Test/Primo/Mast P90X and Doggcrapp Training!

[quote]t-minotaur wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Oh and you definitely dont have enough mass to get super lean. Simply dont have the genetics for that. Some people can be extremely lean at low LBM levels. They tend to have great metabolisms. You dont have that, based on your pictures. You also have zero abdominal hypertrophy, it will be difficult to achieve the look youre after without that.

Cutting at this point is a mistake unless you dont mind winding up at 155lbs with a CHANCE of having abs. (if you are in fact 170lbs) [/quote]

You’re right I do not have the metabolism to be lean at low lean body mass levels. I have no abdominal hypertrophy either (that I can see). I thought you had to be at single digit body fat to see abs? I cant seem to get below 12-13% bodyfat no matter what I try.

So are you saying I need to bulk up and then shred down? I feel like thats what I did when I did the EQ cycle followed by the V-Diet.

I do not want to gain any more fat, period. I am eating very clean at about 2500/cal day with 300g protien, 150g carbs and 50g fat. I know I am capable of eating a lot more. It is extremely hard for me to eat this little. Whenever I eat more, I tend to put on pounds. Pounds of fat!

I could easily eat about 3500/cal a day with no problem. I did that when I was on the Eq cycle and ended up gaining a few pounds of fat, but also a lot of muscle.

I figured if I did a Test/Primo cycle and ate just enough to fuel the house, I should gain lean muscle with no fat. Maybe even lose a little fat.

So, what are your suggestions to attain about 5-10 lbs more muscle and 5-10 lbs less fat? That is my long term goal. I am extremely disciplined and can accomplish any diet and training regimine I put my mind to. I guess no one has put me on the right course thus far.[/quote]

No one is telling you to gain fat.

Do more cardio while gaining weight. 4 days of 40 minutes of AM fasted cardio works very well for people trying to gain weight who also have a hard time keeping the fat off.

I have been questioning myself for a few months now when about when it is time to take my training to the next level by using gear. Time and time again I realize that I am making great progress by lifting hard and eating clean surplus calories. Its really not rocket science, I’m your height and have about 60lb’s on you. Go back to the basics and stop over complicating everything.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Dude. Those stats would be fine for a relatively new lifter. The fact is that youre about to do your FIFTH cycle. Those are horrendous stats for someone with 4 cycles done.

And you say you workd hard to get to 12% bodyfat? Is that a joke.

You simply have no idea what it takes to diet properly. Thats the fact of the matter. Take it as an insult if you want, it isnt one though. Its just how it is.

You have 141 pounds of LBM on a 5’9 frame. AFTER FOUR CYCLES.

If you were a first timer coming here to post people would be 1. Laughing at you. 2. Telling you to gain 30 more pounds.

The fact that you arent a first timer is just sad.

If youre not going to be honest with yourself that’s fine. No one here is going to lose sleep. But you also shouldnt be surprised if no one takes you seriously. [/quote]

Ok, I can see why you think that after four cycles, I should look bigger.

Lets try to clarify a few things.

In high school, before I started working out, I was skinny, no muscle and weighed about 150 lbs. I had a lot of fat around the usual places (midsection, lower back, love handles). Probably somewhere 16 - 18 % body fat. When I went to boarding school, I ate like a horse, worked out a lot and did a lot of outdoor activities. I gained 30 lbs, but I was probably up to 20% or more body fat. I thought I was Mr. Swol, but I was really just fat and strong.

Slowly over time, being a newbee, I was able to get down to about 15% body fat, but I was not really trying to lose body fat. My goal was always building muscle in early college. I never cared about losing fat. Until about two years ago when things got real interesting.

Now, back to the present. Fist, pictures can be decieving. I definitely look bigger than what is in the picture because that is me after the V-Diet with all my muscle glycogen drained. I am 7 lbs. heavier than in the picture with the same body fat.

Second, 3 of the steroid cycles I did were very light and one was done incorrectly.

First cycle was tren only for 5 weeks. 2nd cycle was tren and winstrol, but I was on a keto diet. You should only expect to gain a few lbs of lean mass while on a tren only cycle, but get very dense of course.

Third cycle was with test and was done incorrectly for 5 weeks. 4th cycle was EQ only, again a very light that should have been combined with test for results that could have been heavily noticable.

Moving on, I’ve also had some trouble keeping the gains after the cycles (like many of us do) because I did improper PCT and went catabolic. That happened after the test cycle while I was trying to rid the gyno.

In addition, after the first cycle, I tried 2 keto diets, the first was off juice and the second was on tren/winstrol. I was still unable to get below 13% body fat. Plus, I was miserable. My body does not handle carbs well. When I eat carbs, they all go to fat. When I don’t eat carbs, I am starving all the time. And the more carbs I eat the hungrier I get (obviously cause my blood sugar is spiked). When people say keto diets are satisfying because all the protein makes you feel full, that does not work for me in any fashion.

I also did the bonehead mistake of doing a 500cal/day diet for three weeks because I was so freakin determined to lost all body fat. I did lose body fat, but I also ate some muscle up in week 3. This almost put me back to square 1. All that hard work was wasted by a dieting mistake. Fuck.

I know that diet was a mistake. I was basically trying all kinds of crazy diets and got fed up. I am know in school studying dietetics. I know many diets and how they work. I know the processes in the human body and how they interact. I also know that every matabolism is different.

My metabolism is still a mystery to me. It seems like I build muscle rather easily like a mesomorph, however I also store fat at the same rate like an endomorph. I by no means look like an endomporph because my bone structure is rather small like an ectomorph’s. So, I would say that I was 50% meso, 40% endo, 10% ecto. Or something like that. Who the hell knows.

I feel like I’ve tried everything. I log every meal I eat in my iphone. I keep daily logs. To be more specific, here’s every diet I’ve tried:

low-carb diet
ketogenic diet
modified ketogenic diet
500cal/day diet
carb-cycling diet
Velocity Diet
P90X Diet (2400cal 300g protein, 150g-180g carb, 55g fat)
bulking diet (3200-3500cal 300-350g protein, 250-300g carb, 75g-100g fat)

Technically, I havent tried the anabolic diet. That was next on the roster.

Now, please feel free to design some sort of bad ass diet plan that will give me the results I want. And I’ll follow it to the T and I bet you $100 bucks if its a bulking diet I’ll gain fat and that if its a shredding diet I won’t get below 10% body fat. But I would love for your expert opinion as you seem to know so much more than me.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
No one is telling you to gain fat.

Do more cardio while gaining weight. 4 days of 40 minutes of AM fasted cardio works very well for people trying to gain weight who also have a hard time keeping the fat off.
[/quote]

Yes, I used to think AM cardio was best, but actually its fasted treadmill walking. I have incorporated this into my workouts since I started the V-Diet in January.

[quote]AddictedtoIron wrote:
I have been questioning myself for a few months now when about when it is time to take my training to the next level by using gear. Time and time again I realize that I am making great progress by lifting hard and eating clean surplus calories. Its really not rocket science, I’m your height and have about 60lb’s on you. Go back to the basics and stop over complicating everything.[/quote]

60 lbs? Dude, you must be huge. AND your metabolism must be definitely different than mine. What is your diet like?

I figure a clean surplus calories with heavy lifting and fasted treadmill walking is the best idea for me. What is your workout split like?

[quote]t-minotaur wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Dude. Those stats would be fine for a relatively new lifter. The fact is that youre about to do your FIFTH cycle. Those are horrendous stats for someone with 4 cycles done.

And you say you workd hard to get to 12% bodyfat? Is that a joke.

You simply have no idea what it takes to diet properly. Thats the fact of the matter. Take it as an insult if you want, it isnt one though. Its just how it is.

You have 141 pounds of LBM on a 5’9 frame. AFTER FOUR CYCLES.

If you were a first timer coming here to post people would be 1. Laughing at you. 2. Telling you to gain 30 more pounds.

The fact that you arent a first timer is just sad.

If youre not going to be honest with yourself that’s fine. No one here is going to lose sleep. But you also shouldnt be surprised if no one takes you seriously. [/quote]

Ok, I can see why you think that after four cycles, I should look bigger.

Lets try to clarify a few things.

In high school, before I started working out, I was skinny, no muscle and weighed about 150 lbs. I had a lot of fat around the usual places (midsection, lower back, love handles). Probably somewhere 16 - 18 % body fat. When I went to boarding school, I ate like a horse, worked out a lot and did a lot of outdoor activities. I gained 30 lbs, but I was probably up to 20% or more body fat. I thought I was Mr. Swol, but I was really just fat and strong.

Slowly over time, being a newbee, I was able to get down to about 15% body fat, but I was not really trying to lose body fat. My goal was always building muscle in early college. I never cared about losing fat. Until about two years ago when things got real interesting.

Now, back to the present. Fist, pictures can be decieving. I definitely look bigger than what is in the picture because that is me after the V-Diet with all my muscle glycogen drained. I am 7 lbs. heavier than in the picture with the same body fat.

Second, 3 of the steroid cycles I did were very light and one was done incorrectly.

First cycle was tren only for 5 weeks. 2nd cycle was tren and winstrol, but I was on a keto diet. You should only expect to gain a few lbs of lean mass while on a tren only cycle, but get very dense of course.

Third cycle was with test and was done incorrectly for 5 weeks. 4th cycle was EQ only, again a very light that should have been combined with test for results that could have been heavily noticable.

Moving on, I’ve also had some trouble keeping the gains after the cycles (like many of us do) because I did improper PCT and went catabolic. That happened after the test cycle while I was trying to rid the gyno.

In addition, after the first cycle, I tried 2 keto diets, the first was off juice and the second was on tren/winstrol. I was still unable to get below 13% body fat. Plus, I was miserable. My body does not handle carbs well. When I eat carbs, they all go to fat. When I don’t eat carbs, I am starving all the time. And the more carbs I eat the hungrier I get (obviously cause my blood sugar is spiked). When people say keto diets are satisfying because all the protein makes you feel full, that does not work for me in any fashion.

I also did the bonehead mistake of doing a 500cal/day diet for three weeks because I was so freakin determined to lost all body fat. I did lose body fat, but I also ate some muscle up in week 3. This almost put me back to square 1. All that hard work was wasted by a dieting mistake. Fuck.

I know that diet was a mistake. I was basically trying all kinds of crazy diets and got fed up. I am know in school studying dietetics. I know many diets and how they work. I know the processes in the human body and how they interact. I also know that every matabolism is different.

My metabolism is still a mystery to me. It seems like I build muscle rather easily like a mesomorph, however I also store fat at the same rate like an endomorph. I by no means look like an endomporph because my bone structure is rather small like an ectomorph’s. So, I would say that I was 50% meso, 40% endo, 10% ecto. Or something like that. Who the hell knows.

I feel like I’ve tried everything. I log every meal I eat in my iphone. I keep daily logs. To be more specific, here’s every diet I’ve tried:

low-carb diet
ketogenic diet
modified ketogenic diet
500cal/day diet
carb-cycling diet
Velocity Diet
P90X Diet (2400cal 300g protein, 150g-180g carb, 55g fat)
bulking diet (3200-3500cal 300-350g protein, 250-300g carb, 75g-100g fat)

Technically, I havent tried the anabolic diet. That was next on the roster.

Now, please feel free to design some sort of bad ass diet plan that will give me the results I want. And I’ll follow it to the T and I bet you $100 bucks if its a bulking diet I’ll gain fat and that if its a shredding diet I won’t get below 10% body fat. But I would love for your expert opinion as you seem to know so much more than me.[/quote]

Steroids work well when people know EXACTLY how their body responds to certain nutrition and training approaches. They work very well in fact.

Youve just admitted that your metabolism is still a mystery (aka “I have no idea what sort of eating works for me). But you STILL think that steroids are the answer. Youre trying to put a bandaid on a 10” knife wound.

That whole post is just excuse after excuse of why youre fucking up. Stop blaming the name brand diets your choosing and start using your head to figure out what actually works.

And one last thing. When I decide to do a cycle (which is pretty rare these days) I set a goal for myself. I set a goal for 3 months post PCT as well. If something happens where I lose a significant amount of the cycle weight in the months after PCT I make it my business to get very close to where I was during the cycle before doing another one. Obviously it may not be as possible to be as lean and as muscular to the same exact degree but if a life situation gets in te way and I lose 10lbs I absolutely will not go on a new cycle until 8 of those are regained.

Spinning your wheels without drugs is a huge waste of time. Spinning your wheels with drugs is a waste of time AND detrimental to your health.

[quote]t-minotaur wrote:

[quote]AddictedtoIron wrote:
I have been questioning myself for a few months now when about when it is time to take my training to the next level by using gear. Time and time again I realize that I am making great progress by lifting hard and eating clean surplus calories. Its really not rocket science, I’m your height and have about 60lb’s on you. Go back to the basics and stop over complicating everything.[/quote]

60 lbs? Dude, you must be huge. AND your metabolism must be definitely different than mine. What is your diet like?

I figure a clean surplus calories with heavy lifting and fasted treadmill walking is the best idea for me. What is your workout split like?[/quote]

I usually hit about 4500-5000 calories a day, it comes from eggs, beef, chicken, oatmeal, potatoes, green vegetables. My metabolism isn’t great for the record either, I cant eat dirty without putting on fat.

I am currently using a 5 day split, compound movements followed by smaller movements for targeting specific muscles. Nothing new or groundbreaking.

Listen to Bonez. After four cycles and the results you have thus far, there something extremely wrong with your diet or training or both. My first cycle was a 6 week test and dbol. I lifted my ass off, ate a lot & right for the most part, and gained about 30 lbs. I was about your size when I did the cycle.

I don’t think anyone in here is trying to discourage you, but it just seems like you’re going about it the wrong way. Adding what AddictedtoIron said, don’t over complicate your supplement regimen, but focus on what you eat and when you eat. Growth is all about timing. One more thing, train like a fucking man for christ’s sake! No offense, but if you really did do four cycles and lifted heavy, you would have way more gains than your pictures show. It leads me to believe that you’re not training hard enough or you have been seriously ripped off when it comes to the substance of your cycles.

Good luck. I hope you get more gains than you have on the last four cycles you’ve been on.

[quote]t-minotaur wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Dude. Those stats would be fine for a relatively new lifter. The fact is that youre about to do your FIFTH cycle. Those are horrendous stats for someone with 4 cycles done.

And you say you workd hard to get to 12% bodyfat? Is that a joke.

You simply have no idea what it takes to diet properly. Thats the fact of the matter. Take it as an insult if you want, it isnt one though. Its just how it is.

You have 141 pounds of LBM on a 5’9 frame. AFTER FOUR CYCLES.

If you were a first timer coming here to post people would be 1. Laughing at you. 2. Telling you to gain 30 more pounds.

The fact that you arent a first timer is just sad.

If youre not going to be honest with yourself that’s fine. No one here is going to lose sleep. But you also shouldnt be surprised if no one takes you seriously. [/quote]

Ok, I can see why you think that after four cycles, I should look bigger.

Lets try to clarify a few things.

In high school, before I started working out, I was skinny, no muscle and weighed about 150 lbs. I had a lot of fat around the usual places (midsection, lower back, love handles). Probably somewhere 16 - 18 % body fat. When I went to boarding school, I ate like a horse, worked out a lot and did a lot of outdoor activities. I gained 30 lbs, but I was probably up to 20% or more body fat. I thought I was Mr. Swol, but I was really just fat and strong.

Slowly over time, being a newbee, I was able to get down to about 15% body fat, but I was not really trying to lose body fat. My goal was always building muscle in early college. I never cared about losing fat. Until about two years ago when things got real interesting.

Now, back to the present. Fist, pictures can be decieving. I definitely look bigger than what is in the picture because that is me after the V-Diet with all my muscle glycogen drained. I am 7 lbs. heavier than in the picture with the same body fat.

Second, 3 of the steroid cycles I did were very light and one was done incorrectly.

First cycle was tren only for 5 weeks. 2nd cycle was tren and winstrol, but I was on a keto diet. You should only expect to gain a few lbs of lean mass while on a tren only cycle, but get very dense of course.

Third cycle was with test and was done incorrectly for 5 weeks. 4th cycle was EQ only, again a very light that should have been combined with test for results that could have been heavily noticable.

Moving on, I’ve also had some trouble keeping the gains after the cycles (like many of us do) because I did improper PCT and went catabolic. That happened after the test cycle while I was trying to rid the gyno.

In addition, after the first cycle, I tried 2 keto diets, the first was off juice and the second was on tren/winstrol. I was still unable to get below 13% body fat. Plus, I was miserable. My body does not handle carbs well. When I eat carbs, they all go to fat. When I don’t eat carbs, I am starving all the time. And the more carbs I eat the hungrier I get (obviously cause my blood sugar is spiked). When people say keto diets are satisfying because all the protein makes you feel full, that does not work for me in any fashion.

I also did the bonehead mistake of doing a 500cal/day diet for three weeks because I was so freakin determined to lost all body fat. I did lose body fat, but I also ate some muscle up in week 3. This almost put me back to square 1. All that hard work was wasted by a dieting mistake. Fuck.

I know that diet was a mistake. I was basically trying all kinds of crazy diets and got fed up. I am know in school studying dietetics. I know many diets and how they work. I know the processes in the human body and how they interact. I also know that every matabolism is different.

My metabolism is still a mystery to me. It seems like I build muscle rather easily like a mesomorph, however I also store fat at the same rate like an endomorph. I by no means look like an endomporph because my bone structure is rather small like an ectomorph’s. So, I would say that I was 50% meso, 40% endo, 10% ecto. Or something like that. Who the hell knows.

I feel like I’ve tried everything. I log every meal I eat in my iphone. I keep daily logs. To be more specific, here’s every diet I’ve tried:

low-carb diet
ketogenic diet
modified ketogenic diet
500cal/day diet
carb-cycling diet
Velocity Diet
P90X Diet (2400cal 300g protein, 150g-180g carb, 55g fat)
bulking diet (3200-3500cal 300-350g protein, 250-300g carb, 75g-100g fat)

Technically, I havent tried the anabolic diet. That was next on the roster.

Now, please feel free to design some sort of bad ass diet plan that will give me the results I want. And I’ll follow it to the T and I bet you $100 bucks if its a bulking diet I’ll gain fat and that if its a shredding diet I won’t get below 10% body fat. But I would love for your expert opinion as you seem to know so much more than me.[/quote]

All I see here are more reasons why you’re not experienced enough to be using steroids.