[quote]rainjack wrote:
I don’t want to hijack the thread, but I have been asked by several folks to move the Bunker to the T-Cell Alpha forum.
I’d like some input, as I have been told that the forum probably won’t get moved unless the members decide it needs to be moved.
Since some of you guys can’t post in the other forum yet - this seemed like the logical place to ask. [/quote]
I like the Idea, but if a new guy wants to ask a serious question, he can’t necessarily ask it in the T-Cell since he cannot post in there. I think this thread is good in a sense that ANYONE can ask serious questions and get legitimate answers, where as the T-Cell will be where advanced body builders share info amongst each other and new guys can read what they have to share. Essentially, keep the beginner’s type stuff here, and keep the elite stuff in the T-Cell.
[quote]GetSwole wrote:
Keep it here for all questions to be asked and discussed.
I do like the idea of a Bunker Discussion thread in the T-Cell though. Kind of make the T-Cell thread the Big Brother of this one.
And to keep the bodybuilding forum from becoming devoid of all things bodybuilding.[/quote]
bunker discussion seems like an alright concept but…what are you going to discuss about a discussion? i dont know what you guys have in mind but id hope the vets would still rain down their brilliance on us in this thread as it fed a lot of momentum to the formation of that forum itself and this is kind of the proving grounds to post in that thread as well. im just saying if you guys are going to have your own thing about this discussion dont just talk about what were saying in your own click, engage in here as well.
anyway, as the bunker is still in the bodybuilding thread lets keep it moving with a new topic. i think everyone has voiced their opinions on the subject and it actually seems everyone wants this to stay as is so lets forget about it and move on.
Hopefully this thread will be like a breeding ground for the other forum.
If we keep this thread serious and continue to get new guys and lots of learning, it ensures the other forum will have a drawing pool of guys who are serious about bodybuilding.
When using a new program, how long do you stay on it to judge its effectiveness and how do you do so?
I think this is a good discussion for new guys to learn from as this Weider confusing training philosophy seems to be resurfacing as of late.[/quote]
right…brought to you by P90X and the 300 workout…lol.
anyway, ive asked this question myself and i think theres a couple different factors.
of course the biggest thing to look at is how youre responding to it. i think you should be feeling DOMS somewhere in your body. i know we were talking earlier about DOMS and how some parts grow w/o it etc but i think anyone whos been lifting 6 months to a year is capable of judging the severity of DOMS and how to correlate that with the effectivness, or lack thereof, of a movement or entire routine. i think in two completed weeks as youve cycled through each lifting day at least twice (maybe more depending on how the split is) you should be able to tell very easily. thats really the hit or miss category i think in that short period of time you should be able to determine either “wow this program really blasted everything and i know its going to work well” or “wow this is utter shit and im not going to grow using it” very early.
but obviously you arent always going to get hit or miss programs and when its like that id say work it out and just keep what works and replace what doesnt. i mean as long as you arent on some crazy hybrid program or some other absurd thing that involes a lot of calculations i think you can pretty much take whatever the outline is and just mix and match till it suits you better. its a hell of a lot easier going through trial and error figuiring what works than spending a year trying to find “the” program in which youll most likely have just wasted a year and not made any significant progess at all.
another thing id like to mention, when trying out new programs youre more than likely going to be trying new exercises. a lot of them have been getting fancier and fancier lately and it may be bothersome to get the form down pact. id say replace exercises you have trouble on form with for ones you can perform safely. not saying you shouldnt ever learn new exercises but if youre primary back builder on a program is the deadlift and you dont know how to deadlift you may want to practice your form outside of your training and in the meantime stick to something you know during your training.
What do the guys here think of splitting your leg days in half, say Quads on one day, and then hamstrings on a second day, maybe with back.
My split looks like this
Monday: Chest and Biceps
Tuesday:Quads
Thursday:Shoulders and Triceps
Saturday:Back and Hamstrings
Clearly there is gonna be some carry over, but i just enjoy being able to not only hit legs twice a week, but ive never really understood giving only one day for lower body, but 4 or 5 for the upper body.
When using a new program, how long do you stay on it to judge its effectiveness and how do you do so?
I think this is a good discussion for new guys to learn from as this Weider confusing training philosophy seems to be resurfacing as of late.[/quote]
I’d say 4-6 weeks before you know if your body is responding well to it. Many things though can be looked at when judging effectiveness. How well do the movements suit you? Is your body comfortable with any new movements the program may call for? Many people don’t like doing the deadlift, if a program calls for deadlift as it’s key back builder, obviously that program won’t be very effective for that specific person. The simplest way though, to me, to judge if a program is effective, once you begin it, is if you obviously begin to see results. Is your strength increasing, are your reps becoming easier, are your muscles beginning to look larger, and like I said before does your body feel good doing the required movements and do you enjoy doing the program to a certain extent.
What I don’t get though is why so many people COMPLETELY switch programs. Granted, your muscles will adapt to your exercises, and progress will begin to slow, but that doesn’t mean you have to completely change programs. Stay with your program, and the design of it, but simply change up your Rep and Set scheme. Change out certain movements for new ones that still target the same muscle group. Granted, it would be fun to switch to a special program every once in awhile like something that Waterbury or the likes has created, but it’s nice to have a simple, effective, base program to use such as some type of body part split or something that you personally created that has showed results. I think alot of people over complicate these types of things.
I don’t think of my training in a weeklong period.
I focus on hitting everything in a twice in a certain number of days. For me, its every bodypart gets hit in 8 days. If I choose to go 3 on 1 off 3 on 1 off, or I go 2 on 1 of 2 on 1 off 2 on 1 off thats fine too.
That doesn’t really answer your question except about hitting everything equally.
I’m using a push/pull/legs split btw. I’m a big fan of the squat party style leg day.
[quote]WS4JB wrote:
What do the guys here think of splitting your leg days in half, say Quads on one day, and then hamstrings on a second day, maybe with back.
My split looks like this
Monday: Chest and Biceps
Tuesday:Quads
Thursday:Shoulders and Triceps
Saturday:Back and Hamstrings
Clearly there is gonna be some carry over, but i just enjoy being able to not only hit legs twice a week, but ive never really understood giving only one day for lower body, but 4 or 5 for the upper body.
Thoughts ?
–JB[/quote]
I know a couple people that do it. It comes down to how your body is reacting to it. If your getting bigger, and stronger than shit, nothing to worry about. I’m actually thinking about having a separate day for hamstrings in the near future seeing as it’s a pain in the ass to fit a number of good hamstring exercises into my leg day because of time restraints and what not. I would just keep any key back movements like the deadlift first before any hamstring specific exercise. You won’t want to pre-fatigue your hamstrings before your deadlift and risk compromising a really great back movement.
and theres 5 upper body muscle-groups …7 if you want to include forearms and abs but not everyone is into doing direct work for them.
most people will tell you theres no real significane in how you group your muscles so long as you arent arranging them so that needed muscles are already fatigued on the day youre supposed to train them. its just generally preferred to group with protagonisht+antagonist or push pull.
[quote]WS4JB wrote:
What do the guys here think of splitting your leg days in half, say Quads on one day, and then hamstrings on a second day, maybe with back.
My split looks like this
Monday: Chest and Biceps
Tuesday:Quads
Thursday:Shoulders and Triceps
Saturday:Back and Hamstrings
Clearly there is gonna be some carry over, but i just enjoy being able to not only hit legs twice a week, but ive never really understood giving only one day for lower body, but 4 or 5 for the upper body.
Thoughts ?
–JB[/quote]
I just can’t really handle this after doing squats, really. They incorporate too much for my body… glutes, hammies, quads, ankles, hips, and even calves a bit. I will throw in some good mornings or hypers or something on my deadlift day to help incorporate legs a little bit more, but that’s about it really.
[quote]bmitch wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I don’t want to hijack the thread, but I have been asked by several folks to move the Bunker to the T-Cell Alpha forum.
I’d like some input, as I have been told that the forum probably won’t get moved unless the members decide it needs to be moved.
Since some of you guys can’t post in the other forum yet - this seemed like the logical place to ask.
Everyone can post in the post you created in that section[/quote]
When using a new program, how long do you stay on it to judge its effectiveness and how do you do so?
I think this is a good discussion for new guys to learn from as this Weider confusing training philosophy seems to be resurfacing as of late.[/quote]
I think if you find a program that is improving your lifts on a weekly basis, you should stick to it. When your improvement stops (no more weekly pr’s) you should switch up the exercise/rep scheme/recovery/ etc.
The only time you should COMPLETELY switch up your routine is if you burn out from your current program or if you completely stop progressing in your lifts. thats what i think.
[quote]WS4JB wrote:
What do the guys here think of splitting your leg days in half, say Quads on one day, and then hamstrings on a second day, maybe with back.
Thoughts ?
–JB[/quote]
i believe in high volume training for legs (hence the success of smolov squat) but only for the advance trainees. new lifters just cant recover fast enough to perform legs more often.
training quad and hamstrings separately seems kinda hard, since most exercises target both at the same time (squat, deadlift, etc). sounds like a good idea though!