The Dead Bedroom Thread

You (to hubs): I said something nice to you and i want you to say something nice to me.

You have to say this when not getting enough tokens for your love bank. Husband must deliver or you lose more tokens, possible that he loses tokens when capitulating (this was me, it may not be your hubs).
At best: +1 you, +0 him
At worst: -1 you, -1 him

Me (to wife): when you do things i genuinely appreciate, it makes me want to compliment you.

I have to say nothing and my love bank gets random deposits all the time. Not only does this make my wife happy, the compliments i give also fill her love bank. If neither deliver, no one loses tokens.
At best: +1 me, +2 her
At worst: +0 me, +0 her

I guess that’s why i just don’t like your way. It’s fine though - not like we’re married to each other so it’s just discussion.

This is problematic and unreasonable. It should also be unwanted. Imagine dating a 25 year old man, then getting married; when he’s 50 you would expect and want him to be the same person he was at 25?

1 Like

I’m absolutely not the same person my wife married.

It’s a good thing too. I make a lot more money and have actual goals and direction in life now. She seems to like this version of me more.

1 Like

And the minute you see your newborn child for the first time, you know you are no longer the same person you were a minute earlier. Those that don’t feel that way are future deadbeats.

1 Like

People say this a lot, but I quite disagree. I was always a man who would take care of his children. Seeing them didn’t make me that man.

3 Likes

It seems like nature vs. nurture is being discussed here.

I understood the original comment in context to mean that Emily’s husband was authentic in presenting himself while dating, as opposed to being a peacock of sorts. This makes sense to me regardless of change over time.

At a certain age I believe we are all more or less a blueprint of who we will be for the rest of our lives. Just like a house through time, paint colors may change, the kitchen may get remodeled but anyone familiar with the home will always recognize it.

It’s important give honest representations early as a mate decides to commit in order to avoid disappointing and potentially relationship ending mismatches from showing up later.

4 Likes

I interpret this as being a lot more fun and playful than anything. It seems relatable to how me & wife tend to play around.

2 Likes

But you aren’t a father until you are a father. Before that you are who you are, not what you will be. You could do certain things. You had different priorities and responsibilities. Note that I said you will KNOW that you are not the same person you were before. Believing you will feel a certain way when the time comes is not the same as feeling it when it happens.

I have 3 kids. I love them. I’m just saying that seeing them for the first time didn’t feel like a Eureka epiphany. Maybe it was overhyped, so it just didn’t meet expectations.

Not that it was bad. I was happy and am glad to have them. But I don’t think seeing them altered my being or something like that.

Couched in your statement that men who aren’t altered by seeing their children will become deadbeats is the implication that men without children are just all naturally deadbeats. I just don’t really agree.

3 Likes

I don’t have much of a stance on social equity. To be honest, I’m not even 100% what that means. Outside of TNation, I spend little time on the internet or social media, so I am only vaguely aware of the terms being used these days.

I don’t think being born “privileged” automatically leads to ruin. I think it’s fairly known that (many) family fortunes don’t last longer than 1-2 generations after the one who built them, so I don’t think “getting rich” should be one’s #1 goal for themselves and their family.

In my own experience, like I said, I’ve known of a few guys who got very (like, very) wealthy. Their kids did all the right stuff - stayed out of trouble, went to good colleges, etc. Some, if not most, inherited businesses and had their jobs pretty much lined up for them by the time they became adults. Once you get to the grandkids, you see a lot of spoiled, lazy behavior. Those kids have never had to work for anything. They’ve never even seen their family members work for anything. It was all just there by the time they were born. That’s when you start seeing issues. They flunk out of college, they develop addiction issues and get into legal trouble, they pick bad people to date and procreate with, etc. I know this isn’t the case for all wealthy families, but I think it’s safe to say it’s the case for many.

Hence, why “getting rich” shouldn’t be (merely in my opinion!) the #1 goal. It doesn’t last forever, and the good it may provide for a limited time can quickly turn to bad.

But there’s a middle ground between being poor and being rich. Striving to become a homeowner? Good! Great, actually. I’m disappointed that this is becoming more out of reach for people. Have a passion and want to start a business? Also great! I’m not saying people should stay stuck in poverty, but that maybe it’s not the best use one’s time to try to become a multi-millionaire, as if that will finally provide everything their family needs and end all sources of worries.

I don’t try to square my views with distribution of privilege. Generally, I don’t think taking anything from someone and giving it someone else who didn’t necessarily earn it solves anything long term. As far as largescale attempts of this, I think there are some genuine cases that could be examined where the U.S. broke legal promises with Natives regarding ownership of and access to land, but I don’t support the idea of reparations for descendants of slaves or anything like that, if that’s what you’re referring to.

I’ll quote the oft-repeated, “Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” That is generally what I believe, but the point of civilizations is to move from hard times to good times, so I don’t expect this cycle to ever really end. Things are getting uncomfortably easy though.

Depends on what you mean by “poor.” Like I said above, I don’t think people should intentionally stay truly poor. (Is anyone in America truly poor?)

For the most part, the best thing for marginalized groups would probably be to let them run things how they want. In the 1930s, Native tribes had a foreign form of government thrust upon them by John Collier and the BIA that has done nothing but cause issues to this day, and in cases where tribes have used their own forms of government, certain things have gone better. I could write pages about this, but many of the problems seen today in various communities are, in my opinion, due to the government stepping in and not letting groups govern themselves. If this was easier for people to do, marginalized groups wouldn’t be so marginalized.

To the last comment, yes! I’m not trying to convince you to do it my way, just looking at it.

You keep trying to make my request transactional, but it truly is not. If I say something gushy and he grunts, he might get a playful push and “hey, ya big goon! you’re supposed to say nice stuff to me, too!” Otherwise it’s me, narrating our lives together, and I am inclined to appreciation. I say much of what I think, and I’m happy with my husband. So I say so. I find him appealing, and I say that, too. I think he’s like a Disney inventor dad type, sort of weirdly brilliant, and I also say that. I adore him. He knows. The problem comes when I feel taken for granted. In which case I simply say so. Cheerfully: “Hey! You’ve gotta say nice things, too!” It would maybe be different if I didn’t feel certain that he thinks/feels nice things about me. We’re not playing dating games. We’re married! We did that because of being in love with each other. We get to feel good and certain about that. The way you lay it out kind of reminds me of “The Rules,” which was a book that came out in the 90’s maybe. If you were “a Rules girl” there were all these…well, rules, lol.

The Rules - Wikipedia

These are the rules as named in the original book.

  • Be a “Creature Unlike Any Other”
  • Don’t Talk to a Man First (and Don’t Ask Him to Dance)
  • Don’t Stare at Men or Talk Too Much.
  • Don’t Meet Him Halfway or Go Dutch on a Date.
  • Don’t Call Him and Rarely Return His Calls.
  • Always End Phone Calls First.

“Rarely return his calls.” That’s the sense I get from what you’re saying. Keep your wife on edge!

Why would I manipulate to get my love bank filled? Why would he be stingy with love tokens? We have limitless tokens. Like the foosball table in our basement that takes quarters, but we can open it and take the quarters back out to reuse.

If he forgets to make deposits over enough time, I remind him. Often I get a joking response back (as the “tall” I mentioned in my first post about this). He may compliment my rice cooking or outstanding management of our FSA card (when he was in charge of it, the debit card got canceled). Or he may say things that out-mush me. Probably most likely is a jokey response in the moment and then mush later, maybe in a good morning text or such.

Exactly. Don’t be sweet to me to “win” me, then treat me like shit. Treat me sweetly because that’s what I deserve and the kind of marriage we both want. And in return I will continue to notice and appreciate you.

We had a fight once just before we were scheduled to leave for vacation. We were in the marital chill zone, and I asked what were we going to do about vacation, did he still want to go. And he said “not like this,” which led me to ask what he did want, and he answered “I want to be in love again!” So we did that. It ended immediately and completely when I said I wanted to be in love, too. And now we almost never have the duration of fight we used to because now we know how to end it: I want to be friends again; I want to be happy again; I want to be in love again.

I can’t think why anyone would not want authenticity in their marriage.

2 Likes

That sounds like you’re both very happy and comfortable with each other, and that neither one feels put upon.

My wife and I both had the put upon thing going for a while. Not good at all.

She had her axes to grind about a few of my behaviors, and I had a few of my own about hers. Main difference was that she was very vocal about hers, and I’m much more silent in general until I’ve had enough. Then Boom!

99% of it was communication based misunderstanding.

5 Likes

I mean, how could you not? My best friend and I have always joked that we’d become lesbians together “if the men thing doesn’t work out.” The joke is based on the assumption that being two agreeable women, there wouldn’t be anything but joy - the lesbian parties where we drink white wine and eat local cheese and process our feelings that you’ve heard about from me before.

And then we went into private practice together. We bought furniture together. We shared a lease and a phone system and had to - or felt we had to - coordinate practice names and business cards, and etc. I built us a website.

OMG, did we wind up having to communicate! I remember saying “When did I become our office manager? Why has it landed on me?”

Put-upon. I honestly wasn’t sure our friendship would survive. (It has! We’ve communicated our way through it.)

Thats what a lot of things ended up coming down to.

Why do I have to xyz? Since when did I become in charge of playdates & birthday party attendance?

Its interesting. We started our relationship in opposite ends of the introvert->extrovert continuum, but somewhere in the course of the last 20 years switched to me being the outgoing one, and her not wanting to be around people. Not that I openly embrace the role, but I can play it for a few hours every so often.

I think every couple goes through a phase of melding together. In a true commitment, two really do become one and this process doesn’t happen without some give and take. It’s frustrating as shit but I see it as a healthy aspect of a committed relationship.

A good thing about being authentic is that it protects you both later. You don’t wind up with a “not the person I married” horror story but you also get to stand your ground.

More than once I remember saying “was I doing ‘xyz’ when we met? Did I say ever say ‘xyz’ was negotiable?” And it gave me the leverage I needed both outwardly and as an internal matter of integrity to hold hard lines where I saw them as we shaped what “together” was going to look like.

Get all that shit out while dating and you don’t have to worry about fundamentals causing ripples later.

3 Likes

That’s illogical. A man would need to have kids to be a deadbeat. A man who isn’t a father can’t be a bad father.

Those sound like the rules to being an insufferable twat.

Yes indeed!

Which is why I brought it up. We’re really bringing this mindset into our marriages?

Yeah, I don’t think telling men to be one way and women another is the right way to go. It’s dogmatic and strips people of their individuality.

I can’t tell whether you’re agreeing with me or missing my point entirely.