to keep putting effort.
Marriage is sort of like the relationship equivalent of tenure…….. works in some cases, but we’d probably be better off getting rid of it
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I don’t think we should get rid of it, I just don’t think the government should be involved in it at all.
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I didn’t mean marriage, I meant tenure.
The “for better or worse” clause of marriage vows is sort of like tenure.
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These guys aren’t in love. He refers to his wife as “lard ass” to his coworkers.
If you’re in a love and have a good marriage, and stop having sex due to age or health, that’s fine. I would expect that for everyone eventually.
I’m referring to young-ish, perfectly healthy people who just shouldn’t have gotten married, because really, they don’t love each other.
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If you can always re-negotiate, what is the incentive to put in work? Your concept of marriage causes the marriage fall apart as soon as you think you’re getting less than you’re putting in. And people are really bad at evaluating the contributions of a spouse compared to a personal contribution. You always see all of your own contributions and only some of your spouse’s contributions.
Spouses should keep communication open so that they can let each other know what’s working and what needs work. That’s different than “re-evaluating” the contract. The incentive to put in work is that you are already committed.
You’re choosing a new family member. You wouldn’t constantly re-evaluate or renew the contract with your parents, siblings, or children. They are your family and you are committed to them. That is the way marriage is supposed to work.
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This 100%. My wife has a really tough time with this. Or even if she acknowledges the stuff I do it is often deemed by her as something I like to do and doesn’t count. No, I didn’t enjoy fixing the tile in the shower, or repairing your car… It is like my tasks are my tasks, but her tasks are our tasks.
There is a also a reality that she creates a disproportionate amount of the mess. When I straighten up the house, it is 80% clutter that she took out and didn’t put back.
I think I do a pretty good job of seeing the stuff she does. I don’t give her a hard time about what she does. IDK, nothing has worked for me on getting her to see the things I do.
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