Have another pal!
I couldn’t resist. Carry on.
Coming in hot:
Do women (generalization) try to cut back the sex in order to seize control of the relationship?
Men, have you ever experienced this?
Women, have you ever done this?
No. For what purpose? Why would anyone want control of the relationship?
If I want something to be different, I talk about it. Manipulation should be beneath us, shouldn’t it?
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“Everything in the world is about sex except sex. Sex is about power.” - Oscar Wilde
This is a very mature way to handle things. A way that I approve of.
I have found that most women (generally speaking) would rather manipulate to get what they want, than to openly discuss it. Were I to put a reason to it: accountability evasion - an evolved trait.
But women are better manipulators than men anyways. It’s one of the reasons why women make such great spies/covert agents.
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No. And like Emily said, I don’t think it’s something adults (real adults) do.
Have you ever been married?
Have you ever been sexually rejected (for a bad reason) while in a long term relationship/marriage?
Yes, and no. (By bad reason, you’re not talking like “it’s late” or “I’m tired” kind of stuff, right?)
As an example:
Bad:
“Maybe if you did the dishes more often, I’d be in the mood”.
“I have a headache” - for 3 weeks straight, doesn’t take medication for it.
Good:
“I have a really big day tomorrow”
“I’m still really sore from last night”
OK. Then yeah, still no. I think if those things are being used, then the relationship as a whole is probably going badly.
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Well, right. But i dont think that necessarily speaks to your argument:
Kinda. My one longer term girlfriend would stop in the middle of oral to try to force a conversation about something.
Like, she wanted us to move in together, to my house. So she’s going at it, all good, then stops and says “My lease is coming due for renewal…”.
Of course, the answer was still no. There were a few other similar incidents, and the relationship was over.
I can’t tolerate that type of crap. That can’t be allowed to continue unchecked.
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I don’t think those thoughts are incompatible. If people withhold sex as a punishment because their relationship isn’t going well, well why isn’t it going well? Maybe because one or both people isn’t acting like an adult - communicating well, understand their partner’s needs, fulfilling their duties, etc.
Mature adults who do those things generally have good relationships and don’t have to use sex as a pawn in their bickering.
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I’m not sure this isn’t valid. But the communication would ideally sound more like “I’m too resentful right now to behave lovingly.”
Welcoming someone into your body should be done with a happy heart. Arguing about whose job the dishes are should be separate and one would hope pretty easily resolved.
So I guess we’re talking about generosity here, aren’t we? In both cases, the message one partner is looking for from the other is “I like pleasing you.”
Or, as @jshaving put it, “communicating well, understand their partner’s needs, fulfilling their duties, etc.”
Sex isn’t always going to be on everyone’s minds. When someone presents it as an idea/request, we hope our partner will say a cheerful “yes!” I think household help is somewhat the same.
Monday night we had company for dinner, which I cooked with the exception of the potatoes, which we both cooked in competition (little air fried potatoes) (because I’m cutting, mine were destined to lose). Actually I now realize that he also got the veggies ready to steam, so all I did was the fish. Hmm. Anyway, my impression at the time was that I’d cooked dinner while the two of them stood around the kitchen island and chatted. Afterward we were cleaning up, and I put the remainder of the food away. He mentioned the big steaming pot (3 piece) and I guess I plastered myself against the refrigerator and announced “I don’t want to clean that!” How I know I’d behaved oddly was that he plastered himself beside me against the refrigerator (like two spies almost getting caught) and said “Well, I don’t want to clean it!” After a second we both doubled over with laughter, and he did it. I was still giggling intermittently as I finished wiping everything down.
Sex should have the same spirit of fun and generous “yes!” in my opinion. Bitterness and resentment don’t belong in the bedroom but they also don’t belong in the kitchen. As foreplay begins over breakfast, so does emotional intimacy. I see you, and like it when you’re smiling.
I should note that there are often moments of pettiness and resentment at my house, going both directions. I don’t mean to suggest that we have it down pat. But there is an understanding that life is hard and we’re on the same team here.
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You are attributing to women a trait that speaks to character, not evolutionary biology. There are as many manipulative men. We often see them on these boards, pretending to want advice but after something else entirely. When you and @TrainForPain and @T3hPwnisher all offer the same advice, looking like you do and lifting what you do, and none of it works for an OP, there is a secondary goal, which is not the one that has been stated. Troll, validation of idiocy, whatever. It’s a people thing, not a women thing.
Women are much better liars, which has to do with our greater awareness and control of nonverbal communication. I can’t recall the numbers, but there have been studies of male vs female communication and we speak, if I remember correctly, more than twice as many words on average in a day than men do. Additionally, when two men are put in a room with randomly arranged chairs, they will end sitting side-by-side, whereas women will face each other. Really fascinating stuff. (Deborah Tannen is the researcher.)
Reading nonverbals has also been important to keeping women safe. Thousands of years ago and today, it’s good to be able to accurately judge the body language and facial cues of a potentially predatory male.
As with any area of relative strength (e.g. physical for you, enhanced discernment for me) it can be used for good or ill. That piece is character.
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I would argue it has more to do with men having a penis that will sometimes do the thinking.
I also wonder how much of this is more about culture than biology. Meaning, in other nations we might see different behaviors. For example, in Mediterranean cultures, men will be more demonstrative when speaking and will be closer to one another. They will also make physical contact while speaking as well as use non verbal communication more than Americans and/or Anglos.
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I saw a tag calling me out to the “dead bedroom thread,” and have to say I was prepared to have my feelings hurt…
Then you posted this and I’m incredibly flattered - thank you!
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Are you really saying that men are just as often manipulative as women are?
How did men compete with each other, historically?
How did women compete with each other, historically?
I’d say in many ways moreso. A lot of men do all kinds of manipulations to gain status at work, socially, within their marriage, like pretty much every aspect of life.
Thats not even getting into antisocial/narcissistic types. Those guys blow the freakin lid off.
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So you believe that men, in general, are more manipulative than women?
Yes. In many was as much, and other ways moreso.