Okay, back to bodybuilding, so our only home doesn’t get deleted.
How would you go about increasing protein synthesis naturally? Just the basics-eat big, lift big, sleep big?
[quote]Fulmen wrote:
Okay, back to bodybuilding, so our only home doesn’t get deleted.
How would you go about increasing protein synthesis naturally? Just the basics-eat big, lift big, sleep big?[/quote]
My body has become more responsive over time in that I know I consume and actually use more protein now than I did when I was much smaller. This is based on metabolism, the level of muscle mass and how your body adapts to training over the course of years. I have never taken more than a few days off from training in well over a decade. As a result, it would take a severe load for my body to not be able to handle the stress of regular training.
In other words, the people worried the most about “overtraining” are the exact ones who need to be worried less about it and more about forcing their bodies to adapt.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Fulmen wrote:
Okay, back to bodybuilding, so our only home doesn’t get deleted.
How would you go about increasing protein synthesis naturally? Just the basics-eat big, lift big, sleep big?
My body has become more responsive over time in that I know I consume and actually use more protein now than I did when I was much smaller. This is based on metabolism, the level of muscle mass and how your body adapts to training over the course of years. I have never taken more than a few days off from training in well over a decade. As a result, it would take a severe load for my body to not be able to handle the stress of regular training.
In other words, the people worried the most about “overtraining” are the exact ones who need to be worried less about it and more about forcing their bodies to adapt.[/quote]
Agreed. I remember before I started force feeding myself, I could stave off hunger longer. Shit, I can’t go for more than 2 hours now without wanting food.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Me neither, there’s a member who’s rejoined three times as his acct has been deleted over petty shit like this.[/quote]
And he squats great numbers for his age, too.
Great thread Fulmen, it has a presence that reminds me of the site when I first started lurking, besides the previous incident.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
In other words, the people worried the most about “overtraining” are the exact ones who need to be worried less about it and more about forcing their bodies to adapt.[/quote]
Unless one is bashing the term, I think “overtraining” should be banned from this thread as well.
It is an excuse for the little people to take a break and worry about their tupperware.
Jehovas-PM me your email address. I am no longer allowed to send PM’s as a result of the very topic.
As for protein, I want to throw out that I don’t think alot of guys who are eating large amounts of protein are getting the full benefits of their large intake, which means less protein synthesis then there should be because there is less protein. Let me explain, I think alot of people (especially us big eaters) have digestive tracts taht are working all that well. Enter digestive enzymes: I think most bodybuilders should be taking them because it really helps with digestion and absorbtion. And after, its not how much you eat, but how much you absorb. I think alot of guys are wasting their protein cuz its just going straight through without them being able to absorb it properly.
Just my thoughts. Try some digestive enzymes/probiotics etc.
[quote]Fulmen wrote:
Agreed. I remember before I started force feeding myself, I could stave off hunger longer. Shit, I can’t go for more than 2 hours now without wanting food.
[/quote]
Bro, I’m hungry 24/7 and I eat constently throughout the day. However, I do hear it from my dad when I finish off the eggs or eat all the leftovers, but it’s alright.
Do you guys think that your body tells you to eat because it needs to repair the muscles you damaged with training, or do you think it’s habitual that eating so much so often means you’ll be hungry if you break pattern?
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Bro, I’m hungry 24/7 and I eat constently throughout the day. However, I do hear it from my dad when I finish off the eggs or eat all the leftovers, but it’s alright.
Do you guys think that your body tells you to eat because it needs to repair the muscles you damaged with training, or do you think it’s habitual that eating so much so often means you’ll be hungry if you break pattern?[/quote]
Because we need it. I sometimes have to break pattern because of work (though no longer than an hour), so I KNOW I get hungry because I need it.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Unless one is bashing the term, I think “overtraining” should be banned from this thread as well.
It is an excuse for the little people to take a break and worry about their tupperware. [/quote]
I motion to place “overtraining” as an unnutterable here. Are there any to second this motion?
[quote]GetSwole wrote:
Jehovas-PM me your email address. I am no longer allowed to send PM’s as a result of the very topic.
As for protein, I want to throw out that I don’t think alot of guys who are eating large amounts of protein are getting the full benefits of their large intake, which means less protein synthesis then there should be because there is less protein. Let me explain, I think alot of people (especially us big eaters) have digestive tracts taht are working all that well. Enter digestive enzymes: I think most bodybuilders should be taking them because it really helps with digestion and absorbtion. And after, its not how much you eat, but how much you absorb. I think alot of guys are wasting their protein cuz its just going straight through without them being able to absorb it properly.
Just my thoughts. Try some digestive enzymes/probiotics etc.[/quote]
I’m all about helping absorption, that’s why I’m one step ahead of ya and taking some enzymes bud.
[quote]GetSwole wrote:
Jehovas-PM me your email address. I am no longer allowed to send PM’s as a result of the very topic.
As for protein, I want to throw out that I don’t think alot of guys who are eating large amounts of protein are getting the full benefits of their large intake, which means less protein synthesis then there should be because there is less protein. Let me explain, I think alot of people (especially us big eaters) have digestive tracts taht are working all that well. Enter digestive enzymes: I think most bodybuilders should be taking them because it really helps with digestion and absorbtion. And after, its not how much you eat, but how much you absorb. I think alot of guys are wasting their protein cuz its just going straight through without them being able to absorb it properly.
Just my thoughts. Try some digestive enzymes/probiotics etc.[/quote]
I think too many put way too much focus on protein as if that alone is going to cause them to grow. Your overall caloric intake is most important. How many carbs and fats you can get away with is completely individual and shouldn’t even follow some flat outline.
Most newbies today avoid eating enough period because they have been scared into believing their most concern should be placed on how much body fat they carry.
Dave Tate was mentioned earlier. You actually had people act as if he would be that size without bulking up for several years.
Very few very large individuals are going to agree with that…yet people act as if that doesn’t mean much.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Do you guys think that your body tells you to eat because it needs to repair the muscles you damaged with training, or do you think it’s habitual that eating so much so often means you’ll be hungry if you break pattern?[/quote]
I think it is both. I think your body gets used to being fed every 2 hours, and then when you go 4 hours - it thinks you are starving.
I know when I get into a phase of training hard (I have to back off my training quite a bit during tax season), it takes hardly anytime at all before I am hungry all the time.
What do you guys think is a good guideline on how often should “hit the brakes” so to say, and do a short reset in a long term bulking phase to rip some fat off and then continue upwards? And how much time should one spend away from bulking to do this?
The body processes nutrients, protein included, best when you are under 15% bodyfat because there is better insulin sensitivity. So, the solution is to stay between 12% or under for bodybuilders, according to my opinion, what I have observed, and the authors I have been influenced by.
Being obese or eating a lot trans or too much saturated fats in proportion to monos and polys causes a lot of inflammation around the arteries and this causes a decrease in insulin sensitivity.
So, I say, like everyone else who knows nutrition, have a 1/3, 1/3, and 1/3 split between monos, sats, and polys and yes, a la Poliquin and the gurus, I do think eating fatty fish three times per week is good for this too (sea trout, salmon, mackerel, sardines, etc). However, I am not buying any fish oil capsules.
I am with Tom Venuto in that as kcals go up, you need to increase your protein to maintain a consistent macronutrient percentage (ie: 50% CHO, 30% pro, 20% fat, the type of macronutr %age most BBers follow). Just getting bigger by increasing carbs and fats while not proportionally increasing pro can lead to fat gain IMO and others.
What the ideal protein intake for BBers is, is beyond us and most people have their own theories. I happen to be a registered dietitian (RDs) and most RDs, well most of whom have no clue about BBing and BBing nutrition state that an athlete only needs 0.8 to 1 g/kg!
I do not know if I’d be able to support one of my legs on this sort of protein intake! Regular athletes do not have the aims of building as much muscular mass as possible, such as BBers do. That is something to think about.
I do not think the lack of digestion of protein is because of some faulty digestive tract. I never heard of a faulty digestive tract throughout an entire BS degree in nutrition, a dietetic internship and my masters advanced metabolism classes. Maybe it is the case, maybe it is not.
However, some high protein intakes (ie: >2 grams/lb bodyweight) is useless IMO. The body can and will break down excessive amino acids via de- and transamination of amino acids and form new glucose molecules or fat cells. So, after a point, protein will just be used for energy or fat storage.
Protein should be in between 1 to 1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight depending on the goal. For losing weight, kcals will be dropped, so along with that, some protein grams will be dropped.
Or some people like to increase protein intake while simultaneously dropping kcals. Depends on the person and goal and their experimentation and experience with different amounts. I can’t see 2 g/lb as some gurus suggest unless you are on high doses of anabolics.
Getting the proper amount of protein sparing nutrients, CHO and fat, aids in pro synthesis as well.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
austin_bicep wrote:
Do you guys think that your body tells you to eat because it needs to repair the muscles you damaged with training, or do you think it’s habitual that eating so much so often means you’ll be hungry if you break pattern?
I think it is both. I think your body gets used to being fed every 2 hours, and then when you go 4 hours - it thinks you are starving.
I know when I get into a phase of training hard (I have to back off my training quite a bit during tax season), it takes hardly anytime at all before I am hungry all the time. [/quote]
I think it does to some degree. I can feel this after a training session. Sometimes after a beast training session, especially if I did some PWO steady-state or something, I will just be ravenous after an hour. I get an initial post-exercise non-desire to eat if you will, but an hour later, bam I wanna scarf everything in sight. Other, less intense, days I just don’t feel the need/desire.
People need to learn to listen to their bodies, not Dr. Internet Guru.
And PX I agree with you about the protein, the more of other nutrients you consume, the less your body needs protein. I was just making the point that I think alot of us using alot of powder, eating alot of red meat etc etc are not absorbing everything we are consuming which could shortchange our gains. I think its just the nature of the body having to digest lots of food on a regular basis. I only make this statement from others who have shared their experiences with me, and my recent experiences with digestive enzymes/supplemental fiber etc etc.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
What do you guys think is a good guideline on how often should “hit the brakes” so to say, and do a short reset in a long term bulking phase to rip some fat off and then continue upwards? And how much time should one spend away from bulking to do this?[/quote]
Tweak it as you go along. Measure your bodyfat percentage every 2 to 4 weeks while bulking. If it goes beyond 12%, then tweak the kcals down by about 10 to 15%. Berardi has good guidelines for this. If you want to get absolutely SHREDDED, then you will have to monitor yourself constantly IMO.
Just do not go above 12% off season. I am in agreement with Duchaine, in that excessive bulk makes things very difficult and ruins vascularity and skin tautness even when you come back down.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
What do you guys think is a good guideline on how often should “hit the brakes” so to say, and do a short reset in a long term bulking phase to rip some fat off and then continue upwards? And how much time should one spend away from bulking to do this?[/quote]
If you gain fat, just cut some calories and throw in some low to mid-intensity cardio. Don’t freak out and start a cutting phase until you finish bulking.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
What do you guys think is a good guideline on how often should “hit the brakes” so to say, and do a short reset in a long term bulking phase to rip some fat off and then continue upwards? And how much time should one spend away from bulking to do this?[/quote]
Mini bulk-cuts are stupid. If anything, if you feel like you are gaining fat to quickly. simply cut back the food or up the cardio until its a reasonable pace. These dumb 4 week bulks 1 week cuts are pointless and probably do the opposite of what you want.
Example, you are eating 4500kcal a day for 8 weeks, then for 2 weeks you figure you’ll drop as much fat as possible and drop down to 1800. Soon as you start your ‘bulk’ again your body is gonna put that fat back on because the body likes homeostasis and normalcy. Its not productive, its a waste of time.
For bulking and cutting, calories have to be gradually tapered up and down for it to be useful so the body can adjust accordingly. And that is far too time consuming (we are talking about a couple weeks at a time here) to do on a regular basis.
You should just play it out and if your getting too fat too fast, drop the intake down a little or up the cardio and let the body burn off some fat gradually. Its not productive to try a “shed fat quick” scheme every few weeks in a effort to maintain a decent BF level.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Just do not go above 12% off season. I am in agreement with Duchaine, in that excessive bulk makes things very difficult and ruins vascularity and skin tautness even when you come back down.
[/quote]
I disagree with that. Not becoming a fat ass I can agree with, but you’d be slowing yourself down if you tried to stay at 12%. It doesn’t ruin vascularity or none of that shit when you come back down, at least not from what I’ve seen.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
GetSwole wrote:
Jehovas-PM me your email address. I am no longer allowed to send PM’s as a result of the very topic.
As for protein, I want to throw out that I don’t think alot of guys who are eating large amounts of protein are getting the full benefits of their large intake, which means less protein synthesis then there should be because there is less protein. Let me explain, I think alot of people (especially us big eaters) have digestive tracts taht are working all that well. Enter digestive enzymes: I think most bodybuilders should be taking them because it really helps with digestion and absorbtion. And after, its not how much you eat, but how much you absorb. I think alot of guys are wasting their protein cuz its just going straight through without them being able to absorb it properly.
Just my thoughts. Try some digestive enzymes/probiotics etc.
I think too many put way too much focus on protein as if that alone is going to cause them to grow. Your overall caloric intake is most important. How many carbs and fats you can get away with is completely individual and shouldn’t even follow some flat outline. Most newbies today avoid eating enough period because they have been scared into believing their most concern should be placed on how much body fat they carry.
Dave Tate was mentioned earlier. You actually had people act as if he would be that size without bulking up for several years.
Very few very large individuals are going to agree with that…yet people act as if that doesn’t mean much.[/quote]
I agree with you Prof, in that I have not seen a large individual become large by eating like a bird. However, would you not agree that it makes this much harder and creates more work, a miserable contest prep, when you have so much fat to lose. The longer you stay fat, the harder it is to get rid of, a la the set point theory.
Being overly fat also causes a decrease in insulin sensitivity. I do not think any physique conscious person should be above 12% bf even if its offseason.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Professor X wrote:
GetSwole wrote:
Jehovas-PM me your email address. I am no longer allowed to send PM’s as a result of the very topic.
As for protein, I want to throw out that I don’t think alot of guys who are eating large amounts of protein are getting the full benefits of their large intake, which means less protein synthesis then there should be because there is less protein. Let me explain, I think alot of people (especially us big eaters) have digestive tracts taht are working all that well. Enter digestive enzymes: I think most bodybuilders should be taking them because it really helps with digestion and absorbtion. And after, its not how much you eat, but how much you absorb. I think alot of guys are wasting their protein cuz its just going straight through without them being able to absorb it properly.
Just my thoughts. Try some digestive enzymes/probiotics etc.
I think too many put way too much focus on protein as if that alone is going to cause them to grow. Your overall caloric intake is most important. How many carbs and fats you can get away with is completely individual and shouldn’t even follow some flat outline. Most newbies today avoid eating enough period because they have been scared into believing their most concern should be placed on how much body fat they carry.
Dave Tate was mentioned earlier. You actually had people act as if he would be that size without bulking up for several years.
Very few very large individuals are going to agree with that…yet people act as if that doesn’t mean much.
I agree with you Prof, in that I have not seen a large individual become large by eating like a bird. However, would you not agree that it makes this much harder and creates more work, a miserable contest prep, when you have so much fat to lose. The longer you stay fat, the harder it is to get rid of, a la the set point theory. Being overly fat also causes a decrease in insulin sensitivity. I do not think any physique conscious person should be above 12% bf even if its offseason.
[/quote]
X has never recommended anyone getting fat while bulking. His point was that you have to eat big to get big, and to not worry so much about a six pack at first.