The Bodybuilding Bible

Training Bodybuilding
541

[quote]Azael wrote:
Did not want to start a whole new thread so figured I would ask here. To Brick or anyone else really, what do you consider being in “shape” muscle/size wise? Would it be easier to follow a certain type or training routine if the goal was to look like an athlete lean and muscular and not to get as big as possible?

I ask because, I noticed you said the Defrancos training was not bodybuilding and I agree but, I have seen the pics on his site and know people who follow it in and off season and they are bigger than many on this site. In your opinion is it a scheduling/time thing? I train 5-6 times a week hitting every muscle twice but, my goal was to put on muscle. As I now evaluate my future I wonder if trianing 4x a week push/pull wuold give me the the physique I am after with less training?

Hope that made sense[/quote]

I think your question is unanswerable, but I’ll try my best.

What is “being in shape?” I think most people would define “being in shape” as having about 20 pounds of lean mass accrued from weight training and less than 12% bodyfat. That is the POP-CULTURE view of what “in shape” LOOKS like.

But if we speak as we do on T-mag–that is, like hardcore weight trainees–most people will ask, “In shape for what?!”

Being “in shape” for bodybuilding means being MUSCULARLY OBESE.

Being “in shape” for powerlifting means being able to lift respectable poundages in the three lifts. I think most people would consider a twice bodyweight deadlift and squat and a one and a half bodyweight bench press to be “respectable” lifts. Are they GREAT? NO! But that’s a decent level of “shape” for most people who go to a gym after work. Elite is a whole other story. Being superhuman like Kirk Karwoski and Ed Coan is a VERY different story.

Being “in shape” for MMA means being able to endure long fights, being competent in the skill of the sport, and being able to kick ass!

See my points here? What kind of “in shape” are you talking about?

You wrote: “Would it be easier to follow a certain type or training routine if the goal was to look like an athlete lean and muscular and not to get as big as possible?”

First off, athletes don’t train a few hours per week like we do! They train for 20 to 30 hours per week or more! Ben Johnson trained for 4 to 6 hours a day, 6 says per week when he was an Olympic athlete. Michael Phelps trains 6 hours per day, 6 days per week.

I’m not trying to rip apart how you communicate, but you’re not giving us an easy question to answer.

And don’t worry, you’re not going to get “too big” (as if this was easy to do in the first place) with LESS training! So what are you worried about?

You give examples of top college and high school athletes bigger than T-mag posters; so you’re basically giving examples of GENETICALLY GIFTED people (probably without kids and a wife) who athletically train and strength train 20+ hours per week and probably eat >4,000 calories per day compared to your average internet forumite who has difficulty fitting in a measly five hours of exercise per week, most likely subpar genetics, a 40 to 50 hour work week, and maybe a wife and two kids in some cases.

What group do you think is going to look better and in many cases be considerably more muscular?

542

I saw this LIVE at Randall’s Island two weekends ago. I had great seats - right along the backstretch where the runners finished. I was just a few yards away from these athletes finishing their races.

This is a clip of Veronica Campbell-Brown. Notice how she’s an athlete - a sprinter- who trains for sprinting but has a more advanced physique than 99% of the women on this site who compete in figure and show off their flicks in the SAMA section.

This is why it’s hard to answer your question. Most genetically blessed athletes who train as much as ordinary people attend work (35 hours per week sometimes) are going to look better than ordinary schlubs even if these ordinary schlubs are trying to be bodybuilders (eg, train solely for aesthetics).

543

Same goes for these guys I saw. They are stronger and better built than 99% of T-Nation posters despite training like athletes, not bodybuilders.

544

I’m curious Bricknyce… How did you come up with the “David Koresh” label? It is hilarious. I do like some of Charles’ articles as they are interesting but his locker room talk and ridiculous examples turn me off much of the time.

545

Hey Bryc, how long had you been training for BBing/PLing before you gave it up?

546

I’ve been exercising since for 15 years, but only about 6 of those years were really hardcore bodybuilding and powerlifting training.

547

I didn’t make up the Koresh thing; it’s what a lot of people refer to him as.

548

After 6 years of legit training did you work up to respectable numbers and a respectable lbm? And how much did it suck to give that up?

By respectable I mean being considered large or strong by dudes like Proff x, Stu, or just any accomplished bb in general?

549

245 to 250 at 5’10" - like a “muscular chubby guy” or a “chubby muscular guy”. I had a lot of muscle at the time, and as I’ve said before, had respectable lifts. You can see some flicks on my Facebook page.

I don’t know what those guys you mention would consider me. All I know is that most people would consider and tell me I was a “big guy”. They still do, even though I only weigh 214# as of yesterday. I’m far leaner now. But yeah, I’ve also lost muscle. That’s what happens when you run miles at a time and weight train twice per week.

It DOES suck to give it up. I’d love to be able to eat all day, lift for hours everyday, AND maintain the kind of social and dating/romantic lives I desire, AND eventually develop a spare time business (aim is to start working on it in October or December) while I have my regular job. I CAN’T FUCKING DO IT!

If you guys can swing this shit, hats off to you. I REALLY mean this.

I’m at a point in which if I have 4 meals instead of 5 or 6… oh well! At a point in which I miss a workout here and there because I don’t want to give up some fun or time with family, friends, or a woman… oh well! If I miss some sleep… oh well!

And I PERSONALLY accept this! I DON’T urge others to do this sort of shit if they wish to become HUUUGE!

It’s just that some people on here can’t quite grasp their plight in this whole fitness thing. I do. I grasped that when I was fully involved, I had time for little else - physically, emotionally, intellectually, and mentally. Perhaps I can’t multi-task as good as others on here. And I’m OK with this.

Again, it DOES suck. You know how gratifying it is to lift big and be big? Very much so. But it has worn off. Most guys I know who are my age or older have given up on being huge. They couldn’t swing it. When I was younger, I thought older guys who toned it down were selling out - being a bunch of wimps or indisciplined. Now I’m one of those guys and I see why they toned it down.

550

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
245 to 250 at 5’10" - like a “muscular chubby guy” or a “chubby muscular guy”. I had a lot of muscle at the time, and as I’ve said before, had respectable lifts. You can see some flicks on my Facebook page.

I don’t know what those guys you mention would consider me. All I know is that most people would consider and tell me I was a “big guy”. They still do, even though I only weigh 214# as of yesterday. I’m far leaner now. But yeah, I’ve also lost muscle. That’s what happens when you run miles at a time and weight train twice per week.

It DOES suck to give it up. I’d love to be able to eat all day, lift for hours everyday, AND maintain the kind of social and dating/romantic lives I desire, AND eventually develop a spare time business (aim is to start working on it in October or December) while I have my regular job. I CAN’T FUCKING DO IT!

If you guys can swing this shit, hats off to you. I REALLY mean this.

I’m at a point in which if I have 4 meals instead of 5 or 6… oh well! At a point in which I miss a workout here and there because I don’t want to give up some fun or time with family, friends, or a woman… oh well! If I miss some sleep… oh well!

And I PERSONALLY accept this! I DON’T urge others to do this sort of shit if they wish to become HUUUGE!

It’s just that some people on here can’t quite grasp their plight in this whole fitness thing. I do. I grasped that when I was fully involved, I had time for little else - physically, emotionally, intellectually, and mentally. Perhaps I can’t multi-task as good as others on here. And I’m OK with this.

Again, it DOES suck. You know how gratifying it is to lift big and be big? Very much so. But it has worn off. Most guys I know who are my age or older have given up on being huge. They couldn’t swing it. When I was younger, I thought older guys who toned it down were selling out - being a bunch of wimps or indisciplined. Now I’m one of those guys and I see why they toned it down. [/quote]

That sucks dude. As a young dude from NY/NJ myself I know how hectic this shit can get with school, work and the morons we have to deal with everyday “Yo man, why you be packin food in your bookbag. You gay or something?” As if a bodybuilding diet is correlated with being a homosexual lmao. I take shit from my boys all the time for it but I cant imagine my self toning it down as I have a burning desire to be big and strong. I really hope I never reach a point in my life where I’m forced to prioritize other things above being a really strong and jacked dude, as you have your self.

551

[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
245 to 250 at 5’10" - like a “muscular chubby guy” or a “chubby muscular guy”. I had a lot of muscle at the time, and as I’ve said before, had respectable lifts. You can see some flicks on my Facebook page.

I don’t know what those guys you mention would consider me. All I know is that most people would consider and tell me I was a “big guy”. They still do, even though I only weigh 214# as of yesterday. I’m far leaner now. But yeah, I’ve also lost muscle. That’s what happens when you run miles at a time and weight train twice per week.

It DOES suck to give it up. I’d love to be able to eat all day, lift for hours everyday, AND maintain the kind of social and dating/romantic lives I desire, AND eventually develop a spare time business (aim is to start working on it in October or December) while I have my regular job. I CAN’T FUCKING DO IT!

If you guys can swing this shit, hats off to you. I REALLY mean this.

I’m at a point in which if I have 4 meals instead of 5 or 6… oh well! At a point in which I miss a workout here and there because I don’t want to give up some fun or time with family, friends, or a woman… oh well! If I miss some sleep… oh well!

And I PERSONALLY accept this! I DON’T urge others to do this sort of shit if they wish to become HUUUGE!

It’s just that some people on here can’t quite grasp their plight in this whole fitness thing. I do. I grasped that when I was fully involved, I had time for little else - physically, emotionally, intellectually, and mentally. Perhaps I can’t multi-task as good as others on here. And I’m OK with this.

Again, it DOES suck. You know how gratifying it is to lift big and be big? Very much so. But it has worn off. Most guys I know who are my age or older have given up on being huge. They couldn’t swing it. When I was younger, I thought older guys who toned it down were selling out - being a bunch of wimps or indisciplined. Now I’m one of those guys and I see why they toned it down. [/quote]

That sucks dude. As a young dude from NY/NJ myself I know how hectic this shit can get with school, work and the morons we have to deal with everyday “Yo man, why you be packin food in your bookbag. You gay or something?” As if a bodybuilding diet is correlated with being a homosexual lmao. I take shit from my boys all the time for it but I cant imagine my self toning it down as I have a burning desire to be big and strong. I really hope I never reach a point in my life where I’m forced to prioritize other things above being a really strong and jacked dude, as you have your self. [/quote]

That’s the thing: the circumstances of my life sort of “forced” me to take a different approach to fitness. Contray to popular belief, you can’t have it all. Even Dave Tate has said repeatedly that you can’t be great or fully engaged in everything - you can’t be fully engaged in socializing AND church AND lifting AND marriage AND child raising AND earning dough AND whatever else.

Think about it. Here’s what a day looks like for an average person - and I’m being skimpy with the work hours:

Get up. If a breakfast is good, it’s gonna take a little bit to make. Most people need an hour if they give a shit what they eat in the morning and how they look and how they feel.

20 to 90 minute commute to work.

8 to 10 hours of work (12 or more for some people in sales, law, medicine, advertising, PR, and marketing)

20 to 90 minute commute home.

Social time OR gym time (1 to 2 hours counting travel to the gym, warming up, showering after getting home and all that shit) OR annoying shit like errands, doctor’s appointments, picking up kids from wherever, etc.

Rest of night: Whatever pesty, bullshit errands or chores that need to be done and getting ready for the next day.

Can you see how easily this can force someone to attend the gym twice or three times per week AND be less hardcore? If one chooses going to the gym over other stuff, what else can be fit into this day considering I just showed what 15 or 16 hours looks like?

If I choose gym time and plan on getting 7 hours of sleep to not feel like a zombie at work, I can’t go on a date, visit a friend I haven’t seen in months, visit a relative, work on a website and spare time business, or do whatever.

I still make some training and dietary sacrifices, just not like I used to.

552

Good read on a real life look-back of someone who put on a lot of muscle. I just hope that after all this pragmatic thinking that people don’t forget that brick is, even with how busy he says, 5’10", 214lbs, and lean. That’s definitely a good fighting weight for someone not making big sacrifices like most on here.

553

[quote]skaterhernandez4 wrote:
Good read on a real life look-back of someone who put on a lot of muscle. I just hope that after all this pragmatic thinking that people don’t forget that brick is, even with how busy he says, 5’10", 214lbs, and lean. That’s definitely a good fighting weight for someone not making big sacrifices like most on here.[/quote]

I’ve only become more busy in the past few months. I’m finishing the last class of an MS, I’m moving next week to a new neighborhood, and I’ve been meeting more people and socializing more. This is self-imposed stuff, because my social life was ABYSMAL when I was hardcore. If I run after work (sprints of distance runs) or do some full body circuit or play a game of handball instead of going to the gym, I still have a lot of time to do what I want and have to do. I only twice per week this summer - full body sessions - to maintain muscle mass. Granted I’ve lost a whole lot of mass, but I don’t mind.

I’m going back to three lifting sessions per week in the winter. I can still run outdoors but a place by me has an indoor 200 meter track that I’ll be using when it’s snowing or too cold.

554

Thanks too. I’m definitely not SHREDDED, but not fat either. I got a four pack now and am pretty lean in the arms, legs, shoulders, and upper back. Yeah, I’m a bit smooth in the lower abs and lower back and flanks, but I don’t mind; neither do women. (When was the last time a woman rejected a guy for having a two or four pack instead of a six pack or for carrying a bit of chub. Contrary to Chris Shugart’s writings, women don’t melt in hands just because some dude is ripped nor do chubby or imperfect looking men as a whole lack sex lives.)

555

This thread is good! And, I agree that as a woman, I do not melt if I see a “shredded” guy. I so like mass though :slight_smile:

556

LOL

Page 1 - great
Page 22&23 - why you shouldn’t follow page 1

Jesus.

Do you post under multiple names here too, brick?

557

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
LOL

Page 1 - great
Page 22&23 - why you shouldn’t follow page 1

Jesus.

Do you post under multiple names here too, brick?[/quote]

Dude, there’s a whole lot of useful information and meaningful (I think so) conversation in most of this thread. In the last few pages I just explained why I don’t post on this forum so much anymore. That is, I don’t care to be slammed for not bodybuilding hardcore anymore.

I still love bodybuilding in the same way some people love baseball despite not partaking. Nothing wrong with this, but some people on here are VERY sensitive.

I don’t post under multiple names. I had another name A LONG TIME AGO, but haven’t used it in YEARS.

558

Also, I’d LOVE to get big again. But again, it’s not as important as other matters to me at this point of life.

559

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]Flip91 wrote:
My english isn’t that good, so its difficult for me to understand it all :stuck_out_tongue: [/quote]

How many days a week have you got, how often do you want to train each bodypart per week (or focus on a specific part?) and what is your diet like?

[/quote]

I was thinking about training 4 times a week (Monday,tuesday,thursday and friday. My focus is simply to get huge ! Altought it sounds redicoulus… My diet is relatively good, but it could’ve been better. I get around 4 solid meals, and i take maybe 3 protein shakes per day. A friend of mine suggested trying i split that looked like this:

Monday- Chest and bices
Tuesday- Legs and abs
Wednesday- Off
Thursday- Shoulders and triceps
Friday- Back and hamstrings
Saturday and sunday - off

But i could need some help on the exercises/reps and such to get huge.

560

[quote]venusismyplanet wrote:
This thread is good! And, I agree that as a woman, I do not melt if I see a “shredded” guy. I so like mass though :)[/quote]

Where are you in NY? I’m in Queens.