Just saw the Roman-Escalante fight. nice little slugfest, and just to think it was all over a box of eggs ha ha class stuff. oh and Mayol should have protected himself but still, what a shame…
I know the heavyweights are a pariah around here, but i have to mention this past weekends dominant performance by Wlad Klitschko. He completley outclassed a talented top contender Eddie Chambers.
chambers was much smaller (6’, 211lbs) but has proven that he can beat much larger opponents, such as the 260lb Sam Peter, and 6’8" 250lb Alexander Dimentrinko.
But against the combination of speed, power, and size was far to much for him.
this was a typical (as of the last few years) W.K. fight: Opponent comes out blazing, tries either to bum rush and get inside and mix it up with the champ, quickly finds out that his defence is too good, as his excellent footwork(for a big man) keeps him at the right distance and his clench game ties you on the few occasions you can get inside, then you taste the power of the left jab, realize that he can knock you out with the left if you let it hit too much, so you go into survival mode and hide behind a high guard and throw very little back, because that would expose you to more left jabs and perhaps the left hook or god forbid his cracking right hand.
Usually, after about 6-10 rounds, you end up quiting on your seat, or your corner of ref stops the fight cuz it is evident you either cant get to him and you are losing realy bad, so why take anymore punishment.
this is how i thought this fight was going, after Chambers got buckled with a big right in round 2, he had no interest in chasing W.K. and trying to mix thing up. he covered and moved. by the 6th, his eyes were swelling and W.K. did not vhave a scratch on him.
BUT… Chambers was game and got to the 12th, and Manny Steward(Klit’s trainer) had had enough of Wlads safety first style, and was laying on lots of verbal abuse to his fighter, urging him to knock Chambers out and get it over with.
Wlad came out in the 12th in the hunt and kill mode, chambers ran, but finally got caught with a lunging lead left hook that put him on his face unconcious for 2-3 minutes. scary to see a fighter go down like that, but glad W.K. gave a highlight reel knockout to his loyal fans who pay lots of hard earned money to see him fight.
after the fight chambers said he does not remember the KO at all.
Mayweather/Pacquiao is practically done for, is there anyone else you guys would like to see him against? I’d like to see him fight Devon Alexander or Timothy Bradley.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
but glad W.K. gave a highlight reel knockout to his loyal fans who pay lots of hard earned money to see him fight.
[/quote]
Well, hey, wait another fifteen years and you might get another one from him.
Until then, it’s jab, move, jab, move, jab, move, jab-right, move, jab, move, jab, move, jab, move…
haha, really irish? REALLY? dude, wlad and his big bro have perhaps the highest KO % ever. i think VK is like 88%, and WK like 83%. no, they dont come out in the first round and start swinging for the fences, which will sometimes produce a big knockout, and sometimes leave you open to get knocked out yourself. and gee… i wonder why he doesnt want that to happen? maybe unlike lenox lewis, who got STARCHED/put fast assleep multple times, for some reason whenver WK got knocked down(btw, he has never been knocked unconcious, he has always been able to get up after being hurt withen a 10 count, look at the tape) people say WK sucks, but LL is still considered one of the all time greats?
Wlad’s opponents dont always get put to sleep, they realize early on that they are outclassed, and give up on thier stools or the ref or thier corner stops the carnage for them.
face it, WK is so far ahead of the rest of the competition right now his fights are not competive at all, thats no reason to hate on him, but to recognize that he actually pretty darn good.
No thanks.[/quote]
Exactly, the Klitschkos are among the best heavies of all time, one cannot downplay their skill by blaming it on seemingly weak opponents.
@Abraham: oh man! just when the KO was looming and tension was high, Dirrel did the “dying swan”, tears included. Nevermind they robbed Abraham his knockdown, he was more or less outpointed, but the DQ is complete bollocks. Dirrel gets 2 points and an academy award nomination (best female drama).
@other fights: german heavyweight Steffen Kretschmann lost against the nice russian swarmer Dennis Bakhtov - via submission!
I write of this largely unrelevant fight because there is a similarity:
Kretschmann, who was probably leading on points, just walked away at one point, with clearly broken spirit.
The russian, in full attack mode, didn’t hesitate to jump in and whack him from behind to the side of the head.
The ref, as a paid crook of course, tried to DQ the russian.
Thankfully the promoter, (Ex heavyweight Ahmed Oener) who was enraged at that point towards HIS guy (“get bacl there and fight you stupid fuck!”) was pressuring the refs to the point they changed their decision to TKO for Bakhtov. He justified himself later in an interview: " Steffen just lacks the killer instinct, the boy can’t handle the pressure. It wouldn’t be fair to railroad (!) the russian when Steffan was quitting.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Exactly, the Klitschkos are among the best heavies of all time, one cannot downplay their skill by blaming it on seemingly weak opponents.
@Abraham: oh man! just when the KO was looming and tension was high, Dirrel did the “dying swan”, tears included. Nevermind they robbed Abraham his knockdown, he was more or less outpointed, but the DQ is complete bollocks. Dirrel gets 2 points and an academy award nomination (best female drama).
@other fights: german heavyweight Steffen Kretschmann lost against the nice russian swarmer Dennis Bakhtov - via submission!
I write of this largely unrelevant fight because there is a similarity:
Kretschmann, who was probably leading on points, just walked away at one point, with clearly broken spirit.
The russian, in full attack mode, didn’t hesitate to jump in and whack him from behind to the side of the head.
The ref, as a paid crook of course, tried to DQ the russian.
Thankfully the promoter, (Ex heavyweight Ahmed Oener) who was enraged at that point towards HIS guy (“get bacl there and fight you stupid fuck!”) was pressuring the refs to the point they changed their decision to TKO for Bakhtov. He justified himself later in an interview: " Steffen just lacks the killer instinct, the boy can’t handle the pressure. It wouldn’t be fair to railroad (!) the russian when Steffan was quitting.
[/quote]
You realize that Dirrell got caught in the worst possible way, right? I highly doubt he took a dive to defeat a person he was already beating. Besides, Dirrell could have just danced the last round and still won.
Wlad is underrated, but he brings it on himself. He’ll take a fight with someone tremendously outclassed, then he just jabs and moves for 11 rounds before going for a KO. If you’re going to fight bad fighters at least make yourself look good lol.
in the worst possible way?
No, Abraham, a slow starter and late-round-KO machine got caught in the worst possible way.
I wanted to know if Dirrell could prance around two more rounds.
He CLEARLY had no interest in letting us see that, instead he made boxing look like football/soccer.
And what an act that was, seizures, tears, fainting! (Lets not even talk about his posse storming the ring.)
Fact is: Abraham was in full attack mode. The dude fell down and was hit not even half a second later. That is completely normal. In sparring, this can happen between friends even after about a second.
Abraham was ROBBED.
Dirrell hasn’t won, he took a dive to end the fight prematurely.
@irish
mexican welters are alright, but you cannot compare the punishment from a heavy with dudes who are about half their weight.
Especially in this day and age. Most american heavies are just sluggers. Nobody sane will forfeit riches and their title just to please the masses. Ali speaks with a slur for a reason and even in his prime he would stand no chance against both ukrainian brothers.
Of course, it’s easier to deny this and shout: booring!
Boring or not, they’re champions.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
in the worst possible way?
No, Abraham, a slow starter and late-round-KO machine got caught in the worst possible way.
I wanted to know if Dirrell could prance around two more rounds.
He CLEARLY had no interest in letting us see that, instead he made boxing look like football/soccer.
And what an act that was, seizures, tears, fainting! (Lets not even talk about his posse storming the ring.)
Fact is: Abraham was in full attack mode. The dude fell down and was hit not even half a second later. That is completely normal. In sparring, this can happen between friends even after about a second.
Abraham was ROBBED.
Dirrell hasn’t won, he took a dive to end the fight prematurely.
@irish
mexican welters are alright, but you cannot compare the punishment from a heavy with dudes who are about half their weight.
Especially in this day and age. Most american heavies are just sluggers. Nobody sane will forfeit riches and their title just to please the masses. Ali speaks with a slur for a reason and even in his prime he would stand no chance against both ukrainian brothers.
Of course, it’s easier to deny this and shout: booring!
Boring or not, they’re champions.[/quote]
Dirrell was down and had both gloves on the canvas trying to get up, Abraham caught a distracted Dirrell with a flush right hand. Punches you don’t see are by far the worst, especially a punch meant to put you down. I’m not saying it was malicious, but he fouled Dirrell and deserved the DQ. Abraham is actually really lucky it wasn’t malicious, if it was malicious he’d be facing a suspension.
Dirrell also had nothing to gain by “taking a dive”, he would of won just by being able to make it for 4 minutes longer. How could Abraham be robbed if he was losing the fight? The judges had it 97-92, 98-91, and 97-92 all for Dirrell.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Ali speaks with a slur for a reason and even in his prime he would stand no chance against both ukrainian brothers.[/quote]
I hope you mean that he wouldn’t stand a chance against both of them at the same time, because otherwise this statement is absolutely ridiculous on levels I can’t even comprehend.
And Smokin Joe would have KO’d Wladimir. Guaranteed.[/quote]
Muhammad Ali was a true genius in the ring, I’m sure he’d have a concrete plan to defeat Wlad: get a B class fighter to TKO him again.
A prime Ali would have no chance against a modern top heavy like the Klitschkos or Lennox Lewis.
That’s completely evident.
Surely you know why there are weight classes. Ali was about 200lbs in his prime, standing 6’3.
A modern Ali would have adapted either by getter bigger (and slower) or moving to cruiser (doubtful).
There’s a reason Haye is dodging the Klitschkos while talking shit.
@Dirrel
?
He won through his acting! Facing Abraham longer who was chasing him like a rabid dog the round before was a major risk. (Did you even see round 10 btw? Abraham smelled blood here)
So he pretended with seizures, tears and menstrual cramps with a show that’s worthy of football drama (Ronaldo could probably learn a thing or two here).
yes, just so… a shame the judge didn’t stop the fight earlier, like the 8th round, because surely “Direll is able to make it for 12 minutes longer”.
Actually I wanted to see if he can do it till the end, that’s kinda the reason I watched at all. It was an impressive performance, but now no one will know if he truly could beat Abraham, who’s often late with his KOs.
That can’t be so hard to understand.
Also, Surely you can see that a fighter punching a downed guy out of reflex is not a reason for DQ. Watch not the slowmotion but the real time footage.
It’s half a second at best we’re talking here. You cannot blame Abraham for striking out of instinct.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
@Ali
A prime Ali would have no chance against a modern top heavy like the Klitschkos or Lennox Lewis.
That’s completely evident.
Surely you know why there are weight classes. Ali was about 200lbs in his prime, standing 6’3.
A modern Ali would have adapted either by getter bigger (and slower) or moving to cruiser (doubtful).
There’s a reason Haye is dodging the Klitschkos while talking shit.
@Dirrel
?
He won through his acting! Facing Abraham longer who was chasing him like a rabid dog the round before was a major risk. (Did you even see round 10 btw? Abraham smelled blood here)
So he pretended with seizures, tears and menstrual cramps with a show that’s worthy of football drama (Ronaldo could probably learn a thing or two here).
yes, just so… a shame the judge didn’t stop the fight earlier, like the 8th round, because surely “Direll is able to make it for 12 minutes longer”.
Actually I wanted to see if he can do it till the end, that’s kinda the reason I watched at all. It was an impressive performance, but now no one will know if he truly could beat Abraham, who’s often late with his KOs.
That can’t be so hard to understand.
Also, Surely you can see that a fighter punching a downed guy out of reflex is not a reason for DQ. Watch not the slowmotion but the real time footage.
It’s half a second at best we’re talking here. You cannot blame Abraham for striking out of instinct.[/quote]
Dirrell had been eluding him the whole fight and he was well ahead in points, he had no reason to take a dive. Dirrell could have lost both the 11th and 12th round and still won, he just had to stay on his feet and not get knocked down or kayoed. Why is a guy on his way to a UD about to take a dive? That’s ridiculous.
The fight was stopped because there was no possible way to continue the fight. I’m not saying it was malicious, but it was a good call to DQ Abraham. You can’t hit a fighter when they’re down and can’t possibly try to justify it. And like I said; Abraham is lucky that foul can’t be considered malicious or he’d be out of the tournament.
I CANT FUCKING WAIT FOR HOPKINS VS JONES THIS WEEKEND!!! Wait a second, what year is it?? 2010?? nevermind… booooooring.
oh and ali would smoke the klitscho’s hands down… Ali’s hand speed and quickness would make them look like chumps.
[quote]nomorewar wrote:
I CANT FUCKING WAIT FOR HOPKINS VS JONES THIS WEEKEND!!! Wait a second, what year is it?? 2010?? nevermind… booooooring.[/quote]
Lol, they should make it a double bill with Holyfield-Botha and call it “Grumpy old men”
Anyway, the hit that Abraham got on Dirrell when he was down looked like part of a combo and it wasn’t even a direct hit. It was a glancing shot and only his forearm made contact
This is beyond silliness. There is no way to tell how a fighter from one era would do against one from another. WAY too many variables to consider. I wont bother to get into that argument. might as well say wolverine could kick all their butts, with his bad-ass claws and healing factor and all, lol.
Even the great Ali, was challenged by fighters most of you probably never heard of, and he went the distance with many fighters that were not “A-list”.
For some real perspective on Ali’s “greatness” please watch the documentary “Facing Ali”. THEN please come back and talk to me about all of this.
the Klits, though it is far to soon to tell if they could be considered all time greats(though sooooo many have already made up their mind already, fuck, W.K. could knockout Jesus in his next fight and people would still say he sucked), the by far the most talented heavies in their division, and deserve some respect.
BTW irish… what do you think would happen to YOU if W.K. tagged you with that “boring” left jab a few times? 
just watched Dirrell- Abraham this is my card:
Rd 1 Dirrell-10 Abraham-9
Rd 2 Dirrell-10 Abraham-9
Rd 3 Dirrell-9 Abraham-10 First close rd i gave it to Abraham on power punches
Rd 4 Dirrell-10 Abraham-8 The knockdown didnt look to faze abraham and looked like it caught him off balence
Rd 5 Dirrell-10 Abraham-9
Rd 6 Dirrell-10 Abraham-9 Abraham lookes frustrated cause of low blow and Dirrell’s movement
Rd 7 Dirrell-10 Abraham-9 Abraham sems to have a sense of ergency
Rd 8 Dirrell-10 Abraham-9 Close rd i gave it to Dirrell though
Rd 9 Dirrell-10 Abraham-9
Rd10 Dirrell-9 Abraham-10 Dirrell looked in trouble very close to a 10/8 rd.
Rd11 Disqual. Dirrell’s foot looked to slip when the first punch landed Abraham obviously hit him while he was down on second punch. it was the right call and the punch def. caused some damage to Dirrell. Its a shame the fight ended that way because Abraham looked like he had a chance to still win with a knockout and Dirrell looked awesome! He had a great chance of finishing this fight and suprising everyone.
Before the fight i had Abraham winning with a late rd KO and i looked like i was gonna be right. My card had it 98/91 Direll and i was seriously impressed with the way he fought. Abraham was doing what he always does but not as sharp as ussual. I think the other fighters in the tourny should take note of this fight and ifthey do i can see abraham having trouble.
you make no sense irish, “he wasn’t a knockout guy” but you say that WK cant break wind with his left hook, yet he has a very impressive KO %, even for heavyweights. if the heavyweights just are not your cup of tea, that is fine, it is personal preference and fine. I still like the heavies, actually, i like 175 and up. i just like to see the big men bang. after seeing VK up close fight live, there is just something that a BIG athletic fighter has, a sort of aura, that makes the fight worth watching.
but please watch the documentary i mentioned and get back to me, either here or via pm. i would be interested in your thoughts about it.
I don’t really see how someone can mention the Klitschkos in the same sentence as Ali. Ali fought in a more competitive era of the heavyweight division, is widely regarded as one of the best fighters to ever lace up gloves, and can be considered the greatest heavyweight. He could make you beat yourself, the guy was a true master in the ring. Ali also always made the effort to fight the best people in the division, even at the end of his career.
[quote]blackngrey609 wrote:
just watched Dirrell- Abraham this is my card:
Rd 1 Dirrell-10 Abraham-9
Rd 2 Dirrell-10 Abraham-9
Rd 3 Dirrell-9 Abraham-10 First close rd i gave it to Abraham on power punches
Rd 4 Dirrell-10 Abraham-8 The knockdown didnt look to faze abraham and looked like it caught him off balence
Rd 5 Dirrell-10 Abraham-9
Rd 6 Dirrell-10 Abraham-9 Abraham lookes frustrated cause of low blow and Dirrell’s movement
Rd 7 Dirrell-10 Abraham-9 Abraham sems to have a sense of ergency
Rd 8 Dirrell-10 Abraham-9 Close rd i gave it to Dirrell though
Rd 9 Dirrell-10 Abraham-9
Rd10 Dirrell-9 Abraham-10 Dirrell looked in trouble very close to a 10/8 rd.
Rd11 Disqual. Dirrell’s foot looked to slip when the first punch landed Abraham obviously hit him while he was down on second punch. it was the right call and the punch def. caused some damage to Dirrell. Its a shame the fight ended that way because Abraham looked like he had a chance to still win with a knockout and Dirrell looked awesome! He had a great chance of finishing this fight and suprising everyone.
Before the fight i had Abraham winning with a late rd KO and i looked like i was gonna be right. My card had it 98/91 Direll and i was seriously impressed with the way he fought. Abraham was doing what he always does but not as sharp as ussual. I think the other fighters in the tourny should take note of this fight and ifthey do i can see abraham having trouble.
[/quote]
I hope Abraham takes his frustrations out on Carl Froch.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
you make no sense irish, “he wasn’t a knockout guy” but you say that WK cant break wind with his left hook, yet he has a very impressive KO %, even for heavyweights.
[/quote]
No- I absolutely never said that WK can’t punch- I said I won’t watch him because he doesn’t WANT to.
Of course he can knock people out- he’s a gigantic boxer. But he doesn’t have the killer instinct to actually make a fight of it and go for the knockout- he’s very content to sit back and bore his fans to death. I’m not going to watch 12 rounds of boredom and hope that he knocks someone out in the 11th when they should never have been in the ring with him to start with.
I love heavyweights- but not this crop of them. They are boring. VK is a great fighter, but the competition is not there for him to fight, and hasn’t been since Lennox Lewis.
But as a boxing writer and a boxing fan, I refuse to say that Wladimir Klitscho is one of the greatest ever, or that he could honestly hold a candle to the real greatest heavyweights.
[quote]
but please watch the documentary i mentioned and get back to me, either here or via pm. i would be interested in your thoughts about it. [/quote]
I’ll definitely make a point to see it. I love stuff about Ali. [/quote]
GROAN… I am NOT saying WK is an all time great! What I am saying he is underrated by the the American press and yes, overrated by the European press. I am saying that this unabashed hatred and “conventional wisdom” that he sucks, is just pure silliness. He is big, athletic, ALWAYS in top condition, and is way ahead of his competition(such that it is) at this time.
All time great, NO, deserves some credit, YES.
BTW, irish, you ever write anything for eastside boxing?
As far as the heavies being “boring” right now, well, i think that we as the collective fan base share in the blame.
let me explain:
todays heavies are bigger and stronger than ever. as you stated (quite correctly) that once you get to around 200lbs, fighters tend to be able to end any fight with one punch at just about any time. now with 6-6 240-260lb heavies, that is taken to another level. B rated fighters, can get lucky and hit a champion or contender just once and its game over.
Now years past, a fighter, ESPECIALLY a heavyweight, who is considered to be in THE division for big punchers, could get knocked down, TKO, heck, even KO’d every now and then and still be considered a good or even great fighter. Sure his stock would go down a bit, but it was a career crusher, like today.
These days, if a fighter gets starched, pretty much his entire fan base bails on him. This is insane in the heavyweight division, for reasons i have already explained, you cant put 250lbs of muscle on your jaw. it is physics. All it takes is one lucky punch. with the few black marks on WK’s roster, look how the public has treated him. And he never has been completely starched like LL, or Mike Tyson, or George Foreman, heck, even Joe Fraizure. He has always been able to get up after a knockdown before the count. Despite being tagged by some admittedly “b” level fighter, the guys who got to him were also widely regarded as “dangerous” big punchers. So I am sure his management team, who has made millions off of him, has told him and his trainers that he cannot afford another loss, let alone a KO.
If you were in his shoes, faced with one of these two choices:
“play safe, dominate my opponents with jab, minimize risk of leaving myself open for a big shot, and get the late round KO or stoppage, and continue to make millions, be the champ, and bang european supermodels…”
or:
“Come out swinging for the fences, get some exiting highlight reel KO’s, excite the stupid oafish american fan base, and take a big risk of eventually getting KO yourself, loseing your title and having the before mentioned american fan base dump you and refer to you as glass jawed wimp”
Hmmm?
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
As far as the heavies being “boring” right now, well, i think that we as the collective fan base share in the blame.
let me explain:
todays heavies are bigger and stronger than ever. as you stated (quite correctly) that once you get to around 200lbs, fighters tend to be able to end any fight with one punch at just about any time. now with 6-6 240-260lb heavies, that is taken to another level. B rated fighters, can get lucky and hit a champion or contender just once and its game over.
Now years past, a fighter, ESPECIALLY a heavyweight, who is considered to be in THE division for big punchers, could get knocked down, TKO, heck, even KO’d every now and then and still be considered a good or even great fighter. Sure his stock would go down a bit, but it was a career crusher, like today.
These days, if a fighter gets starched, pretty much his entire fan base bails on him. This is insane in the heavyweight division, for reasons i have already explained, you cant put 250lbs of muscle on your jaw. it is physics. All it takes is one lucky punch. with the few black marks on WK’s roster, look how the public has treated him. And he never has been completely starched like LL, or Mike Tyson, or George Foreman, heck, even Joe Fraizure. He has always been able to get up after a knockdown before the count. Despite being tagged by some admittedly “b” level fighter, the guys who got to him were also widely regarded as “dangerous” big punchers. So I am sure his management team, who has made millions off of him, has told him and his trainers that he cannot afford another loss, let alone a KO.
If you were in his shoes, faced with one of these two choices:
“play safe, dominate my opponents with jab, minimize risk of leaving myself open for a big shot, and get the late round KO or stoppage, and continue to make millions, be the champ, and bang european supermodels…”
or:
“Come out swinging for the fences, get some exiting highlight reel KO’s, excite the stupid oafish american fan base, and take a big risk of eventually getting KO yourself, loseing your title and having the before mentioned american fan base dump you and refer to you as glass jawed wimp”
Hmmm? [/quote]
Wlad’s lack of American support isn’t because of his losses, it’s because he’s not entertaining. He’s not a showman and has extremely boring fights. He’ll be going against someone he can knock out in one round just by landing a 1 2, rather than do that he jabs around for 11 rounds then gets a late KO. Vitali has the better chance of crossing over to America, he just needs fight in the US on a regular basis.