Amen. Hopefully this thread will die soon. T-Nation is so much more than a couple of guys arguing over who knows what. Who cares?
[quote]Lexie wrote:
Amen. Hopefully this thread will die soon. T-Nation is so much more than a couple of guys arguing over who knows what. Who cares? [/quote]
I think this has been one of the best threads lately. The discussion moved from what Davies has or hasn’t said to analyzing his programs, which is what a training forum should be all about.
If you do not understand the concepts discussed, maybe you should read the archives a bit more. If you simply don’t care, don’t read this thread.
[quote]slotan wrote:
Lexie wrote:
Amen. Hopefully this thread will die soon. T-Nation is so much more than a couple of guys arguing over who knows what. Who cares?
I think this has been one of the best threads lately. The discussion moved from what Davies has or hasn’t said to analyzing his programs, which is what a training forum should be all about.
If you do not understand the concepts discussed, maybe you should read the archives a bit more. If you simply don’t care, don’t read this thread.
[/quote]
when you type “analyzing”, didn’t you really mean “rip apart at any cost and with any amount of lies necessary including accusing him of drug use covered up by saying “well, I didn’t read it myself, but I was told…””?
Stop the bullshit.
All the “discussion” of Coach D’s training has been bullshit. This thread has turned into an anti-Davies witchhunt spearheaded by one or two people.
oh please don’t make me do this…i really didn’t want to…oh what the hey. here goes.
[quote]BPC wrote:
What exactly are the questions that supposedly “haven’t been answered” by the Coach Davies/Renegade advocates? Can I see them in a logical fashion?
[/quote]
you have to be kidding me. go back to page 11 (about 5 posts up from the bottom) and read the post i addressed directly to you about renegade training methods and reasoning as well as questions to your responses to me. i compiled every question in an easy to read fashion just for you.
again what does this have to do with this here discussion?
this is not fruitless. however, you are making it fruitless by refusing to discuss and answer questions posed to you whilst making up new incoherent paragraphs that don’t say anything at all in reality.
[quote]One of my main points is this:
Most of the top strength and conditioning coaches in this field agree that some form of olympic lifting is one of the best ways to achieve many all around goals such as: improved strength, explosiveness, body awareness, they utilize the entire body versus isolation, target the all important “posterior chain” etc.[/quote]
thanks for the insight.
no.
it’s hard to get the big picture when none of the pieces of the puzzle fit together.
yes, agreed. {riiiiinnggg} oh wait hang on. {puts phone up to ear} “hello? what’s that? ok i’ll tell him.”
BP, the 1992 march issue of flex called, they want their paragraph back.
i would say that would be a wise idea.
i’m not trashin Davies. i’m asking questions about his methodontics?!?! (methodology + orthodontics??) or whatever what’s his name calls them. so far i’ve gotten nothing but double talk and and double talk (sorry that was my tourette’s kickin in) from people that do not even know any basic physiology (not that there’s anything wrong with that, just don’t comment when you don’t know what the crap you’re talkin about).
now, i know i’ve poked fun, but honestly, i’d rather you just take this and laugh it off and go back and answer the questions and i’ll leave you alone.
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
slotan wrote:
Lexie wrote:
Amen. Hopefully this thread will die soon. T-Nation is so much more than a couple of guys arguing over who knows what. Who cares?
I think this has been one of the best threads lately. The discussion moved from what Davies has or hasn’t said to analyzing his programs, which is what a training forum should be all about.
If you do not understand the concepts discussed, maybe you should read the archives a bit more. If you simply don’t care, don’t read this thread.
when you type “analyzing”, didn’t you really mean “rip apart at any cost and with any amount of lies necessary including accusing him of drug use covered up by saying “well, I didn’t read it myself, but I was told…””?
Stop the bullshit. All the “discussion” of Coach D’s training has been bullshit. This thread has turned into an anti-Davies witchhunt spearheaded by one or two people.
[/quote]
Where have I lied? Point it out.
This isnt a witch hunt at all. Ive felt the way I have about Davies for years, Im here to defend Francis against some quite stupid accusations. The way this evolved is more a result of me adressing stupid statements than me attacking anything…
Someone must have a copy of the ESPN mag. It was mentioned in reader mail twice so atleast 3 people have read it…
[quote]erp7e wrote:
Does anyone else find it peculiar that this thread is one of the longest you can find on T-Mag? Aren’t we supposed to be here discussing training, nutrition, and other T-Man oriented stuff?
[/quote]
You do realise that the other long threads are predominantly in the sex and politics forums… Funny that youd say it here esp considering this is the off topic forum
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
when you type “analyzing”, didn’t you really mean “rip apart at any cost and with any amount of lies necessary including accusing him of drug use covered up by saying “well, I didn’t read it myself, but I was told…””?
Stop the bullshit.
All the “discussion” of Coach D’s training has been bullshit. This thread has turned into an anti-Davies witchhunt spearheaded by one or two people.
[/quote]
What lies? Can you point out some of the “bullshit” or “witchhunt” exactly? But please, try to do better than just taking one sentence out of context, like you did above.
There were people on Davies’ side like Vegita or BPC who presented their experiences with Renegade-type workout. On the other side, Chris and boondoc supported their opinions from more theoretical (studies, references) standpoint. Although it did gat a bit heated at times, it was still a good read.
But then, there are a bunch of posts where people are saying something like “why can’t we all get along”. Or worse yet, posts by people who seem to have no real knowledge or understanding of the concepts discussed. That, however, didn’t stop them from making plenty of “fuck off” and “this is bullshit” posts. These brought the quality of discussion down.
[quote]boondoc holiday wrote:
oh please don’t make me do this…i really didn’t want to…oh what the hey. here goes.
BPC wrote:
What exactly are the questions that supposedly “haven’t been answered” by the Coach Davies/Renegade advocates? Can I see them in a logical fashion?
you have to be kidding me. go back to page 11 (about 5 posts up from the bottom) and read the post i addressed directly to you about renegade training methods and reasoning as well as questions to your responses to me. i compiled every question in an easy to read fashion just for you.
Essentially, everybody that trains or works out on this forum IS doing well just to be training whether that be for bodybuilding, powerlifting, martial arts, fun, etc. That’s more than the majority of this highly obese population can say.
again what does this have to do with this here discussion?
Let’s forget about this Francis vs. Davies “beef” which is about as silly as 50 cent vs. The Game. Which by the way was called a truce. That’s beside the point, but nonetheless proving a point that this is fruitless. It’s silly banter back and forth and not constructive or edifying to anybody.
this is not fruitless. however, you are making it fruitless by refusing to discuss and answer questions posed to you whilst making up new incoherent paragraphs that don’t say anything at all in reality.
One of my main points is this:
Most of the top strength and conditioning coaches in this field agree that some form of olympic lifting is one of the best ways to achieve many all around goals such as: improved strength, explosiveness, body awareness, they utilize the entire body versus isolation, target the all important “posterior chain” etc.
thanks for the insight.
However, I’ve seen a lot of back and forth here basically over rep ranges and intensity levels (example: 80-90% of 1RM for 1-2 reps versus 30-60% of 1RM for 5 reps, etc) Isn’t this is a bad case of majoring on the minors?
no.
We are being too anal and not focusing on the big picture I think.
it’s hard to get the big picture when none of the pieces of the puzzle fit together.
Plus, I think we can all agree on the fact that using a variety of training tools (barbells, dumbells, sandbags, medicine balls, etc)and a variety of rep ranges w/a variety of tempos are beneficial to prevent stagnation regardless of your training goals.
yes, agreed. {riiiiinnggg} oh wait hang on. {puts phone up to ear} “hello? what’s that? ok i’ll tell him.”
BP, the 1992 march issue of flex called, they want their paragraph back.
I can quit poppin’ off at the jaws if you can too,
i would say that would be a wise idea.
but I just don’t like people trash talkin’ Coach Davies for no reason especially when the guy’s a class act and very giving.
i’m not trashin Davies. i’m asking questions about his methodontics?!?! (methodology + orthodontics??) or whatever what’s his name calls them. so far i’ve gotten nothing but double talk and and double talk (sorry that was my tourette’s kickin in) from people that do not even know any basic physiology (not that there’s anything wrong with that, just don’t comment when you don’t know what the crap you’re talkin about).
now, i know i’ve poked fun, but honestly, i’d rather you just take this and laugh it off and go back and answer the questions and i’ll leave you alone.
[/quote]
Yeah, you have poked fun you smart ass! You think you are real tough talkin’ smack electronically. OOOooowwww. What a tough guy!
I was trying to be cordial and constructive but you ruined it with your selfish and arrogant talk. I’m done w/this fruitless (yes, fruitless because you made it this way). So go ahead and talk negative about Coach Davies and Renegade training. I guess that makes you feel like a “big” man. I was trying to be positive and mature about this whole thing but obviously you are incapable of that.
[quote]Yeah, you have poked fun you smart ass! You think you are real tough talkin’ smack electronically. OOOooowwww. What a tough guy!
I was trying to be cordial and constructive but you ruined it with your selfish and arrogant talk. I’m done w/this fruitless (yes, fruitless because you made it this way). So go ahead and talk negative about Coach Davies and Renegade training. I guess that makes you feel like a “big” man. I was trying to be positive and mature about this whole thing but obviously you are incapable of that.
[/quote]
annnnnnnnnddddd that’s the last of them. i think that about sums it all up.
for the record BP, i am sorry (again) but you kept going so i had no choice. please forgive me for poking too much. i didn’t intend to upset you.
Well this thread has once again devolved, I don’t see what the problem with us discussing training points on a training forum is. Even the authors don’t agree on all training points, sometimes it’s actually better to learn through discussion and it’s not like this is required reading for anyone but the moderators.
At that level, bar eating cake, i am sure that with the majority of top coaches, they would have been there or there abouts anyway.
they are the genetically gifted.
[quote]Chris Aus wrote:
erp7e wrote:
Does anyone else find it peculiar that this thread is one of the longest you can find on T-Nation? Aren’t we supposed to be here discussing training, nutrition, and other T-Man oriented stuff?
You do realise that the other long threads are predominantly in the sex and politics forums… Funny that youd say it here esp considering this is the off topic forum
[/quote]
Offtopic, fine. Offtopic for a MAN on this board should include sex, beer, sports, etc. Not taking sides in a personal war between two people most of us don’t know personally. That’s gossip. If you like that you should go watch E! or Joan Rivers, not read T-Nation. If you are CLOSE PERSONAL friends with either Davies or Francis then I suppose I can understand your stake in this matter.
Otherwise, who cares. It’s all about good training methods. If Saddam Hussein wrote up a killer leg routine, I’d still use it if it works.