The Bodybuilder Bunker

Training Bodybuilding
201

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:

I agree with you Prof, in that I have not seen a large individual become large by eating like a bird. However, would you not agree that it makes this much harder and creates more work, a miserable contest prep, when you have so much fat to lose. The longer you stay fat, the harder it is to get rid of, a la the set point theory. Being overly fat also causes a decrease in insulin sensitivity. I do not think any physique conscious person should be above 12% bf even if its offseason.

Again, bullshit. No one is recommending obesity, but anyone who is even that caught up in a number that they base their progress on it that specifically will do nothing but hold back their own progress. I have seen people read at 15% body fat (since I was a personal trainer) who still had all abs visible. According to you, they should have immediately began dieting because of a number. Most beginners should AVOID worrying about their specific reading at all costs. Using the mirror and their own strength levels should be their concern.

Not only that, but why would someone years away from even gaining the amount of muscle mass that would allow them to compete SUCCESSFULLY be that worried about staying near some baseless idea of “contest weight”? I have been training for a long time and am just now carrying the level of muscle mass where I believe I could actually do something in competition.

Way too many of you have lowered your own standards that some who are carrying less muscle than some sedentary people I know who just play basketball on the weekends have decided to jump on stage…when they should be building muscle over the next five years before worrying about it.[/quote]

Er relating to contest shape… exactly how much do you think one needs before they jump on stage ???
I have always hung at the 80-85kg mark BEFORE i actually joined the gym now i hang around the 95-97 mark 1 and a half months into a “bulk”

Obviously that isnt all muscle :slight_smile: As for bodyfat i dont know nor care i dont ever put on that much fat can still see top 4 abs and it melts off me so im not pushed BUT i would like SOME number to aim for…

According to google i weight 213 odd lbs… how far more ???
Cheers Prof or others.
Class thread btw props to you Fulman.

202

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
Going above 12% is pretty much being a fat ass.

Thanks, this makes it easy for me to put you on ignore.

I’m so hurt, Donut. Perhaps I insulted your doughnut eating habit, hence why you want to have a higher bodyfat percentage without being labeled fat. [/quote]

Get the fuck out of this thread with that shit Brick. Seriously. This is haven, fuck off.

Great post as usual by RJ.

As for water, because I’m on a keto diet (flame away I shouldn’t be dieting I know, its not gonna last much longer. I just to be very obese.) I am drinking about 2 gallons a day. Often with a gallon being green tea.

When I’m maintaining to gaining usually over a gallon but cetainly not 2. Like PX said, more when dieting.

203

[quote]Corkonian wrote:

Er relating to contest shape… exactly how much do you think one needs before they jump on stage ???[/quote]

That would be where a picture would come in. I feel that I could compete at the level of muscle mass I have now because I hear that I should from people whose opinion I trust when it comes to bodybuilding (that obviously does not include the opinion of some teenagers on a website).

Putting a specific number on it would be a mistake. There are shorter bodybuilders on this site who don’t weigh very much but would put many people to shame on a bodybuilding stage. Obviously someone taller with thicker joints would NOT look impressive at all at the same weight.

One thing I know for sure is that many of the people claiming they are about to jump on stage should have had someone slap them a few times to wake them up to reality.

That is something I will not do unless convinced myself that I could do well. I don’t do shit like that “just for the experience”.

204

Professor X,
You are a very friendly guy, very easy to correspond with, so laid back and open to conversation, so well mannered. I deserve hostile remarks when I innocently make a recommendation based on what I have read and seen and been advised and experienced. I deserve to be tarred and feathered.

I did not say the person should start “dieting” when they reached a certain bodyfat percentage. I meant that one would consider tweaking their diet down by about 10% in calories and see where they are at in 2 to 4 weeks. I did not mean dieting as in one reaching a certain percentage and then they schedule a contest or vacation or wedding to diet for.

Thanks again, Prof. You’re a laid back guy. Very open minded too.

205

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
The body processes nutrients, protein included, best when you are under 15% bodyfat because there is better insulin sensitivity. So, the solution is to stay between 12% or under for bodybuilders, according to my opinion, what I have observed, and the authors I have been influenced by.

Bullshit. I want someone to show me where this idea comes from other than someone’s ill-supported opinion. There is NO research available anywhere dictating that someone who is 16-17% has worse “insulin sensitivity” than someone who is 14% body fat.

This lie has been repeated so often that people believe it like the “8 glasses of water a day” rule.[/quote]

Well Prof, I have come across the research.

206

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Professor X,
You are a very friendly guy, very easy to correspond with, so laid back and open to conversation, so well mannered. I deserve hostile remarks when I innocently make a recommendation based on what I have read and seen and been advised and experienced. I deserve to be tarred and feathered.

I did not say the person should start “dieting” when they reached a certain bodyfat percentage. I meant that one would consider tweaking their diet down by about 10% in calories and see where they are at in 2 to 4 weeks. I did not mean dieting as in one reaching a certain percentage and then they schedule a contest or vacation or wedding to diet for.

Thanks again, Prof. You’re a laid back guy. Very open minded too. [/quote]

I think you are in the wrong thread. I am not “laid back” when it comes to things I believe in. I may be the quietest person in the room, but I am the most intense if challenged at all. If this offends you, I honestly don’t care.

I don’t know many people who actually succeed at what they set out to do who are extremely laid back when it comes to things they are passionate about. Even if I did, that wouldn’t stop me from doing what has worked in my life up to this point.

207

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
The body processes nutrients, protein included, best when you are under 15% bodyfat because there is better insulin sensitivity. So, the solution is to stay between 12% or under for bodybuilders, according to my opinion, what I have observed, and the authors I have been influenced by.

Bullshit. I want someone to show me where this idea comes from other than someone’s ill-supported opinion. There is NO research available anywhere dictating that someone who is 16-17% has worse “insulin sensitivity” than someone who is 14% body fat.

This lie has been repeated so often that people believe it like the “8 glasses of water a day” rule.

Well Prof, I have come across the research.[/quote]

You seem confused. The proper response would be to present whatever research you have, not to explain to everyone that you found it.

208

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
The body processes nutrients, protein included, best when you are under 15% bodyfat because there is better insulin sensitivity. So, the solution is to stay between 12% or under for bodybuilders, according to my opinion, what I have observed, and the authors I have been influenced by.

Bullshit. I want someone to show me where this idea comes from other than someone’s ill-supported opinion. There is NO research available anywhere dictating that someone who is 16-17% has worse “insulin sensitivity” than someone who is 14% body fat.

This lie has been repeated so often that people believe it like the “8 glasses of water a day” rule.

Well Prof, I have come across the research.[/quote]

really? because all of a sudden going from 12% BF to 12.1% BF causes physiological changes in your insulin sensitivity? thinking the human body is simple as that is ludicrous

209

Cry.

I agree PX, way too many guys competing that shouldn’t be. There was on on this site who got flamed out of his misery he said he was doing a ‘DC type workout’ which of course wasn’t DC. He was a rail, rather he was skinny fat, and had put in THREE COMPETITIONS.

He even posted photos and looked awful. He posted RMP here a couple months back and posts ‘progress pics’ on IM the other day. He’s just gained a belly pooch and says he’s puttin on good size for the next comp. Course everyone says don’t embarrass yourself but he just doesn’t get it. The standards have been lowered way to much. And I think these rate me forums contribute to that problem as a whole.

210

Prof, I am equally passionate about bodybuilding and not laid back either, hobby and otherwise. However, despite not being laid back and standing for what I believe, like you do, I do not respond like a DICK when simply conversing with someone, ESPECIALLY when they were not personally attacking ME, and merely commenting on a TOPIC.

211

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
The body processes nutrients, protein included, best when you are under 15% bodyfat because there is better insulin sensitivity. So, the solution is to stay between 12% or under for bodybuilders, according to my opinion, what I have observed, and the authors I have been influenced by.

Bullshit. I want someone to show me where this idea comes from other than someone’s ill-supported opinion. There is NO research available anywhere dictating that someone who is 16-17% has worse “insulin sensitivity” than someone who is 14% body fat.

This lie has been repeated so often that people believe it like the “8 glasses of water a day” rule.

Well Prof, I have come across the research.

really? because all of a sudden going from 12% BF to 12.1% BF causes physiological changes in your insulin sensitivity? thinking the human body is simple as that is ludicrous
[/quote]

Well being fairly well versed and educated in the life sciences, I would not say the human body is simply either. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. You’re a good guy.

212

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Prof, I am equally passionate about bodybuilding and not laid back either, hobby and otherwise. However, despite not being laid back and standing for what I believe, like you do, I do not respond like a DICK when simply conversing with someone, ESPECIALLY when they were not personally attacking ME, and merely commenting on a TOPIC.[/quote]

Dude, kindly shut up and with all due respect, present whatever research you claim to have which shows someone has worse “insulin sensitivity” at 17% body fat than at 14%.

We are all waiting.

I, of course, mean that with the greatest level of etiquette possible.

213

Prof you could be a member of congress with that reply !
So if a person was 6ft 1" tall … an acceptable body weight for competing in local comps would be …
Also would you in hindsight have done your 1st bulk longer or what.

Im so CONFUSED with this bulking business, dont you have a bulking for noobies or something written down somewhere i can borrow :slight_smile:
Strength was so much easier all i had to do wa slift heavy weights !

214

[quote]Corkonian wrote:
Prof you could be a member of congress with that reply !
So if a person was 6ft 1" tall … an acceptable body weight for competing in local comps would be …
Also would you in hindsight have done your 1st bulk longer or what.
Im so CONFUSED with this bulking business, dont you have a bulking for noobies or something written down somewhere i can borrow :slight_smile:
Strength was so much easier all i had to do wa slift heavy weights ![/quote]

I think you mistook my reply for being something that wasn’t specific. Let me boldface the text for you:

YOU CAN NOT PROVIDE SOME SPECIFIC WEIGHT FOR WHAT SOMEONE SHOULD WEIGH FOR A BODYBUILDING COMPETITION BECAUSE GENETIC BUILD, HEIGHT AND EVEN AGE PLAY A ROLE IN HOW MUSCULAR SOMEONE LOOKS AT A CERTAIN BODY WEIGHT

Did you get it that time? Flex Wheeler had tiny joints. He could beat people 20lbs heavier than him on stage at the same height because OF HOW HE LOOKED in spite of what he weighed. His muscular shape allowed him to look bigger than he really was.

Someone older will have the benefit of “muscle maturity” which relates to how “dense” someone looks. That person could weigh the same as someone who is 10 years younger at the same height and still look better on stage. The time spent in the gym would cause their muscles to carry a greater level of definition and to simply look “thicker” compared to someone younger.

That is why no specifics can be given…but we sure as hell know it when we see it.

215

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
Professor X,
You are a very friendly guy, very easy to correspond with, so laid back and open to conversation, so well mannered. I deserve hostile remarks when I innocently make a recommendation based on what I have read and seen and been advised and experienced. I deserve to be tarred and feathered.

I did not say the person should start “dieting” when they reached a certain bodyfat percentage. I meant that one would consider tweaking their diet down by about 10% in calories and see where they are at in 2 to 4 weeks. I did not mean dieting as in one reaching a certain percentage and then they schedule a contest or vacation or wedding to diet for.

Thanks again, Prof. You’re a laid back guy. Very open minded too.

I think you are in the wrong thread. I am not “laid back” when it comes to things I believe in. I may be the quietest person in the room, but I am the most intense if challenged at all. If this offends you, I honestly don’t care. I don’t know many people who actually succeed at what they set out to do who are extremely laid back when it comes to things they are passionate about. Even if I did, that wouldn’t stop me from doing what has worked in my life up to this point.[/quote]

If you feel that getting to 14 to 17% bodyfat has aided in getting to the size you are, then do it! I do not know why I would say not to, if it has worked for YOU. I am speaking in generalities when I speak on this board and I was of course clearly sarcastic in my statements.

Am I offended? Not at all. This is a message board, something for entertainment and SOMETIMES education value. But, when I address you with respect as in “hey Prof, I agree but I disagree with XXXX…”, I do think you respond confrontationally.

I actually have enjoyed your posts over the years as well as others. I just do not see the need for provocation or confrontation when someone states something not with a party line of a thread!

I have been at this for ten years, that means, reading, attending shows, conversing with competitors and other serious recreational trainees, and having aspirations of doing some shows. I also have a pretty good, extensive education in the life sciences and dietetics/nutrition.

I have personally trained before as well. So, perhaps I am not 100% correct in everything that I say but I can assure you that I know more than MOST people do on fitness and nutrition.

Yes, I too get irritated, as displayed on these boards, at wild claims and completely ridiculous recommendations by some gurus and I do not plan on following their model.

However, I really do not feel like opening every thing I say on here with a disclaimer such as “hey guys, I might be wrong” or “hey guys, I THINK but I might be wrong” or “hey guys, I might be stepping on people’s toes here but…” like some afraid, apologetic panzee. However, I usually do not start direct confrontation with people since we are discussing a TOPIC, not a human being.

216

I did not feel like digging up old articles from my closet at the time of making the post. I mean that with proper etiquette as well.

217

Ah ok, i get it now :slight_smile:
So i just keep going till i start scaring people so :slight_smile:

218

[quote]Corkonian wrote:
Ah ok, i get it now :slight_smile:
So i just keep going till i start scaring people so :)[/quote]

NOW you get it.

The moment little kids in grocery stores start saying, “Look, Daddy, that man has way bigger muscles than you do!”, then you know you’ve actually done something in the gym.

219

Bullshit. You said “if your 12% your basically a fat-ass”.

You got pissy because you got the slightest (and it really was slight) ribbing.

I return to my previous statement of get the fuck out of this thread with that bullshit. There’s every other thread on this site for your whining. And I don’t wanna hear about your schooling in nutrition anymore so don’t bother telling me you are more experienced than me.

Can we get back on topic please.

220

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Corkonian wrote:
Ah ok, i get it now :slight_smile:
So i just keep going till i start scaring people so :slight_smile:

NOW you get it.

The moment little kids in grocery stores start saying, “Look, Daddy, that man has way bigger muscles than you do!”, then you know you’ve actually done something in the gym.[/quote]

HAHA
Ok i get it loud and clear end of wondering for me !
Onwards i go