it’s because of ZE ROIDZ RAGEEEEZZZZZZZ
[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
How are you going to compare Testosterone to painkillers? Who the hell buys pain killers to get high when weed, ecstasy, shrooms, alcohol are easily available?
On the other hand “supplementing” with Testosterone can be used to help create hormonal balances as well as to help build large amounts of muscle.
[/quote]
Huh? Do you really believe there’s no black market for painkillers? I’ve had at least 3 different people offer me money for my pain pills. One because he has no insurance and gets serious toothaches and the others for recreational purposes. They have access to weed and smoke regularly. Pain killers and anti-anxiety pills valium are a different high. Especially when you mix them with a little alcohol. [/quote]
I think that kid is a bit of a “life-virgin.”
[/quote]
Maybe I wrote my statement the wrong way. I know there’s people that use painkillers to get high but what I mean is that there are other options for similar effects.
Test on the other hand is one of the main drugs to raise testosterone levels. So there’s not a lot of other options to choose from.
And yes heavytriple I’m a total “life virgin” because I’ve never used painkillers as a recreational drug…please man get out of here with that shit.[/quote]
Allow me to elaborate; you are a “life virgin” because you are naive enough to think that there would not be a significant black market for painkillers simply because there are other options that give similar effects. I’m not particularly old at 25, and I’ve never used painkillers myself, but I’ve certainly seen them abused by all types of addicts. If there’s one thing I’ve learned about drug-addicts it’s that they are always looking for new highs and are willing to experiment with anything (i.e. painkillers). Furthermore, painkillers offer a very specific brand of high that is sought out by many people. Ever heard of Oxycontin? Are you going to argue that it is not one of the most abused drugs out there? So I repeat, you are a “life virgin.” You simply have too little experience in life to make a blanket statement like you did.
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
How are you going to compare Testosterone to painkillers? Who the hell buys pain killers to get high when weed, ecstasy, shrooms, alcohol are easily available?
On the other hand “supplementing” with Testosterone can be used to help create hormonal balances as well as to help build large amounts of muscle.
[/quote]
Huh? Do you really believe there’s no black market for painkillers? I’ve had at least 3 different people offer me money for my pain pills. One because he has no insurance and gets serious toothaches and the others for recreational purposes. They have access to weed and smoke regularly. Pain killers and anti-anxiety pills valium are a different high. Especially when you mix them with a little alcohol. [/quote]
I think that kid is a bit of a “life-virgin.”
[/quote]
Maybe I wrote my statement the wrong way. I know there’s people that use painkillers to get high but what I mean is that there are other options for similar effects.
Test on the other hand is one of the main drugs to raise testosterone levels. So there’s not a lot of other options to choose from.
And yes heavytriple I’m a total “life virgin” because I’ve never used painkillers as a recreational drug…please man get out of here with that shit.[/quote]
Allow me to elaborate; you are a “life virgin” because you are naive enough to think that there would not be a significant black market for painkillers simply because there are other options that give similar effects. I’m not particularly old at 25, and I’ve never used painkillers myself, but I’ve certainly seen them abused by all types of addicts. If there’s one thing I’ve learned about drug-addicts it’s that they are always looking for new highs and are willing to experiment with anything (i.e. painkillers). Furthermore, painkillers offer a very specific brand of high that is sought out by many people. Ever heard of Oxycontin? Are you going to argue that it is not one of the most abused drugs out there? So I repeat, you are a “life virgin.” You simply have too little experience in life to make a blanket statement like you did.[/quote]
This has nothing to do with personal use or experience.
What I was saying is that when trying to raise testosterone there isn’t many drugs to choose from. So comparing painkillers to testosterone supplementation was strange to me, that’s all.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
What are you arguing? Testosterone, vicodin or percocet is not banned. Just because YOUR doctor prescribes them willy nilly doesn’t mean it’s more legal then testosterone.
Percoset and Vicodin are both prescription as is TRT. What are you saying?[/quote]
I was disagreeing with this point you made:
“Women who don’t need birth control aren’t trying to buy their friends stash. They also aren’t trying to compete with their friends or get a stronger dose than neccessary. The same with most drugs that the FDA provides easier access to.”
If you’re saying the reason HRT is looked down upon is because people are running around trying to get their hands on it in the black market and abusing it, then the same could be said about percosets. Yet they are not demonized the way Testosterone is. Perc’s were my example as a drug that the FDA provides easier access to.
[/quote]
I wasn’t really addressing how it looks in the media. I think the reason the media frowns upon it so much is the lack of outward support. Yes everybody will come on here and say test is good, but when it comes to standing up for it people tend to shy away. I know street test is illegal and people don’t want to get caught, but the same thing can be said for weed. But if I run around at work screaming how bad weed is for you I know several people that will argue for days. However, mention steriods in the gym and everybody’s tone drops 100 decibals. The media is not going to get behind something with no outspoken supporters, and this is more likely the reason it’s more frowned upon than other drugs.
[quote]dirtbag wrote:
I am 35 this year and feel like I am 85.
[/quote]
THIS. I am 25 and in early March, I found out that not only do I have low Test, I’m actually below the normal range entirely. For months I felt like an old ass man, never wanting to do a thing and I finally got it checked out. My urologist ended up being a guy from my gym (didn’t now this before hand) and I thought I was screwed on getting any help. His reaction was “well, you have every reason to feel the way you do. I can send you home with a scrip for some TRT but I think we need to send you to an endo to check these other levels.” So that’s currently what I’m doing, I’ll get my new results on May 24 and I’m more than excited.
All that being said, I feel more than fortunate that the system has been super easy to deal with in my case.
[quote]jholla10 wrote:
[quote]dirtbag wrote:
I am 35 this year and feel like I am 85.
[/quote]
THIS. I am 25 and in early March, I found out that not only do I have low Test, I’m actually below the normal range entirely. For months I felt like an old ass man, never wanting to do a thing and I finally got it checked out. My urologist ended up being a guy from my gym (didn’t now this before hand) and I thought I was screwed on getting any help. His reaction was “well, you have every reason to feel the way you do. I can send you home with a scrip for some TRT but I think we need to send you to an endo to check these other levels.” So that’s currently what I’m doing, I’ll get my new results on May 24 and I’m more than excited.
All that being said, I feel more than fortunate that the system has been super easy to deal with in my case.[/quote]
That’s actually very good to hear.
What really gets me are the guidelines though because if a guy is feeling this way yet is one point above the lower normal range, he can not get treated for low test apparently.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]jholla10 wrote:
[quote]dirtbag wrote:
I am 35 this year and feel like I am 85.
[/quote]
THIS. I am 25 and in early March, I found out that not only do I have low Test, I’m actually below the normal range entirely. For months I felt like an old ass man, never wanting to do a thing and I finally got it checked out. My urologist ended up being a guy from my gym (didn’t now this before hand) and I thought I was screwed on getting any help. His reaction was “well, you have every reason to feel the way you do. I can send you home with a scrip for some TRT but I think we need to send you to an endo to check these other levels.” So that’s currently what I’m doing, I’ll get my new results on May 24 and I’m more than excited.
All that being said, I feel more than fortunate that the system has been super easy to deal with in my case.[/quote]
That’s actually very good to hear.
What really gets me are the guidelines though because if a guy is feeling this way yet is one point above the lower normal range, he can not get treated for low test apparently.
[/quote]
Oh you can get treated. it’s just finding the right Doc.
[quote]jholla10 wrote:
[quote]dirtbag wrote:
I am 35 this year and feel like I am 85.
[/quote]
THIS. I am 25 and in early March, I found out that not only do I have low Test, I’m actually below the normal range entirely. For months I felt like an old ass man, never wanting to do a thing and I finally got it checked out. My urologist ended up being a guy from my gym (didn’t now this before hand) and I thought I was screwed on getting any help. His reaction was “well, you have every reason to feel the way you do. I can send you home with a scrip for some TRT but I think we need to send you to an endo to check these other levels.” So that’s currently what I’m doing, I’ll get my new results on May 24 and I’m more than excited.
All that being said, I feel more than fortunate that the system has been super easy to deal with in my case.[/quote]
Hey when your there ask your endo about HCG. You might be able to kick start your own production without needing out side testosterone.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]jholla10 wrote:
[quote]dirtbag wrote:
I am 35 this year and feel like I am 85.
[/quote]
THIS. I am 25 and in early March, I found out that not only do I have low Test, I’m actually below the normal range entirely. For months I felt like an old ass man, never wanting to do a thing and I finally got it checked out. My urologist ended up being a guy from my gym (didn’t now this before hand) and I thought I was screwed on getting any help. His reaction was “well, you have every reason to feel the way you do. I can send you home with a scrip for some TRT but I think we need to send you to an endo to check these other levels.” So that’s currently what I’m doing, I’ll get my new results on May 24 and I’m more than excited.
All that being said, I feel more than fortunate that the system has been super easy to deal with in my case.[/quote]
That’s actually very good to hear.
What really gets me are the guidelines though because if a guy is feeling this way yet is one point above the lower normal range, he can not get treated for low test apparently.
[/quote]
My problem is my dr is stalling and looking for excuses to play the run around game. He always bugs me about getting in to see him. But when I do he this is how he handles it. I think because I am a bigger then average guy he see’s someone that does steroids. He has made comments about me bulking up.
I am going to be completely honest.
I have tryed small doses of orals and test to just see if it helps my mood and keeps me normal. It does help but. Its still illegal and cause my Dr has been dicking me around for 2 years.
I have tried in the 2 years low dose of UG Test-E at 75-50mgs. The anxiety was a bit intense and I think I would need some kind of anti-anxiety meds.
Also tried keeping a level of dbol at or around 5mgs in my system. That worked wonders. I felt the best I have felt since I was a teen. Dbol seemed to have the most positive effect on mood and libido and confidence etc. Problem is you blow up on it. Also I got breathing issues while on it. Cardio went to shit.
I tryed the same with oral winstrol. But it did not have the same effect as the dbol, just lots of energy. And blood pressure was a bit high.
I suspect he thinks I am on something and will not tell him. Even so I will never tell him cause he might think I am trying to “score free stash”. I am not. I wish I could so I can get back to enjoying life with my kid. My immune system can’t even handle working out more then 3 times a week without catching a cold cause repair it next to nil.
[quote]jholla10 wrote:
[quote]dirtbag wrote:
I am 35 this year and feel like I am 85.
[/quote]
THIS. I am 25 and in early March, I found out that not only do I have low Test, I’m actually below the normal range entirely. For months I felt like an old ass man, never wanting to do a thing and I finally got it checked out. My urologist ended up being a guy from my gym (didn’t now this before hand) and I thought I was screwed on getting any help. His reaction was “well, you have every reason to feel the way you do. I can send you home with a scrip for some TRT but I think we need to send you to an endo to check these other levels.” So that’s currently what I’m doing, I’ll get my new results on May 24 and I’m more than excited.
All that being said, I feel more than fortunate that the system has been super easy to deal with in my case.[/quote]
That’s great. Usually you would have trouble finding a Dr. to look at a 25 YO test levels and they would automatically want to put you on some sort of anti-depressant. The symptoms of low T mirror depression, and most men don’t even know this. I can guarantee there are hundreds of poor souls out there who who went to the Dr complaining about being tired and uninterested in life…who had low T …but instead got that nasty antidepressant drug pushed on them instead of HRT.
Follow the money!!
[quote]dirtbag wrote:
*I have tryed small doses of orals and test
I have tried in the 2 years low dose of UG Test-E at 75-50mgs.
Also tried keeping a level of dbol at or around 5mgs in my system. That worked wonders.
*I tryed the same with oral winstrol.
I suspect he thinks I am on something and will not tell him. [/quote]
Uhhh…duhh…it’s because you ARE!
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
[quote]jholla10 wrote:
[quote]dirtbag wrote:
I am 35 this year and feel like I am 85.
[/quote]
THIS. I am 25 and in early March, I found out that not only do I have low Test, I’m actually below the normal range entirely. For months I felt like an old ass man, never wanting to do a thing and I finally got it checked out. My urologist ended up being a guy from my gym (didn’t now this before hand) and I thought I was screwed on getting any help. His reaction was “well, you have every reason to feel the way you do. I can send you home with a scrip for some TRT but I think we need to send you to an endo to check these other levels.” So that’s currently what I’m doing, I’ll get my new results on May 24 and I’m more than excited.
All that being said, I feel more than fortunate that the system has been super easy to deal with in my case.[/quote]
That’s great. Usually you would have trouble finding a Dr. to look at a 25 YO test levels and they would automatically want to put you on some sort of anti-depressant. The symptoms of low T mirror depression, and most men don’t even know this. I can guarantee there are hundreds of poor souls out there who who went to the Dr complaining about being tired and uninterested in life…who had low T …but instead got that nasty antidepressant drug pushed on them instead of HRT.
Follow the money!!
[/quote]
Also cholesterol drugs as well. If you hormones are in the right levels(as in testosterone in the 800 +) your cholesterol levels should be good, barring any genetic issues. There is a whole slew of issues that rise when your hormones are all jacked up.
[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
How are you going to compare Testosterone to painkillers? Who the hell buys pain killers to get high when weed, ecstasy, shrooms, alcohol are easily available?
On the other hand “supplementing” with Testosterone can be used to help create hormonal balances as well as to help build large amounts of muscle.
[/quote]
Huh? Do you really believe there’s no black market for painkillers? I’ve had at least 3 different people offer me money for my pain pills. One because he has no insurance and gets serious toothaches and the others for recreational purposes. They have access to weed and smoke regularly. Pain killers and anti-anxiety pills valium are a different high. Especially when you mix them with a little alcohol. [/quote]
I think that kid is a bit of a “life-virgin.”
[/quote]
Maybe I wrote my statement the wrong way. I know there’s people that use painkillers to get high but what I mean is that there are other options for similar effects.
Test on the other hand is one of the main drugs to raise testosterone levels. So there’s not a lot of other options to choose from.
And yes heavytriple I’m a total “life virgin” because I’ve never used painkillers as a recreational drug…please man get out of here with that shit.[/quote]
Allow me to elaborate; you are a “life virgin” because you are naive enough to think that there would not be a significant black market for painkillers simply because there are other options that give similar effects. I’m not particularly old at 25, and I’ve never used painkillers myself, but I’ve certainly seen them abused by all types of addicts. If there’s one thing I’ve learned about drug-addicts it’s that they are always looking for new highs and are willing to experiment with anything (i.e. painkillers). Furthermore, painkillers offer a very specific brand of high that is sought out by many people. Ever heard of Oxycontin? Are you going to argue that it is not one of the most abused drugs out there? So I repeat, you are a “life virgin.” You simply have too little experience in life to make a blanket statement like you did.[/quote]
This has nothing to do with personal use or experience.
What I was saying is that when trying to raise testosterone there isn’t many drugs to choose from. So comparing painkillers to testosterone supplementation was strange to me, that’s all.[/quote]
Fair enough. Your statement came off differently to me and others, hence the response. What you just said makes more sense.
Okay… so my Dad (mid-50s) has all the signs of low-T. He’s always been athletic, now he’s experiencing a text-book case of what you’re all describing.
He went to an endocrinologist. He said his Test was in the “normal” range, but on the low side. My dad has good insurance. What kind of specialist/who do I need to push to him to go see so he can get the right treatment, or at least talk to someone who is open to the right treatment?
Thanks.
[quote]dianab wrote:
What I don’t get is why are women encouraged to have hormone replacement/supplementation, basically from the time we are old enough to make a baby until menopause and beyond, and it’s so taboo for a man to get the very substance that makes him male. It’s like the dangers of female cancers and health issues that may be caused by loading our bodies with excess estrogen for years are no big deal compared with the evils of test.
[/quote]
I believe it’s because an older man on HRT is less profitable. I mean older men on HRT see their overall health improve, but better health means less profit for the medical industry. On the other hand women on HRT don’t see a real improvement in their health, actually it’s the opposite.
In older men a bunch of age related degenerative diseases and illnesses can be almost cured, or at least dramatically alleviated by just taking test…
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
.
[/quote]
Just wanna say you win for the best avatar on TN.
Now if you could do that pointy finger thing and say “squat” really loud, that would be perfect.
carry on with the cereal discussions now
[quote]dirtbag wrote:
My problem is my dr is stalling and looking for excuses to play the run around game. He always bugs me about getting in to see him. But when I do he this is how he handles it. I think because I am a bigger then average guy he see’s someone that does steroids. He has made comments about me bulking up.
I am going to be completely honest.
I have tryed small doses of orals and test to just see if it helps my mood and keeps me normal. It does help but. Its still illegal and cause my Dr has been dicking me around for 2 years.
I have tried in the 2 years low dose of UG Test-E at 75-50mgs. The anxiety was a bit intense and I think I would need some kind of anti-anxiety meds.
Also tried keeping a level of dbol at or around 5mgs in my system. That worked wonders. I felt the best I have felt since I was a teen. Dbol seemed to have the most positive effect on mood and libido and confidence etc. Problem is you blow up on it. Also I got breathing issues while on it. Cardio went to shit.
I tryed the same with oral winstrol. But it did not have the same effect as the dbol, just lots of energy. And blood pressure was a bit high.
I suspect he thinks I am on something and will not tell him. Even so I will never tell him cause he might think I am trying to “score free stash”. I am not. I wish I could so I can get back to enjoying life with my kid. My immune system can’t even handle working out more then 3 times a week without catching a cold cause repair it next to nil.[/quote]
Have you tried being as open and honest with your doctor as you have been in the above post?
If you feel this is not an option, hit a walk in clinic and try your luck, you may hit a sympathetic doc who will refer you to a doctor who specializes in mens health issues. Your local board of health may even be able to refer you to a clinic that has someone on staff who deals specifically with mens health. Our health care system has it’s problems, but you are not locked into one doctor or treatment plan.
[quote]Berserkergang wrote:
[quote]dianab wrote:
What I don’t get is why are women encouraged to have hormone replacement/supplementation, basically from the time we are old enough to make a baby until menopause and beyond, and it’s so taboo for a man to get the very substance that makes him male. It’s like the dangers of female cancers and health issues that may be caused by loading our bodies with excess estrogen for years are no big deal compared with the evils of test.
[/quote]
I believe it’s because an older man on HRT is less profitable. I mean older men on HRT see their overall health improve, but better health means less profit for the medical industry. On the other hand women on HRT don’t see a real improvement in their health, actually it’s the opposite.
In older men a bunch of age related degenerative diseases and illnesses can be almost cured, or at least dramatically alleviated by just taking test…
[/quote]
This would be my hypothesis also. Would be interested in comments from any med pros or others with a sense of how pharma costs would compare between HRT patients and those who receive more common drugs.
[quote]JaX Un wrote:
it’s because of ZE ROIDZ RAGEEEEZZZZZZZ[/quote]
LOL, I was recently accused by someone of being on steroids simply because I had been more assertive/forceful than she was accustomed to from me. Just goes to show how that stupid roid rage myth has been perpetuated to the point that the general public doesn’t even question it anymore.
I think it was Hitler’s propaganda minister, Goebbels, who said that if you repeat a lie often enough, everyone will accept it as the truth.
[quote]Spartiates wrote:
Okay… so my Dad (mid-50s) has all the signs of low-T. He’s always been athletic, now he’s experiencing a text-book case of what you’re all describing.
He went to an endocrinologist. He said his Test was in the “normal” range, but on the low side. My dad has good insurance. What kind of specialist/who do I need to push to him to go see so he can get the right treatment, or at least talk to someone who is open to the right treatment?
Thanks.[/quote]
Insurance will not matter if you want to talk to someone that knows what they are doing in this field of study. But don’t let that scare you away, it is not that expensive. Like I said before google for a bioidentical hormone doctor in your area.
Call alot of them and ask them if they perscribe injectable testosterone, HCG and give a anti-estrogen. These are all thing your dad is going to need. I suggest reading this Forums - T Nation - The World's Trusted Community for Elite Fitness