[quote]In a study of more than 3,600 Australian men age 70 and older, researchers found that those with lower-than-average testosterone levels were more likely to be frail or to develop frailty over the next several years.
The findings, published in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, add to evidence connecting testosterone loss to health problems in older men. But the question of what, if anything, to do about it remains open.[/quote]
Yes, science has once again forged a brave new road into uncharted territory. The question is indeed, " what do we do about it?!"…because God forbid some frail old men get testosterone on a regular basis seeing as how hypo-gonadism is usually treated this way.
Why the fear of treatment?
Study Finds No Causal Link Between Testosterone Replacement, Prostate Cancer Or Cardiac Disease
[quote]The comprehensive review of 72 studies, addresses the current controversy about testosterone replacement therapy and its potential health risks to men.
“We reviewed decades of research and found no compelling evidence that testosterone replacement therapy increases the incidence of prostate cancer or cardiovascular disease,” said Abraham Morgentaler, MD, a urologist at BIDMC and associate clinical professor at Harvard Medical School. “Although it would be helpful to have data from long-term, large-scale studies, it must also be recognized that there already exists a substantial body of research on the effects of testosterone in men.” [/quote]
Its cause testosterone is abused. And because of the abuse of testosterone its been demonized in the public’s mind. Also its a banned sports substance because of this abuse. Because sports are more important then health concerns. That is how you keep people from abusing it and cheating in sports.
All hail sports … all hail not helping people that need medical treatment. All hail lieing and spreading misinformation!!!
My uncle is on Testosterone Replacement, he’s an ex bodybuilder living in Orange County. When I asked him how he managed to get testosterone replacement therapy he stated that living in Orange County helps and going to the doctor most rich people do helps. I guess his doctor also does testosterone replacement for several celebrities. Point being, if you have enough money and live in an area where looks and status are paramount then your chances of getting testosteron replacement is pretty good. Anywhere else and your screwed.
It amazes me that both the general public and scientific community accept injecting botox (a relative of botulism) into a persons lips, implanting a silicone bag in a females chest to mimick larger breasts, or using a vacuum to suck the fat out of a lazy fat persons body (knowing damn well they’ll gain it back). These are all OK. But giving and adult male a hormone that they are deficient in…well that’s just crazy. Why the fuck are people so afraid of this?
As long as medical schools continue to educate students using the current Western Medicine curriculum, nothing will change in the next 20 years. These types of studies are designed to look at narrow outcomes, and conclusions are reached without taking any other individual health or lifestyle factors into consideration. Integrative and Functional medicine (like the anti-aging field, medical biomechanics and kinesiology) is still considered “progressive philosophy” and is frowned on by traditionalists.
Plus, fear of litigation, with the Feds coming down hard puts a stank on preventive prescription of a Schedule III Controlled substance.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
It amazes me that both the general public and scientific community accept injecting botox (a relative of botulism) into a persons lips, implanting a silicone bag in a females chest to mimick larger breasts, or using a vacuum to suck the fat out of a lazy fat persons body (knowing damn well they’ll gain it back). These are all OK. But giving and adult male a hormone that they are deficient in…well that’s just crazy. Why the fuck are people so afraid of this? [/quote]
Isn’t the problem here that the “normal values” of T-levels are pretty low and have a high range difference. So unless a Doctor is an advocate for TRT, or like the poster above said, in a rich area, getting prescribed TRT seems to be pretty hard. I would assume many people going for TRT are in the “normal” values of T-levels. And again, I am just going to play devils advocate and post this excerpt from Sanjay Gupta to have some cool discussions.
â?? He explains, for example, that while levels of growth hormone declines with age, it has not been proven to be beneficial to try and maintain young personâ??s levels and that trials are clearly showing:
negative side effects in the form of increased risk for cancer, cardiovascular disease and behavior changes…[and] that lower growth-hormone levels are an indicator of health. Research findings indicate that mice that overproduce growth hormones live only a short time, suggesting that growth-hormone deficiency itself does not cause accelerated aging, but that the opposite may be true. The risk/benefit ratios for testosterone replacement and growth hormone treatment have not been established in older persons, and trials of DHEA have failed to show significant clinical benefits in normal aging…It therefore pays to be cautious until adequate clinical trials have been completed and analyzed.
What I don’t get is why are women encouraged to have hormone replacement/supplementation, basically from the time we are old enough to make a baby until menopause and beyond, and it’s so taboo for a man to get the very substance that makes him male. It’s like the dangers of female cancers and health issues that may be caused by loading our bodies with excess estrogen for years are no big deal compared with the evils of test.
If it were simple ignorance, it wouldn’t be so bad. But there’s an ingrained fear of testosterone out there. Like it’s going to turn these old men into violent criminals.
I remember when I was little my grandma was put on steroids to help her eyes. For whatever reason, there was a sort of negative “get off that asap” reaction in the family, even I had that reaction (I was like eight at the time), and am not really sure where it came from.
It feels like we’ve (the broader we) been socially conditioned to be accepting of pro-feminine augmentation (no one bats an eye when women take one of the many forms of estrogen, or estrogen derivatives), but the perceived masculine characteristics that might emerge from a testosterone boost are scary.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
It amazes me that both the general public and scientific community accept injecting botox (a relative of botulism) into a persons lips, implanting a silicone bag in a females chest to mimick larger breasts, or using a vacuum to suck the fat out of a lazy fat persons body (knowing damn well they’ll gain it back). These are all OK. But giving and adult male a hormone that they are deficient in…well that’s just crazy. Why the fuck are people so afraid of this? [/quote]
Isn’t the problem here that the “normal values” of T-levels are pretty low and have a high range difference. So unless a Doctor is an advocate for TRT, or like the poster above said, in a rich area, getting prescribed TRT seems to be pretty hard. I would assume many people going for TRT are in the “normal” values of T-levels. And again, I am just going to play devils advocate and post this excerpt from Sanjay Gupta to have some cool discussions.
â?? He explains, for example, that while levels of growth hormone declines with age, it has not been proven to be beneficial to try and maintain young personâ??s levels and that trials are clearly showing:
negative side effects in the form of increased risk for cancer, cardiovascular disease and behavior changes…[and] that lower growth-hormone levels are an indicator of health. Research findings indicate that mice that overproduce growth hormones live only a short time, suggesting that growth-hormone deficiency itself does not cause accelerated aging, but that the opposite may be true. The risk/benefit ratios for testosterone replacement and growth hormone treatment have not been established in older persons, and trials of DHEA have failed to show significant clinical benefits in normal aging…It therefore pays to be cautious until adequate clinical trials have been completed and analyzed.[/quote]
And what about the people like me. Who are on the low low end of testosterone levels. I just squeek by the normal range(by one or 2 points). So my Dr refuses to treat me. Giving me the pass the buck routine to endo’s and the endo says your just fine.
I have been holding on for 2 years now waiting for my dr to finally do something about it.
All of this can be avoided if there was not so many people like you saying this could be the wrong thing to do.
[quote]dianab wrote:
What I don’t get is why are women encouraged to have hormone replacement/supplementation, basically from the time we are old enough to make a baby until menopause and beyond, and it’s so taboo for a man to get the very substance that makes him male. It’s like the dangers of female cancers and health issues that may be caused by loading our bodies with excess estrogen for years are no big deal compared with the evils of test.
[/quote]
negative side effects in the form of increased risk for cancer, cardiovascular disease and behavior changes…[and] that lower growth-hormone levels are an indicator of health. Research findings indicate that mice that overproduce growth hormones live only a short time, suggesting that growth-hormone deficiency itself does not cause accelerated aging, but that the opposite may be true. The risk/benefit ratios for testosterone replacement and growth hormone treatment have not been established in older persons, and trials of DHEA have failed to show significant clinical benefits in normal aging…It therefore pays to be cautious until adequate clinical trials have been completed and analyzed.[/quote]
Yet many of the people on HRT report feeling better and younger. How about the risks with birth control pills in females? How about the surgical risks involved with breast implants? Even when they had cases of them leaking in the past, the procedure was still available to whoever wanted it. These are all somehow OK. HRT, evil.
negative side effects in the form of increased risk for cancer, cardiovascular disease and behavior changes…[and] that lower growth-hormone levels are an indicator of health. Research findings indicate that mice that overproduce growth hormones live only a short time, suggesting that growth-hormone deficiency itself does not cause accelerated aging, but that the opposite may be true. The risk/benefit ratios for testosterone replacement and growth hormone treatment have not been established in older persons, and trials of DHEA have failed to show significant clinical benefits in normal aging…It therefore pays to be cautious until adequate clinical trials have been completed and analyzed.[/quote]
Yet many of the people on HRT report feeling better and younger. How about the risks with birth control pills in females? How about the surgical risks involved with breast implants? Even when they had cases of them leaking in the past, the procedure was still available to whoever wanted it. These are all somehow OK. HRT, evil.[/quote]
Hey, don’t forget that if you’re a women with psychosis, and want to pretend to be a man, you can go to get testosterone on demand as well.
If it were simple ignorance, it wouldn’t be so bad. But there’s an ingrained fear of testosterone out there. Like it’s going to turn these old men into violent criminals.
I remember when I was little my grandma was put on steroids to help her eyes. For whatever reason, there was a sort of negative “get off that asap” reaction in the family, even I had that reaction (I was like eight at the time), and am not really sure where it came from.
It feels like we’ve (the broader we) been socially conditioned to be accepting of pro-feminine augmentation (no one bats an eye when women take one of the many forms of estrogen, or estrogen derivatives), but the perceived masculine characteristics that might emerge from a testosterone boost are scary.[/quote]
I also think it has a lot to do with what people view as “recreational” drugs. For example Testosterone supplementation is seen as a DRUG with the means of getting big muscle and exchanging athletic abilities.
Just like any other “recreational” drug, Test is not view as something necessary for someones good health but instead it’s viewed as something people use because they WANT and not necessarily NEED.
I noticed that the common public is ignorant when it comes to drugs. They accept all the garbage the mass media and government feeds them. Just try telling a common citizen that certain drugs should be legalize and see how they’ll look at you.
negative side effects in the form of increased risk for cancer, cardiovascular disease and behavior changes…[and] that lower growth-hormone levels are an indicator of health. Research findings indicate that mice that overproduce growth hormones live only a short time, suggesting that growth-hormone deficiency itself does not cause accelerated aging, but that the opposite may be true. The risk/benefit ratios for testosterone replacement and growth hormone treatment have not been established in older persons, and trials of DHEA have failed to show significant clinical benefits in normal aging…It therefore pays to be cautious until adequate clinical trials have been completed and analyzed.[/quote]
Yet many of the people on HRT report feeling better and younger. How about the risks with birth control pills in females? How about the surgical risks involved with breast implants? Even when they had cases of them leaking in the past, the procedure was still available to whoever wanted it. These are all somehow OK. HRT, evil.[/quote]
Hey, don’t forget that if you’re a women with psychosis, and want to pretend to be a man, you can go to get testosterone on demand as well.[/quote]
I’m going to pretend to be one of those, just one… slightly farther along in the process…
[quote]dianab wrote:
What I don’t get is why are women encouraged to have hormone replacement/supplementation, basically from the time we are old enough to make a baby until menopause and beyond, and it’s so taboo for a man to get the very substance that makes him male. It’s like the dangers of female cancers and health issues that may be caused by loading our bodies with excess estrogen for years are no big deal compared with the evils of test.
[/quote]
My fiancee (who has been taking oral estrogen from an early age for her skin) tried to lecture me once on how she would hate me if I ever started taking testosterone. I made sure she never had the nerve to bring it up again.
[quote]dianab wrote:
What I don’t get is why are women encouraged to have hormone replacement/supplementation, basically from the time we are old enough to make a baby until menopause and beyond, and it’s so taboo for a man to get the very substance that makes him male. It’s like the dangers of female cancers and health issues that may be caused by loading our bodies with excess estrogen for years are no big deal compared with the evils of test.
[/quote]
My fiancee (who has been taking oral estrogen from an early age for her skin) tried to lecture me once on how she would hate me if I ever started taking testosterone. I made sure she never had the nerve to bring it up again.[/quote]
Did she ever explain here reasoning there?
I’ve actually run into this a lot, but I never have them “trapped”, so the conversation usually comes to a close before they have to justify their reasoning.
Hey, don’t forget that if you’re a women with psychosis, and want to pretend to be a man, you can go to get testosterone on demand as well.[/quote]
I remember flipping through the channels a while ago and when I stopped on MTV - there was a true life on about transgenders and this chick who wants to become a man pulls out a bottle of cyp and injects it right on camera. It still pisses me off that this is a medically allowed use.
[quote]dianab wrote:
What I don’t get is why are women encouraged to have hormone replacement/supplementation, basically from the time we are old enough to make a baby until menopause and beyond, and it’s so taboo for a man to get the very substance that makes him male. It’s like the dangers of female cancers and health issues that may be caused by loading our bodies with excess estrogen for years are no big deal compared with the evils of test.
[/quote]
My fiancee (who has been taking oral estrogen from an early age for her skin) tried to lecture me once on how she would hate me if I ever started taking testosterone. I made sure she never had the nerve to bring it up again.[/quote]
I am very interested in what her reasoning was. I am also wondering if she would change her mind if this affected your sex life.
People who blindly follow unsubstantiated media bother me. I tend to avoid them.
We have a country filled with BPA/estrogenic/moob inducing environmental factors turning us into cross-gendered expressions of what a man is supposed to be yet we have a society that has somehow managed to turn everything that used to be considered “masculine” into a negative.
What is the final outcome of a mentality like that if we think ahead 50 years?