The Bodybuilding Bible

Training Bodybuilding
241

[quote]Matsa wrote:

[quote]Fuzzyapple wrote:
I would sticky it.

I’m surprised many newbs haven’t been training like this already. I trained like this in my early years (14 years old) but really I didn’t gain because of my poor food intake. I was a newb on the diet end.[/quote]

No, don’t sticky it whatever you do! If you sticky it, no one will read it!

You know that’s the sad truth. People never ever read stickies…[/quote]

this is so true. far more people will follow this as an "“active” thread, than will if it is a sticky.

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Actually you guys are right… I hereby revoke my vote for the sticky.

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[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Nah, I didn’t talk to him. The only pro I spoke to a few times at one of the gyms I used to go to is Desmond Miller.

From seeing videos of Vic, I think he trains like a jerkoff. But the bottom line is that what he does works for him. I once saw a few vids of him on You Tube and he appeared half asleep while lifting. [/quote]

What do you mean by “jerkoff”? He trains pretty normally. I have his Titans training video and one other where he tries to talk about how to lift.

My advice to him is to not talk about it.

He is impressive to watch even though he really doesn’t go that heavy when in pre-contest mode.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Nah, I didn’t talk to him. The only pro I spoke to a few times at one of the gyms I used to go to is Desmond Miller.

From seeing videos of Vic, I think he trains like a jerkoff. But the bottom line is that what he does works for him. I once saw a few vids of him on You Tube and he appeared half asleep while lifting. [/quote]

What do you mean by “jerkoff”? He trains pretty normally. I have his Titans training video and one other where he tries to talk about how to lift.

My advice to him is to not talk about it.

He is impressive to watch even though he really doesn’t go that heavy when in pre-contest mode.[/quote]

I agree with Brick on this one. I will say ahead of time that he’s doing what works for HIM. But as a spec. I think its pretty easy to see that some of his form looks choppy etc. But hey, he must be doin right for himself.

Its like that vid of ronne benching 495(relentless i think?), I’m a huge ronnie fan, but in that vid he basically plops down on the bench, grabs the bar and bangs out some sloppy reps, ending up with his one arm a noticable 6 inches lower than the other.

With that said, he benches 190 more lbs for reps than i do for my 1 rep max, so maybe I should STFU, but an observation is an observation.

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[quote]Sarev0k wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Nah, I didn’t talk to him. The only pro I spoke to a few times at one of the gyms I used to go to is Desmond Miller.

From seeing videos of Vic, I think he trains like a jerkoff. But the bottom line is that what he does works for him. I once saw a few vids of him on You Tube and he appeared half asleep while lifting. [/quote]

What do you mean by “jerkoff”? He trains pretty normally. I have his Titans training video and one other where he tries to talk about how to lift.

My advice to him is to not talk about it.

He is impressive to watch even though he really doesn’t go that heavy when in pre-contest mode.[/quote]

I agree with Brick on this one. I will say ahead of time that he’s doing what works for HIM. But as a spec. I think its pretty easy to see that some of his form looks choppy etc. But hey, he must be doin right for himself.

Its like that vid of ronne benching 495(relentless i think?), I’m a huge ronnie fan, but in that vid he basically plops down on the bench, grabs the bar and bangs out some sloppy reps, ending up with his one arm a noticable 6 inches lower than the other.

With that said, he benches 190 more lbs for reps than i do for my 1 rep max, so maybe I should STFU, but an observation is an observation.[/quote]

I don’t personally think like you. When I see someone on Ronnie’s level lifting weights, I don’t even have the thought of criticizing how he is doing it. He obviously knows what he is doing so I am more looking at WHY he is doing it.

Guys like you seem to do the complete opposite.

I was referring to Vic’s overall approach to lifting along with the fact that he was called a “jerk off”. If you are watching guys like Vic Martinez and trying to point out how WRONG they are training, you will never have to worry about other people watching you.

246

Best thread in a while…

-frequency, you state 1-2 times a week per muscle group( I totally agree). When should someone choose 2 times over once? I try to go for 2 times a week. I have seen more natties doing this frequency. I believe Ronnie Coleman did this during his competitive career as well, but it still seems to be in the minority for bodybuilders.

-How many days per week are needed for true bodybuilding results? We have established that three is not really enough, but what is optimal?

Brick thanks for starting an actual bodybuilding thread, a truly rare thing. From now on whenever I think of complicating my program with the newest this or best that, I think I will re-read the first several pages of this thread.

247

[quote]MiJuggernaut wrote:
Best thread in a while…

-frequency, you state 1-2 times a week per muscle group( I totally agree). When should someone choose 2 times over once? I try to go for 2 times a week. I have seen more natties doing this frequency. I believe Ronnie Coleman did this during his competitive career as well, but it still seems to be in the minority for bodybuilders.

-How many days per week are needed for true bodybuilding results? We have established that three is not really enough, but what is optimal?

Brick thanks for starting an actual bodybuilding thread, a truly rare thing. From now on whenever I think of complicating my program with the newest this or best that, I think I will re-read the first several pages of this thread.[/quote]

  • Frequency: The first thing is that it depends how someone responds. Some do better with hitting a muscle hard one time a week, others (most) respond better to hitting it twice a week. I think as someone becomes more advanced and as the weights become heavier and heavier, they’ll have to side with hitting it once a week (like Dorian did) to give their muscles adequate recovery.

  • Days per week: I think whoever said it best when they said, the more often you can train without impeding your recovery, the better.

248

Question about frequency, how would you structure the week to train each muscle twice a week? A generic plan if you will. Just curious how you guys would go about it.

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I have used: Push/pull/legs/push/pull/legs Mon-sat
Arnold: chest and back/legs/delts and arms/repeat: Mon-Sat
Mine: Chest back delts/leg arms: Mon,tues-thurs,fri
Dorians 3 day split done six days a week. 3 on one off, 3 on one off.

A few examples.

250

[quote]Heracles_rocks wrote:
Question about frequency, how would you structure the week to train each muscle twice a week? A generic plan if you will. Just curious how you guys would go about it. [/quote]

On top of the routines MiJuggernaut said, keep in mind that although a LOT of successful bodybuilders train each muscle group “twice a week”, they don’t necessarily mean each muscle twice in the SAME 7 day period (though some do).

What I mean is, if you are training…

Day 1 Legs
Day 2 Chest
Day 3 Back
Day 4 Shoulders/arms
Day 5 rest

If day 6 repeats over again with legs, then you will still be training every muscle group twice in a 7 day period, just not having to squeeze it into the SAME 7 days.

It’s the difference between hitting a muscle every 5-6 days and getting enough volume/exercises to stimulate it thoroughly (on top of a greater frequency), and having to hit a muscle every 2-4 days and cutting your training volume in half just to compensate for such a high frequency.

Another thing a lot of guys do is simply go into the gym and work whatever isn’t sore. It sounds like a chaotic way to train if you’re a beginner, but I think it’s one of the best ways to lift. It allows you to stay in touch with your body, give just enough frequency and volume to each body part individually, and avoid injury.

If you were to take someone who trains instinctively like that and have them write it down on paper, you would see a lot of them follow a pretty steady routine and hit most or all their muscles more often than every 7 days… the difference is, they aren’t limited by some words on a page.

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[quote]mr popular wrote:

[quote]Heracles_rocks wrote:
Question about frequency, how would you structure the week to train each muscle twice a week? A generic plan if you will. Just curious how you guys would go about it. [/quote]

On top of the routines MiJuggernaut said, keep in mind that although a LOT of successful bodybuilders train each muscle group “twice a week”, they don’t necessarily mean each muscle twice in the SAME 7 day period (though some do).

What I mean is, if you are training…

Day 1 Legs
Day 2 Chest
Day 3 Back
Day 4 Shoulders/arms
Day 5 rest

If day 6 repeats over again with legs, then you will still be training every muscle group twice in a 7 day period, just not having to squeeze it into the SAME 7 days.

It’s the difference between hitting a muscle every 5-6 days and getting enough volume/exercises to stimulate it thoroughly (on top of a greater frequency), and having to hit a muscle every 2-4 days and cutting your training volume in half just to compensate for such a high frequency.

Another thing a lot of guys do is simply go into the gym and work whatever isn’t sore. It sounds like a chaotic way to train if you’re a beginner, but I think it’s one of the best ways to lift. It allows you to stay in touch with your body, give just enough frequency and volume to each body part individually, and avoid injury.

If you were to take someone who trains instinctively like that and have them write it down on paper, you would see a lot of them follow a pretty steady routine and hit most or all their muscles more often than every 7 days… the difference is, they aren’t limited by some words on a page.[/quote]

x2

It can be confusing when someone says twice a week (calender week), as opposed to twice every 8 days (biological week).

And I completely agree that although the instinctive training may sound chaotic, it still almost follows a set routine…with the exception of being more “natural”/flexible. It’s better suited for those with a nearby gym/homegym…or those who’s wife/girlfriend doesn’t control them (haha)

252

re: Vic

I don’t know, this looks like a pretty standard arm workout to me. I haven’t been training for 20 years, but I don’t see anything horrendous that jumps out at me, at least in this vid. He’s certainly not as emotional (wrong word?) or vocal as some other guys when they work out, but he seems pretty focused, and he’s 4 weeks out from a contest.

Thoughts? I think this is actually pretty good material for a Bodybuilding Bible example arm workout.

253

Hmmm… Faster negatives than I’d be comfortable with, but he doesn’t bounce out of a full stretch so that’s fine… Doesn’t go all that far up on the EZ’s, probably gets forearm pain when he does (I get it then, anyway, so I try to stop the ascent early, too)…

I just dunno… Guys like McGrath seem way more focused, if you know what I mean? Vic looks kind of like he’s on autopilot and just… Pumping away basically. I can see why people would prefer to watch other guys who just sort of look more intense. Due to his fast pumping motion he does look a bit “choppy”, yeah, but he’s very fluid etc… There really isn’t anything bad in there, technique wise… Just not what I’d do personally.

254

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
re: Vic

I don’t know, this looks like a pretty standard arm workout to me. I haven’t been training for 20 years, but I don’t see anything horrendous that jumps out at me, at least in this vid. He’s certainly not as emotional (wrong word?) or vocal as some other guys when they work out, but he seems pretty focused, and he’s 4 weeks out from a contest.

Thoughts? I think this is actually pretty good material for a Bodybuilding Bible example arm workout.[/quote]

I also like how he doesn’t keep his elbows tucked in to his sides when he curls the barbell. For some reason I can feel my biceps better when I flare them out instead of keeping them in my sides.

255

Forbes, I keep them tucked… Feels weird on the shoulder when I flare like that and my wrists just don’t have the flexibilty to still hold the bar then, even an EZ bar…

I do see a lot of pros do them that way though, elbow-wise (flared).

256

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
re: Vic

I don’t know, this looks like a pretty standard arm workout to me. I haven’t been training for 20 years, but I don’t see anything horrendous that jumps out at me, at least in this vid. He’s certainly not as emotional (wrong word?) or vocal as some other guys when they work out, but he seems pretty focused, and he’s 4 weeks out from a contest.

Thoughts? I think this is actually pretty good material for a Bodybuilding Bible example arm workout.[/quote]

That is about the speed I use for some sets. Others, I hold the peak contraction.

Like I said before though, there is nothing wrong with the way he trains.

His “lack of enthusiasm” is just who he is. He NEVER flips out or yells or screams. That was why I said before that he looked high in his training videos. He is extremely relaxed (or at least he LOOKS that way) when he trains…and it clearly works for him.

I don’t make noise when I lift either.

257

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
re: Vic

I don’t know, this looks like a pretty standard arm workout to me. I haven’t been training for 20 years, but I don’t see anything horrendous that jumps out at me, at least in this vid. He’s certainly not as emotional (wrong word?) or vocal as some other guys when they work out, but he seems pretty focused, and he’s 4 weeks out from a contest.

Thoughts? I think this is actually pretty good material for a Bodybuilding Bible example arm workout.[/quote]

That is about the speed I use for some sets. Others, I hold the peak contraction.

Like I said before though, there is nothing wrong with the way he trains.

His “lack of enthusiasm” is just who he is. He NEVER flips out or yells or screams. That was why I said before that he looked high in his training videos. He is extremely relaxed (or at least he LOOKS that way) when he trains…and it clearly works for him.

I don’t make noise when I lift either.[/quote]

interesting. this is the sort of speed the biggest guys in my gym train at too. apart from maybe the last few reps.

258

[quote]alit4 wrote:

interesting. this is the sort of speed the biggest guys in my gym train at too. apart from maybe the last few reps.[/quote]

My reps are pretty fast for most body parts, especially lately.

The smallest people I see are always the ones using super slow rep methods.
I am also not saying there is anything wrong with slowing down the negative. I USED to do that years back but have found faster reps (especially for arms and chest) to be more effective.

259

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I don’t make noise when I lift either.[/quote]

Lies. You’re probably a farter :D.

260

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]alit4 wrote:

interesting. this is the sort of speed the biggest guys in my gym train at too. apart from maybe the last few reps.[/quote]

My reps are pretty fast for most body parts, especially lately.

The smallest people I see are always the ones using super slow rep methods.
I am also not saying there is anything wrong with slowing down the negative. I USED to do that years back but have found faster reps (especially for arms and chest) to be more effective.[/quote]

x2, that is 100% my experience as well. I’ve always used fast reps, even years ago when “slow and controlled” was in vogue. If the smaller guys would concentrate more on heavier weight, maintaining reasonable form, and accelerating as fast as possible on each rep, rather than arguing light weights and perfect form are the “proper” way to lift, they might actually get big some day.

And, not that I’ve been paying particularly close attention, but - isn’t there a strong emphasis on explosive reps in this new Biotest training program?