The Bodybuilder Bunker

Training Bodybuilding
181

[quote]Fulmen wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
Just do not go above 12% off season. I am in agreement with Duchaine, in that excessive bulk makes things very difficult and ruins vascularity and skin tautness even when you come back down.

I disagree with that. Not becoming a fat ass I can agree with, but you’d be slowing yourself down if you tried to stay at 12%. It doesn’t ruin vascularity or none of that shit when you come back down, at least not from what I’ve seen.

[/quote]

Going above 12% is pretty much being a fat ass.

182

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Professor X wrote:
GetSwole wrote:
Jehovas-PM me your email address. I am no longer allowed to send PM’s as a result of the very topic.

As for protein, I want to throw out that I don’t think alot of guys who are eating large amounts of protein are getting the full benefits of their large intake, which means less protein synthesis then there should be because there is less protein. Let me explain, I think alot of people (especially us big eaters) have digestive tracts taht are working all that well. Enter digestive enzymes: I think most bodybuilders should be taking them because it really helps with digestion and absorbtion. And after, its not how much you eat, but how much you absorb. I think alot of guys are wasting their protein cuz its just going straight through without them being able to absorb it properly.

Just my thoughts. Try some digestive enzymes/probiotics etc.

I think too many put way too much focus on protein as if that alone is going to cause them to grow. Your overall caloric intake is most important. How many carbs and fats you can get away with is completely individual and shouldn’t even follow some flat outline. Most newbies today avoid eating enough period because they have been scared into believing their most concern should be placed on how much body fat they carry.

Dave Tate was mentioned earlier. You actually had people act as if he would be that size without bulking up for several years.

Very few very large individuals are going to agree with that…yet people act as if that doesn’t mean much.

I agree with you Prof, in that I have not seen a large individual become large by eating like a bird. However, would you not agree that it makes this much harder and creates more work, a miserable contest prep, when you have so much fat to lose. The longer you stay fat, the harder it is to get rid of, a la the set point theory. Being overly fat also causes a decrease in insulin sensitivity. I do not think any physique conscious person should be above 12% bf even if its offseason.
[/quote]

I don’t 12% means stop your bulk. I think maybe if you hit 12% up your low intensity cardio or decrease your food intake or tighten up your nutrient timing to level off at that body fat a bit or to lean a little while still eating in calorie surplus (which, call me crazy, but I do think its entirely possible).

I truly believe that out of 2 guys who eat the same exact amount of food and burn the same amount of total calories, the guy who utilizes nutrient timing and low intensity fasted cardio will be leaner than the guy who ignores cardio and nutrient timing, even if they burn and consume the same amount of total calories.

I just really believe this is true, and they can make muscular gains at the same pace IMO.

183

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

Going above 12% is pretty much being a fat ass. [/quote]

you must be joking

184

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:

Going above 12% is pretty much being a fat ass.

you must be joking[/quote]

I hope he is.

Who the FUCK KNOCKED THE RATING DOWN?

185

12% is relatively lean, no, not by contest prep and advanced BB level, but I really you can get as high as 14-15% depending on your metabolism, activity level, and how you store your fat, and still be okay come cutting season. Unless you are doing a contest in which case it would make for a very long prep.

But most no competitors never need to go or want to go below 8%. Therefore, a BB who need to go from 11-12%-2% is not that much different than a guy who needs to go from 14-15 down to 8.

Sure it gets harder as you get leaner. But I think if you top out at 14-15% during full bulks, your still ok if your not a competitor.

186

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Fulmen wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
Just do not go above 12% off season. I am in agreement with Duchaine, in that excessive bulk makes things very difficult and ruins vascularity and skin tautness even when you come back down.

I disagree with that. Not becoming a fat ass I can agree with, but you’d be slowing yourself down if you tried to stay at 12%. It doesn’t ruin vascularity or none of that shit when you come back down, at least not from what I’ve seen.

Going above 12% is pretty much being a fat ass. [/quote]

yeah, ok.
:rollseyes:

187

Who cares about percentages as long as you dont look like a fat ass?

188

[quote]Fulmen wrote:
Who cares about percentages as long as you dont look like a fat ass?[/quote]

agreed.

189

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Going above 12% is pretty much being a fat ass. [/quote]

Thanks, this makes it easy for me to put you on ignore.

190

JF, you’ve got mail.

Like I said, the only people who should really stop bulking immediately at 12% is a competition BB with a show in the near future.

191

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
The body processes nutrients, protein included, best when you are under 15% bodyfat because there is better insulin sensitivity. So, the solution is to stay between 12% or under for bodybuilders, according to my opinion, what I have observed, and the authors I have been influenced by.
[/quote]

Bullshit. I want someone to show me where this idea comes from other than someone’s ill-supported opinion. There is NO research available anywhere dictating that someone who is 16-17% has worse “insulin sensitivity” than someone who is 14% body fat.

This lie has been repeated so often that people believe it like the “8 glasses of water a day” rule.

192

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
What do you guys think is a good guideline on how often should “hit the brakes” so to say, and do a short reset in a long term bulking phase to rip some fat off and then continue upwards? And how much time should one spend away from bulking to do this?[/quote]

This is a good question. I have about 4 different answers:

If you are 17 - 23:
There is no possible reason to stop eating and growing. If you goal is to be huge eat right up to the point of your dad kicking you out of the house.

If you are 24 - 33:
You have no excuses. Get a damn job and buy your own food and eat and eat and eat until you hit your goal. If your goal is 250 lean, eat till you are 280 - 300.

If you are 34-40:
You are quickly losing your window to actually put on real muscle. You should already be big, or be nearing your goal by the time you are here. Those that have been bulking for 10-15 years should have no problems, but guys just getting into the game at this point should realize they are playing against a stacked deck. The new guys should pay extra attention to their nutrition. You are not 18 anymore.

If you are 40+
Tough shit. Unless you are getting some Vitamin T, I would not gain more than 20 pounds without seriously assessing the quality of the gains, and the side effects of the extra weight - blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. You can gain more on the juice, but you still need to pay pretty close attention to your overall health. Nutritional choices become more important. You are damn sure not 18 anymore.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong.

193

I tend to agree with that. I just think the fatter you are, the more adept the body is at storing fat thats all. Insulin or not.

194

[quote]Professor X wrote:

This lie has been repeated so often that people believe it like the “8 glasses of water a day” rule.[/quote]

Speaking of which how much water you guys normally drink?

I usually drink enough to the point where my piss is clear or pale yellow.

195

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

I agree with you Prof, in that I have not seen a large individual become large by eating like a bird. However, would you not agree that it makes this much harder and creates more work, a miserable contest prep, when you have so much fat to lose. The longer you stay fat, the harder it is to get rid of, a la the set point theory. Being overly fat also causes a decrease in insulin sensitivity. I do not think any physique conscious person should be above 12% bf even if its offseason.
[/quote]

Again, bullshit. No one is recommending obesity, but anyone who is even that caught up in a number that they base their progress on it that specifically will do nothing but hold back their own progress. I have seen people read at 15% body fat (since I was a personal trainer) who still had all abs visible.

According to you, they should have immediately began dieting because of a number. Most beginners should AVOID worrying about their specific reading at all costs. Using the mirror and their own strength levels should be their concern.

Not only that, but why would someone years away from even gaining the amount of muscle mass that would allow them to compete SUCCESSFULLY be that worried about staying near some baseless idea of “contest weight”? I have been training for a long time and am just now carrying the level of muscle mass where I believe I could actually do something in competition.

Way too many of you have lowered your own standards that some who are carrying less muscle than some sedentary people I know who just play basketball on the weekends have decided to jump on stage…when they should be building muscle over the next five years before worrying about it.

196

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
What do you guys think is a good guideline on how often should “hit the brakes” so to say, and do a short reset in a long term bulking phase to rip some fat off and then continue upwards? And how much time should one spend away from bulking to do this?

This is a good question. I have about 4 different answers:

If you are in your 17 - 23:
There is no possible reason to stop eating and growing. If you goal is to be huge eat right up to the point of your dad kicking you out of the house.

If you are 24 - 33:
You have no excuses. Get a damn job and buy your own food and eat and eat and eat until you hit your goal. If your goal is 250 lean, eat till you are 280 - 300.

If you are 34-40:
You are quickly losing your window to actually put on real muscle. You should already be big, or be nearing your goal by the time you are here. Those that have been bulking for 10-15 years should have no problems, but guys just getting into the game at this point should realize they are playing against a stacked deck. The new guys should pay extra attention to their nutrition. You are not 18 anymore.

If you are 40+
Tough shit. Unless you are getting some Vitamin T, I would not gain more than 20 pounds without seriously assessing the quality of the gains, and the side effects of the extra weight - blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. You can gain more on the juice, but you still need to pay pretty close attention to your overall health. Nutritional choices become more important. You are damn sure not 18 anymore.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong. [/quote]

Brilliant. It needs to be quoted from here on out because I think some actually log in and think some of the things I write about bulking up are for 35+ year olds.

197

[quote]JoeG254 wrote:
Professor X wrote:

This lie has been repeated so often that people believe it like the “8 glasses of water a day” rule.

Speaking of which how much water you guys normally drink?

I usually drink enough to the point where my piss is clear or pale yellow.

[/quote]

I go by how my body feels. I naturally tend to drink more water when dieting. I drink less when gaining because I seem to need less. I am probably drinking about a gallon (most of it in green tea) right now. I drink less when gaining.

198

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
Going above 12% is pretty much being a fat ass.

Thanks, this makes it easy for me to put you on ignore.[/quote]

I’m so hurt, Donut. Perhaps I insulted your doughnut eating habit, hence why you want to have a higher bodyfat percentage without being labeled fat.

199

I drink when thirsty.

In fact, the only time I drink water is when I lift, and I drink quite a bit of it.

Every other time its whole milk (with or without protein powder) or tea.

200

[quote]JoeG254 wrote:
Professor X wrote:

This lie has been repeated so often that people believe it like the “8 glasses of water a day” rule.

Speaking of which how much water you guys normally drink?

I usually drink enough to the point where my piss is clear or pale yellow.

[/quote]

I usually get in about 1.5 gallons. It depends on how much physical activity, how hot it is, how thirsty I am, etc. lol

Gerdy