-More Testosterone may make a better social animal out of you-
I know, it’s only a study. But this really fits fine into my personal view: Testless dudes are often the most isolated nerds who have no clue how to deal with other human beings at the most basic level.
airtruth,
shit how many cops/dea/[insert federal agent here] would loose there jobs if they legalized mary jane on the federal level? Prohibition does not work. I can’t wait till all these oldworld thinking fucks get out of office.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
I also think it has a lot to do with what people view as “recreational” drugs. For example Testosterone supplementation is seen as a DRUG with the means of getting big muscle and exchanging athletic abilities.
Just like any other “recreational” drug, Test is not view as something necessary for someones good health but instead it’s viewed as something people use because they WANT and not necessarily NEED.
[/quote]
Women don’t NEED breast implants or botox injections either. It is not viewed as something necessary for someones good health but instead it’s viewed as something people use because they WANT and not necessarily NEED.
[/quote]
Great point, but you don’t need to limit your examples to cosmetic stuff like implants or botox. Think for a moment why women use estrogen replacement: to eliminate unpleasant menopause symptoms like hot flashes and fat gain; to restore their libido and sexual functioning; to restore the protection against heart disease that pre-menopausal women enjoy.
Hellooo??? Replacement testosterone does damn near all the same things for aging men! We should thank the goddamn retarded media for demonizing test thanks to a handful of guys who use it to help them break home run records in baseball.
And it’s flawed logic the media idiots are applying, too… Just because I can use a pen to write crib notes that would help me cheat on an exam doesn’t mean that ANY use of pens should be suspect.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Standard Donkey wrote:
[quote]Spartiates wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]dianab wrote:
What I don’t get is why are women encouraged to have hormone replacement/supplementation, basically from the time we are old enough to make a baby until menopause and beyond, and it’s so taboo for a man to get the very substance that makes him male. It’s like the dangers of female cancers and health issues that may be caused by loading our bodies with excess estrogen for years are no big deal compared with the evils of test.
[/quote]
My fiancee (who has been taking oral estrogen from an early age for her skin) tried to lecture me once on how she would hate me if I ever started taking testosterone. I made sure she never had the nerve to bring it up again.[/quote]
Did she ever explain here reasoning there?
[/quote]
Women and reasoning? Surely you jest![/quote]
Good point.
My mistake…I thought this involved logic.[/quote]
You know, I don’t blame it on her being female - it’s the damn reporters who perpetuate garbage about steroids who are to blame, and most of them are male.
I was in the supplements section of warehouse store one time and noticed a couple looking at a tub of - of all things - creatine! The guy had picked it up and the girl said to him, “You don’t want to touch that stuff, it can make you go into a killer rage.”
I just silently shook my head and walked off, but I thought to myself that she is not so much to blame as is all the ridiculous misinformation that’s passed around as fact.
I watched an episode of 30 days last night that covered this very topic. The show ( Shows on FX ) is created and hosted by the guy from Supersize Me. It’s the 2nd episode from the 1st season and available on netflix streaming.
Anyway, they took a 34 y/o chubby average Joe and put him on growth hormone and testosterone for a month while under the care of an HRT specialist and and general doctor. The showed his progress and by the 3rd week they blamed liver issues, roid rage, and a sperm count that went from 80 million live to 300 dead all on the treatment. I can’t explain the amount of bias in words here, you really have to see the episode. Unfortunately FX doesn’t have the 1st season but if any of you guys have a netflix account, check it out.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Lock wrote:
A question for the doctors on board here:
Can you freely express your views on the positive effects testosterone has on the body in your workplace?
Or do risk actually losing your job if you do that?[/quote]
Not an answer to your question, but I have heard that the DEA or some other agency actually tracks doctors prescribing T. Too much and you become a suspected person, I’d assume…[/quote]
[i]Administration of testosterone that a reasonable physician would regard as falling within the accepted standard of medical care requires abnormally low morning testosterone levels to be demonstrated. Besides male hypogonadism, AIDS wasting syndrome is a potential indication for testosterone supplementation.
Therefore, prescribing or distributing testosterone or other AAS for body-building, athletic use or other situations where the patient demonstrates normal testosterone levels would be considered professional misconduct and unethical practice in nearly all US states and a felony under US Federal law (the Anabolic Steroid Act). [/i]
From Aging Health April 2010, Volume 6, Number 2
Here’s the PDF of the entire article: http://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/pdf/10.2217/ahe.10.11
This editorial is written by Thomas Perls, MD, MPH
Associate Professor of Medicine and Geriatrics
And IMHO, he’s a closed-minded prick. But he is representative of most doctors who refuse to see the facts beyond their small minds and huge egos.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Hey X…are you lurking in the shadows of that avatar for a reason, or did you just forget to pay your Electric bill?[/quote]
LOL
I brought this subject up with my girlfriend, and this was her take on it:
People need birth control pills because condoms aren’t 100% effective.
It is natural for a man’s testosterone’s level to go down so it isn’t necassery to give them more.
Breast implants/Botox are not natural so you have to pay for them at a private doctor, the same as testosterone. You also have to pay for birth control pills.
A woman can be given testosterone to become a man because ‘she is a woman trapped in a man’s body’ and it is necassery for that person to have a ‘happy’ life.
Fair points, I then asked:
Why in the above situation can the woman have testosterone to have a ‘happy’ life, but a man with very low test levels but in the ‘normal’ range can’t have any extra?
That stumped her for now.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Pretty much…
Women who don’t need birth control aren’t trying to buy their friends stash. They also aren’t trying to compete with their friends or get a stronger dose than neccessary. The same with most drugs that the FDA provides easier access to.
Test may help a ton of people but it gets into the wrong hands way to easy. If tons of 70 year old men started getting test from their doctor the first thing most of them would do is sell it. Yes the health nuts would love it but the couch potatoes would love the money way more.
The same thing with ephedra, weed and similar drugs where there are people who just want to get the most they can.
As a government official you would have to be scared of the snowball effect of teens taking stronger doses to compete with the next teen taking a stronger dose. The only reason alcohol is even legal is because of catostrophic effect it had on the economy and crime.[/quote]
So by this logic, should they ban percosets and valium as well? Testosterone is not the only drug that has the potential to be abused, yet the many other’s are prescribed willy nilly. My ortho asks me if I need painkillers every visit even though I keep telling him I stopped taking them 2 weeks after surgery. (its been 10 weeks since surgery now) I can just as easily take them and sell them at $5 a pop. That doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t ever be prescribed. [/quote]
What are you arguing? Testosterone, vicodin or percocet is not banned. Just because YOUR doctor prescribes them willy nilly doesn’t mean it’s more legal then testosterone.
Percoset and Vicodin are both prescription as is TRT. What are you saying?
[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
I brought this subject up with my girlfriend, and this was her take on it:
People need birth control pills because condoms aren’t 100% effective.
It is natural for a man’s testosterone’s level to go down so it isn’t necassery to give them more.
Breast implants/Botox are not natural so you have to pay for them at a private doctor, the same as testosterone. You also have to pay for birth control pills.
A woman can be given testosterone to become a man because ‘she is a woman trapped in a man’s body’ and it is necassery for that person to have a ‘happy’ life.
Fair points, I then asked:
Why in the above situation can the woman have testosterone to have a ‘happy’ life, but a man with very low test levels but in the ‘normal’ range can’t have any extra?
That stumped her for now.
[/quote]
Mention that many women take birth control for reasons other than contraception.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
What are you arguing? Testosterone, vicodin or percocet is not banned. Just because YOUR doctor prescribes them willy nilly doesn’t mean it’s more legal then testosterone.
Percoset and Vicodin are both prescription as is TRT. What are you saying?[/quote]
I was disagreeing with this point you made:
“Women who don’t need birth control aren’t trying to buy their friends stash. They also aren’t trying to compete with their friends or get a stronger dose than neccessary. The same with most drugs that the FDA provides easier access to.”
If you’re saying the reason HRT is looked down upon is because people are running around trying to get their hands on it in the black market and abusing it, then the same could be said about percosets. Yet they are not demonized the way Testosterone is. Perc’s were my example as a drug that the FDA provides easier access to.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Mention that many women take birth control for reasons other than contraception. [/quote]
Yeah, I’d go so far as to say that BC is largely taken for other reasons. It’s almost standard practice for docs to stick girls on birth control when they start having their periods to make them regular/not have.shorten periods, if having a period is painful or otherwise uncomfortable.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
What are you arguing? Testosterone, vicodin or percocet is not banned. Just because YOUR doctor prescribes them willy nilly doesn’t mean it’s more legal then testosterone.
Percoset and Vicodin are both prescription as is TRT. What are you saying?[/quote]
I was disagreeing with this point you made:
“Women who don’t need birth control aren’t trying to buy their friends stash. They also aren’t trying to compete with their friends or get a stronger dose than neccessary. The same with most drugs that the FDA provides easier access to.”
If you’re saying the reason HRT is looked down upon is because people are running around trying to get their hands on it in the black market and abusing it, then the same could be said about percosets. Yet they are not demonized the way Testosterone is. Perc’s were my example as a drug that the FDA provides easier access to.
[/quote]
Agreed. However, the FDA tracks how many scripts we write as well.
The bottom line is that the guidelines need to change. It should NOT be the government’s decision whether a doctor gives his own patient testosterone even if they aren’t technically hypogonadal. Treating a patient well isn’t just about treating their body but their mind as well if the goal is a better quality lifestyle and not just putting bandaids on injuries.
Someone will have to tell me why this is causing doctors to go to jail if the patient consented to treatment.
That makes as much sense as putting plastic surgeons in jail for doing breast implants.
This is a good thread X. Until I really started to look at my own levels, I never would have even cared to look into this more. Now it fascinates me.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
I watched an episode of 30 days last night that covered this very topic. The show ( Shows on FX ) is created and hosted by the guy from Supersize Me. It’s the 2nd episode from the 1st season and available on netflix streaming.
Anyway, they took a 34 y/o chubby average Joe and put him on growth hormone and testosterone for a month while under the care of an HRT specialist and and general doctor. The showed his progress and by the 3rd week they blamed liver issues, roid rage, and a sperm count that went from 80 million live to 300 dead all on the treatment. I can’t explain the amount of bias in words here, you really have to see the episode. Unfortunately FX doesn’t have the 1st season but if any of you guys have a netflix account, check it out. [/quote]
I saw this a long time ago and it drove me nuts. The couple was also very annoying. I hated everything about this particular show. I wanted to reach through the tube and strangle them all. It was over the top, tons of misinformation, and way too much drama. I hated it.
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
I watched an episode of 30 days last night that covered this very topic. The show ( Shows on FX ) is created and hosted by the guy from Supersize Me. It’s the 2nd episode from the 1st season and available on netflix streaming.
Anyway, they took a 34 y/o chubby average Joe and put him on growth hormone and testosterone for a month while under the care of an HRT specialist and and general doctor. The showed his progress and by the 3rd week they blamed liver issues, roid rage, and a sperm count that went from 80 million live to 300 dead all on the treatment. I can’t explain the amount of bias in words here, you really have to see the episode. Unfortunately FX doesn’t have the 1st season but if any of you guys have a netflix account, check it out. [/quote]
I saw this a long time ago and it drove me nuts. The couple was also very annoying. I hated everything about this particular show. I wanted to reach through the tube and strangle them all. It was over the top, tons of misinformation, and way too much drama. I hated it.
[/quote]
Agreed. I saw it too. That show is what made me not want to see anything else from him. The guy’s wife on that show was extremely irritating. I can see why guys are losing their testicular fortitude lately if they are hooking up with closed minded people like that for the rest of their lives.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
What are you arguing? Testosterone, vicodin or percocet is not banned. Just because YOUR doctor prescribes them willy nilly doesn’t mean it’s more legal then testosterone.
Percoset and Vicodin are both prescription as is TRT. What are you saying?[/quote]
I was disagreeing with this point you made:
“Women who don’t need birth control aren’t trying to buy their friends stash. They also aren’t trying to compete with their friends or get a stronger dose than neccessary. The same with most drugs that the FDA provides easier access to.”
If you’re saying the reason HRT is looked down upon is because people are running around trying to get their hands on it in the black market and abusing it, then the same could be said about percosets. Yet they are not demonized the way Testosterone is. Perc’s were my example as a drug that the FDA provides easier access to.
[/quote]
Agreed. However, the FDA tracks how many scripts we write as well.
The bottom line is that the guidelines need to change. It should NOT be the government’s decision whether a doctor gives his own patient testosterone even if they aren’t technically hypogonadal. Treating a patient well isn’t just about treating their body but their mind as well if the goal is a better quality lifestyle and not just putting bandaids on injuries.
Someone will have to tell me why this is causing doctors to go to jail if the patient consented to treatment.
[/quote]
Because a patients body is not owned by the patient.
This is government property and you better treat it as such.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
I watched an episode of 30 days last night that covered this very topic. The show ( Shows on FX ) is created and hosted by the guy from Supersize Me. It’s the 2nd episode from the 1st season and available on netflix streaming.
Anyway, they took a 34 y/o chubby average Joe and put him on growth hormone and testosterone for a month while under the care of an HRT specialist and and general doctor. The showed his progress and by the 3rd week they blamed liver issues, roid rage, and a sperm count that went from 80 million live to 300 dead all on the treatment. I can’t explain the amount of bias in words here, you really have to see the episode. Unfortunately FX doesn’t have the 1st season but if any of you guys have a netflix account, check it out. [/quote]
I saw this a long time ago and it drove me nuts. The couple was also very annoying. I hated everything about this particular show. I wanted to reach through the tube and strangle them all. It was over the top, tons of misinformation, and way too much drama. I hated it.
[/quote]
Agreed. I saw it too. That show is what made me not want to see anything else from him. The guy’s wife on that show was extremely irritating. I can see why guys are losing their testicular fortitude lately if they are hooking up with closed minded people like that for the rest of their lives.
[/quote]
No.
If you marry someone like that you had no balls to begin with.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
I watched an episode of 30 days last night that covered this very topic. The show ( Shows on FX ) is created and hosted by the guy from Supersize Me. It’s the 2nd episode from the 1st season and available on netflix streaming.
Anyway, they took a 34 y/o chubby average Joe and put him on growth hormone and testosterone for a month while under the care of an HRT specialist and and general doctor. The showed his progress and by the 3rd week they blamed liver issues, roid rage, and a sperm count that went from 80 million live to 300 dead all on the treatment. I can’t explain the amount of bias in words here, you really have to see the episode. Unfortunately FX doesn’t have the 1st season but if any of you guys have a netflix account, check it out. [/quote]
I saw this a long time ago and it drove me nuts. The couple was also very annoying. I hated everything about this particular show. I wanted to reach through the tube and strangle them all. It was over the top, tons of misinformation, and way too much drama. I hated it.
[/quote]
Agreed. I saw it too. That show is what made me not want to see anything else from him. The guy’s wife on that show was extremely irritating. I can see why guys are losing their testicular fortitude lately if they are hooking up with closed minded people like that for the rest of their lives.
[/quote]
No.
If you marry someone like that you had no balls to begin with.
[/quote]
X2
[quote]orion wrote:
If you marry someone like that you had no balls to begin with.
[/quote]
Yeah, that whole dynamic between the couple was pretty bad. I’d never let my woman embarrass me like that in public. She treated him like a little kid. Fuckin annoying to watch.