The Boxing Thread III

Training
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[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I disagree that Hatton is overrated. He’s the best 140 out there, period. Not to mention the only loss is against the greatest living fighter active. Not a bad track record. [/quote]

Not bad, but he’s in a weak division. He clenches so much he should look into MMA or wrestling. He style is simply obnoxious, even if it wins fights, and I’m glad Floyd tooled him. Oh, and his training ethics are horrible, too.

He walks around at close to 180, and only gets in shape when he has to. He’s called “Ricky Fatton” for a reason. He doesn’t have the heart of a true champion.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Manny is the same height as Hatton. In boxing, that fifteen pound difference is huge, especially because a bigger fighter doesn’t equal a better fighter. Manny would have to go up to 150 to fight Mayweather, because Floyd isn’t going to come down. [/quote]

No way in hell is there a 15 pound difference in their REAL weights, just weigh-ins. Manny weighs over 145 pounds when he actually steps into the ring, fully rehydrated after the weigh-in, while I think Floyd is a legitimate 150 pound man, who fights larger guys to show how good he is.

That is a huge part of why he’s so respected. But between Pacquiao and Floyd, there’s less than 5 pounds in their actual fighting weights, and Pacquiao is also a bit leaner than Floyd is. Their true sizes are really similar.

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[quote]Higher Game wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
I disagree that Hatton is overrated. He’s the best 140 out there, period. Not to mention the only loss is against the greatest living fighter active. Not a bad track record.

Not bad, but he’s in a weak division. He clenches so much he should look into MMA or wrestling. He style is simply obnoxious, even if it wins fights, and I’m glad Floyd tooled him. Oh, and his training ethics are horrible, too. He walks around at close to 180, and only gets in shape when he has to. He’s called “Ricky Fatton” for a reason. He doesn’t have the heart of a true champion.

FightinIrish26 wrote:
Manny is the same height as Hatton. In boxing, that fifteen pound difference is huge, especially because a bigger fighter doesn’t equal a better fighter. Manny would have to go up to 150 to fight Mayweather, because Floyd isn’t going to come down.

No way in hell is there a 15 pound difference in their REAL weights, just weigh-ins. Manny weighs over 145 pounds when he actually steps into the ring, fully rehydrated after the weigh-in, while I think Floyd is a legitimate 150 pound man, who fights larger guys to show how good he is. That is a huge part of why he’s so respected. But between Pacquiao and Floyd, there’s less than 5 pounds in their actual fighting weights, and Pacquiao is also a bit leaner than Floyd is. Their true sizes are really similar.[/quote]

Hatton didn’t impress me at all in the mayweather fight. i’m surprised it lasted as long as it did.

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[quote]red bull wrote:
juice20jd wrote:
i feel for Marquez. the guy has had a lot of controversial decisions go against him.

he won against chris john. the decision says otherwise.

he won the first fight with Pac IMO (and most boxing analysts). personally scored it 114-111 (even with the 10-6 round). Pac only won 3 rounds that fight and was totally outboxed. Just look at his face at the final bell…the look of a man who knows he lost. Result - draw. stranger things have happened.

I’ll have to watch the second fight again. there were a couple rounds which could have been called even. had marquez by 2 points. effective counter punching and ring generalship over aggression in my eyes. but on second analysis it could look different. won’t call this decision controversial though. as it was an extremely close fight. a SD is not a suprise at all.

either way, a great fight and there needs to be a third, hopefully with a CLEAR winner.

looking forward to Joe C and Nard. can’t see old man b-hops winning with his 10 punch per round output against Calzhage’s far superior workrate, but he’s beat the odds before.

good to see this thread ressurected.

I never had JMM winning the first fight. No mistakes, he came back fantastically but Pac still won some of the later rounds imo. Not to mention the point scorring error…

But I agree, I would love to see a third and final encounter between these two…

Btw, guys got any predictions on Katsidis vs Casamayor??

[/quote]

i don’t know how any objective scoring can have Pac winning the first fight. He won rounds 1,2 and 10. The only other round which could be close enough to give to pac was the 7th (and maybe the 8th, but JMM did enough there). Even with the 10-6 round…9 rounds to 3, or 8 rounds to 4 still comes out 114-111, or 113-112. The draw is acceptable because there was a round in there which could have gone either way. But no way pac won clearly or convincingly. The only judge who was close on that card gave the draw.

The second fight is a different story though. Rewatched it and the knockdown made all the difference in the final scoring for me. 114-113 Pac. A very very close fight. No robbery here…just a close competetive fight. These guys styles are made for eachother.

There should be a 3rd. It would most likely be at 135. But it needs to be soon since Marquez is getting older, not better.

It would make a great trilogy.

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[quote]Higher Game wrote:
Pacquiao is a huge weight cutter, more like an MMA guy than a boxer. He cuts from 145 to make 130, and he uses power to win fights, quality over quantity, and that power is just something that doesn’t translate well on a television screen compared to ringside. His punches simply count for more than the opponent’s, usually. He deserved that win over Marquez, period.

This sounds crazy, but I actually think he could move up and challenge Floyd. He’s only an inch or so shorter, and Floyd’s regular 147 pound weigh-in doesn’t involve much cutting at all. Hell, Floyd weighed in at only 150 for the De La Hoya fight, when the limit was 154! They’re actually about the same size, so they should fight, instead of Pacquiao beating up much smaller guys.

That fight would be bigger, and more competitive, than Floyd beating up an undersized, overrated Hatton or an old De La Hoya. It would be awesome.[/quote]

Don’t see Pac moving up to fight floyd no matter what he walks around at post weigh in. That amount of weight makes a huge difference. Hatton is a massive “weight cutter” …and look what a one class weight jump did to him during his brief stint at 147. Floyd was the bigger man, yet ricky fatton walks around at 180 when not training. And now Pac is gonna go up from 130 to 154? The catchweight would have to be in the 140 range for this fight to be even remotely competetive.

Hatton is not overrated. He simply needs to remain at 140, where he is the man for now.

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[quote]Higher Game wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
I disagree that Hatton is overrated. He’s the best 140 out there, period. Not to mention the only loss is against the greatest living fighter active. Not a bad track record.

Not bad, but he’s in a weak division. He clenches so much he should look into MMA or wrestling. He style is simply obnoxious, even if it wins fights, and I’m glad Floyd tooled him.
[/quote]

It’s not that weak at all. He made Tszyu quit, he murdered Castillo with that liver punch, and hounded Floyd for ten rounds. The guy is no joke. Just because you don’t like his style doesn’t mean he’s not legitamate. He fights alot like the old Italian fighters, the Marciano’s and LaMotta’s, clinching, leaning, and then slugging. You don’t end up seeing the punches that hurt that most.

He’s going to end up fighting paul malignaggi, and I’m sure Junior Witter eventually. He ain’t fightin’ in a vacuum.

As a guy that loves drinking, I know how Ricky feels. However, the older he gets, the harder it’s going to be to go up and down between fights. He’ll catch on to that. You have no idea whether or not he has the heart of a true champion- he lost his first fight 3 months ago, and the next two years will absolutely prove what kind of person he has, and whether or not he is a true champ. Stop talking out of your ass- he’s still the best 140 out there.

I might be a bit biased because he’s my favorite fighter, but, if nothing else, that motherfucker is all heart.

[quote]

No way in hell is there a 15 pound difference in their REAL weights, just weigh-ins. Manny weighs over 145 pounds when he actually steps into the ring, fully rehydrated after the weigh-in, while I think Floyd is a legitimate 150 pound man, who fights larger guys to show how good he is. That is a huge part of why he’s so respected. But between Pacquiao and Floyd, there’s less than 5 pounds in their actual fighting weights, and Pacquiao is also a bit leaner than Floyd is. Their true sizes are really similar.[/quote]

Guys fight differently at different weights. When you’re used to fighting lightweights, fighting a true heavy welterweight is going to be culture shock.

I’m sure Pacquiao could function, but many of the shots that knockout a 130 pounder are going to be eaten by a 154 without a problem.

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[quote]juice20jd wrote:

Hatton is not overrated. He simply needs to remain at 140, where he is the man for now. [/quote]

Agreed. That’s where he’s the best.

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Pacquiao would have to adjust to fighting faster and with more endurance instead of relying on pure power, but there is no physical reason why he couldn’t move up. It’s just his style, attitude, and game plan that would have to change, but that should be doable for a professional athlete.

Hatton didn’t lose because he moved up; he lost because Mayweather schooled him. For such a big weight cutter, 7 pounds isn’t much at all. He only won 1 or 2 of those rounds at all. It was a comfortable, profitable, easy win for Mayweather.

Oh, and Castillo is old and should quit. He can’t even make weight properly anymore.

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[quote]Higher Game wrote:
Pacquiao would have to adjust to fighting faster and with more endurance instead of relying on pure power, but there is no physical reason why he couldn’t move up. It’s just his style, attitude, and game plan that would have to change, but that should be doable for a professional athlete.

Hatton didn’t lose because he moved up; he lost because Mayweather schooled him. For such a big weight cutter, 7 pounds isn’t much at all. He only won 1 or 2 of those rounds at all. It was a comfortable, profitable, easy win for Mayweather.

Oh, and Castillo is old and should quit. He can’t even make weight properly anymore.[/quote]

20 pounds is too much. Pac’s shots would bounce off a legit 154 lber like nothing. 135, sure, he would fit there easily. 140? In a few years/fights…but 154 is way too much for a natural 126 fighter to just leap to. If Pac was a defensive wizard ala swet pea, or a technical master…he could make the transition easier. But his power would be nothing at 154.

Hatton lost to Floyd simply because Floyd is…Floyd. Ricky was outclassed. The weight did make a difference though. Hatton is a monster at 140…and definately not a big Welter at 147. Look at his fight with Collazo at 147. He looked less than spectacular against a naturally bigger man. His style and natural attributes fit the 140 weight limit. At 147 he is not a top guy…because of the weight difference, and the 147 limit has a deeper talent pool.

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Floyd isn’t a legitimate 154 fighter. He weighed 150 for De La Hoya; I’m positive that this is his natural weight. And you’re right about the talent pool being richer at 147, which makes far more of a difference to Hatton than 7 pounds. It’s the talent.

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[quote]Higher Game wrote:
Floyd isn’t a legitimate 154 fighter. He weighed 150 for De La Hoya; I’m positive that this is his natural weight. And you’re right about the talent pool being richer at 147, which makes far more of a difference to Hatton than 7 pounds. It’s the talent.[/quote]

He’s said that he likes to stay around his fighting weight year round.

Let’s not forget that Floyd is in a class by himself as far as boxers go… comparing anyone to him is kind of riduculous at this point.

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[quote]juice20jd wrote:
Higher Game wrote:
Pacquiao would have to adjust to fighting faster and with more endurance instead of relying on pure power, but there is no physical reason why he couldn’t move up. It’s just his style, attitude, and game plan that would have to change, but that should be doable for a professional athlete.

Hatton didn’t lose because he moved up; he lost because Mayweather schooled him. For such a big weight cutter, 7 pounds isn’t much at all. He only won 1 or 2 of those rounds at all. It was a comfortable, profitable, easy win for Mayweather.

Oh, and Castillo is old and should quit. He can’t even make weight properly anymore.

20 pounds is too much. Pac’s shots would bounce off a legit 154 lber like nothing. 135, sure, he would fit there easily. 140? In a few years/fights…but 154 is way too much for a natural 126 fighter to just leap to. If Pac was a defensive wizard ala swet pea, or a technical master…he could make the transition easier. But his power would be nothing at 154.

Hatton lost to Floyd simply because Floyd is…Floyd. Ricky was outclassed. The weight did make a difference though. Hatton is a monster at 140…and definately not a big Welter at 147. Look at his fight with Collazo at 147. He looked less than spectacular against a naturally bigger man. His style and natural attributes fit the 140 weight limit. At 147 he is not a top guy…because of the weight difference, and the 147 limit has a deeper talent pool.

[/quote]

I agree.

Theres’ no one in the world at 140 who can beat Ricky Hatton. 147 is another story.

It obviously makes a difference.

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Jeeesus, have just this minute finished watching the Katsidis-Casamayor fight…

What a barnstormer!

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[quote]red bull wrote:
Jeeesus, have just this minute finished watching the Katsidis-Casamayor fight…

What a barnstormer![/quote]

Hahahaha. Burner?

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[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Theres’ no one in the world at 140 who can beat Ricky Hatton.[/quote]

I would like to see him give Witter a chance…

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heh, a touch of alan partridge there…

anyway, storm or fire, same bloody difference. Could have been both as far as Katsidis was concerned…

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[quote]red bull wrote:
heh, a touch of alan partridge there…

anyway, storm or fire, same bloody difference. Could have been both as far as Katsidis was concerned…

[/quote]

Hahaha Yea so i heard. I just missed the damn fight, caught the undercard with the German guy though.

I just don’t like German fighters. Too technical, no heart. Yuck.

77

I just watched Pacquaio-Marquez.

Marquez won that fight.

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[quote]red bull wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Theres’ no one in the world at 140 who can beat Ricky Hatton.

I would like to see him give Witter a chance…

[/quote]

I would too. But he fuckin hates him, and doesn’t want to give him the payday… but he’s going to have to fight him eventually.

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HEY HEY HEY!!! HATTON MAYWEATHER II??? GO RICKY!!!

Hatton eyes Wembley rematch

Ricky Hatton and Floyd Mayweather have agreed in principal to a rematch at Wembley Stadium next year. Promoters believe it could be one of the richest bouts in history, a bold claim considering the largest grossing fight of all time remains the $120m (£60m) generated when Oscar De La Hoya fought Mayweather in May last year.
Discussions were held between the two camps last month with both saying that should their men come through their fights for this year, they will face each other in the spring of 2009, some 16 months after they squared up in Las Vegas. Mayweather stopped Hatton in the 10th round, inflicting the only defeat in the Mancunian’s 44-fight record.

Hatton, who defends his IBO light-welterweight title against Juan Lazcano at the City of Manchester Stadium on May 24, is desperate to take on Mayweather again and this time, wants the fight on home-soil. The only venue deemed large enough to stage what would likely be the year’s most high-profile fight is the 90,000-seater Wembley and Mayweather’s agent Al Hayman has told Hatton’s co-promoter, Golden Boy Promotions, that his man is prepared to travel to London.
“Assuming both fighters keep on winning, the idea is that Floyd Mayweather will fight Ricky Hatton again,” said Richard Schaefer, the chief executive of Golden Boy promotions. “I spoke to Al Hayman about Mayweather coming to Wembley and he said ‘absolutely’. This fight could be a record-breaker, we’re talking at least £50m each.”

Money, however, is not the motivating factor for Hatton who, while admitting he was beaten by the better man when he took on Mayweather last December, remains frustrated with the conduct of the referee, Joe Cortez, who the 29-year-old says spoilt his early rhythm with a host of harsh calls. “I’d like to have another crack at Floyd with a referee on better form,” said Hatton. “If Floyd was to beat me again I could say, ‘now you know’.”

Mayweather faces De La Hoya in Las Vegas on September 20 in a rematch of their 2007 bout, which he won by split decision.

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Wow. Anyone see Cotto dismantle Gomez?

Brave guy, but completely outclassed.