adrian: she’s bleeding from the eyes and mouth. That sounds very fucking peaceful.
Joe,
Have you ever been present when someone was dying like Terri Schiavo?
I have. We had to make the decision to not give food or water to my father-in-law when he was dying of terminal cancer.
It was a gutwrenching decision to make. If some religious or political group had come in and forced us to keep him on a bunch of fucking tubes, would that have been correct? No way.
It was peaceful, there was no pain or bleeding. I think that’s bullshit myself, having witnessed a similar death firsthand.
And no, there wasn’t a living will and he never even said what he wanted. It was our decision to make. Not yours or anyone elses.
You’re a bunch of pious hypocrites who in no way would want to live 15 days, let alone 15 years in Terri’s condition.
[quote]RoadWarrior wrote:
Whats really sad about this whole thing is,somewhere out there a very intelligent person is dying of cancer because welware, medicare et al, won’t pay for needed medicine or treatment. Instead they are (and have been) spending millions on someone who is brain-dead for political gain and the sale of news and television time.[/quote]
Yes, and there are childrens programs being funded as well…hold on one has nothing to do with the other now does it? Think!
[quote]chadman wrote:
Joe,
Have you ever been present when someone was dying like Terri Schiavo?
I have. We had to make the decision to not give food or water to my father-in-law when he was dying of terminal cancer.
It was a gutwrenching decision to make. If some religious or political group had come in and forced us to keep him on a bunch of fucking tubes, would that have been correct? No way.
It was peaceful, there was no pain or bleeding. I think that’s bullshit myself, having witnessed a similar death firsthand.
And no, there wasn’t a living will and he never even said what he wanted. It was our decision to make. Not yours or anyone elses.
You’re a bunch of pious hypocrites who in no way would want to live 15 days, let alone 15 years in Terri’s condition.[/quote]
I beg your pardon?
How am I a pious hypocrite?
I have a problem with a judge making a decision about a human life–when she’s done nothing wrong.
And, as a matter of fact, I spent a spring, summer and early fall one year watching my grandfather die–and in the end he hadn’t had any food or water for days. And there was nothing peaceful about it.
[quote]chadman wrote:
It was a gutwrenching decision to make. If some religious or political group had come in and forced us to keep him on a bunch of fucking tubes, would that have been correct? No way.
It was peaceful, there was no pain or bleeding. I think that’s bullshit myself, having witnessed a similar death firsthand.
And no, there wasn’t a living will and he never even said what he wanted. It was our decision to make. Not yours or anyone elses.
You’re a bunch of pious hypocrites who in no way would want to live 15 days, let alone 15 years in Terri’s condition.[/quote]
And by the way–she could eat and drink on her own. Mike, as the court recognized caregiver–is the one that’s made all the decisions about whether she does or not. That’s the only thing that was keeping her alive. No other hoses or tubes or machines.
And how the hell can you say what anyone else would want to do for 15 days or 15 years?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
RoadWarrior wrote:
Whats really sad about this whole thing is,somewhere out there a very intelligent person is dying of cancer because welware, medicare et al, won’t pay for needed medicine or treatment. Instead they are (and have been) spending millions on someone who is brain-dead for political gain and the sale of news and television time.
Yes, and there are childrens programs being funded as well…hold on one has nothing to do with the other now does it? Think!
[/quote]
ZEB, those people can’t think. Like my lib commie friend. Big fan of Ralp Nader. So I tell him that Nader has come out and said that they should err on the side of Terri’s (or any) life–and his response? “10 or 15 years ago Nader would have gotten the facts before he got involved.”
I mean…what is it with these people? Animal savagery at its worst.
[quote]chadman wrote:
It was peaceful, there was no pain or bleeding. I think that’s bullshit myself, having witnessed a similar death firsthand.
.[/quote]
btw, if it was so peaceful I imagine Mike Shiavo and his lawyers would want at least a couple of still pix out…you know, him sitting at her bedside, holding her hand while she peacefully and quietly goes to sleep.
Because they’ve ordered no cameras…that makes me wonder…
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
chadman wrote:
It was peaceful, there was no pain or bleeding. I think that’s bullshit myself, having witnessed a similar death firsthand.
.
btw, if it was so peaceful I imagine Mike Shiavo and his lawyers would want at least a couple of still pix out…you know, him sitting at her bedside, holding her hand while she peacefully and quietly goes to sleep.
Because they’ve ordered no cameras…that makes me wonder…
[/quote]
Wonder what?
Joe, again, there is no cerebral cortex in Terri’s head. How much more peaceful could a person be short of having a person with no head? A person with no cerebral cortex is not aware of their own existence. You keep not getting that Terri killed Terri 15 years ago. What’s left now is a body betrayed by it’s brain. Terri isn’t just brain dead, she’s brainless. Her legal guardian sat with her for 20 days, held her hand, stroked her hair, talked to her, and came to these conclusions combined with all the evidence and medical opinion, It’s strange that you keep coming to a different conclusion despite never having sat with Terri.
He also concluded that Terri would not have wanted to live in a situation like this. I don’t know how you can even begin to dispute this.
Terri, if for some reason your heart were to fail, leading to a lack of oxygen to your brain causing the part of your brain that makes you Terri, be Terri to turn to liquid, in essence to end your state of all awareness, feeling, emotion, but we could keep your body alive with a feeding tube forever, would you want us to keep the feeding tube in you? Nevermind the irony of a bulimic being kept alive via feeding tube, I think we all know what Terri would have said.
Joe,
I find it pious that you and others think you know more than the husband and countless doctors and judges who have sided with the husband, and that you find fault with everything that does not fall into lock-step with you opinion. The husband, the doctors, the judges…all are part of some conspiracy to kill Terri Schiavo for no reason…at least that’s what you seem to be saying.
Also, are you saying that you would be content to live life as a vegetable? Or let’s assume she does have the consciousness of an insect, would you be content living like that?
Regardless of how much her parents love her, I don’t think she should be kept alive merely to serve as a comfort to them.
Even if she can swallow, so what, you are still keeping alive a shell. Her soul or spirit, her personality left 15 years ago. She can’t think, reason, feel emotions, anything. She would not be being kept alive for her benefit, just for her family’s comfort, which in my mind should not outweigh her own dignity.
[quote]chadman wrote:
Joe,
I find it pious that you and others think you know more than the husband and countless doctors and judges who have sided with the husband, and that you find fault with everything that does not fall into lock-step with you opinion. The husband, the doctors, the judges…all are part of some conspiracy to kill Terri Schiavo for no reason…at least that’s what you seem to be saying.
Also, are you saying that you would be content to live life as a vegetable? Or let’s assume she does have the consciousness of an insect, would you be content living like that?
Regardless of how much her parents love her, I don’t think she should be kept alive merely to serve as a comfort to them.
Even if she can swallow, so what, you are still keeping alive a shell. Her soul or spirit, her personality left 15 years ago. She can’t think, reason, feel emotions, anything. She would not be being kept alive for her benefit, just for her family’s comfort, which in my mind should not outweigh her own dignity.[/quote]
Dude, what about the doctors and experts who don’t agree with it? What about the new findings?
And who the fuck put you in charge of deciding what contitutes life, soul, spirit or anything else? You sound like the pious person here.
[quote]100meters wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
chadman wrote:
It was peaceful, there was no pain or bleeding. I think that’s bullshit myself, having witnessed a similar death firsthand.
.
btw, if it was so peaceful I imagine Mike Shiavo and his lawyers would want at least a couple of still pix out…you know, him sitting at her bedside, holding her hand while she peacefully and quietly goes to sleep.
Because they’ve ordered no cameras…that makes me wonder…
Wonder what?
Joe, again, there is no cerebral cortex in Terri’s head. How much more peaceful could a person be short of having a person with no head? A person with no cerebral cortex is not aware of their own existence. You keep not getting that Terri killed Terri 15 years ago. What’s left now is a body betrayed by it’s brain. Terri isn’t just brain dead, she’s brainless. Her legal guardian sat with her for 20 days, held her hand, stroked her hair, talked to her, and came to these conclusions combined with all the evidence and medical opinion, It’s strange that you keep coming to a different conclusion despite never having sat with Terri.
He also concluded that Terri would not have wanted to live in a situation like this. I don’t know how you can even begin to dispute this.
Terri, if for some reason your heart were to fail, leading to a lack of oxygen to your brain causing the part of your brain that makes you Terri, be Terri to turn to liquid, in essence to end your state of all awareness, feeling, emotion, but we could keep your body alive with a feeding tube forever, would you want us to keep the feeding tube in you? Nevermind the irony of a bulimic being kept alive via feeding tube, I think we all know what Terri would have said.[/quote]
Reading most of your posts I have to conclude there’s no cerebral cortex in your head either.
I’ve been reading an awful lot about this case in the past ten days or so.
But I’m glad you’re the expert.
And the one that killed Terri was Mike.
He didn’t perfom cpr. When he did call the paramedics, they promptly called the cops. Why?
She was looking for a divorce.
There were ligature marks around her neck.
[quote]chadman wrote:
Joe,
I find it pious that you and others think you know more than the husband and countless doctors and judges who have sided with the husband, and that you find fault with everything that does not fall into lock-step with you opinion. The husband, the doctors, the judges…all are part of some conspiracy to kill Terri Schiavo for no reason…at least that’s what you seem to be saying.
[/quote]
So…you aren’t finding fault with everyone who’s not marching in lock step with the husband and the blind judge and you?
Come on, Bro, let’s be honest with ourselves and each other here…you can’t call me names based on something you’re doing yourself!
http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1111876487201.images-stalin.jpg
[quote]chadman wrote:
Joe,
Have you ever been present when someone was dying like Terri Schiavo?
I have. We had to make the decision to not give food or water to my father-in-law when he was dying of terminal cancer.
It was a gutwrenching decision to make. If some religious or political group had come in and forced us to keep him on a bunch of fucking tubes, would that have been correct? No way.
It was peaceful, there was no pain or bleeding. I think that’s bullshit myself, having witnessed a similar death firsthand.
And no, there wasn’t a living will and he never even said what he wanted. It was our decision to make. Not yours or anyone elses.
You’re a bunch of pious hypocrites who in no way would want to live 15 days, let alone 15 years in Terri’s condition.[/quote]
Pious hypocrites? you got it all wrong pal! I’m an atheist, that’s why I value life more because I know this is it. No heaven, no 50 virgins waiting for you in heaven (50 studs for the girls?). Life is precious and it should be defended at all costs. How the fuck do you know there won’t be a cure 5, 10, 15 years from now? Maybe the drs. (and the judge) at the trial screwed up and now want to cover their asses (they are probably asses anyway). Remember when there is life there is hope!
[quote]johnny quick wrote:
Pious hypocrites? you got it all wrong pal! I’m an atheist, that’s why I value life more because I know this is it. No heaven, no 50 virgins waiting for you in heaven (50 studs for the girls?). Life is precious and it should be defended at all costs. How the fuck do you know there won’t be a cure 5, 10, 15 years from now? Maybe the drs. (and the judge) at the trial screwed up and now want to cover their asses (they are probably asses anyway). Remember when there is life there is hope!
[/quote]
Funny enough, this judge does have some history of making some bad mistakes from the bench. One in particular got a woman killed.
And yet…what I don’t get is how the same judge can rule on an appeal against something he did. So if he grants the appeal, he’s admitting he made a mistake. Talk about a stacked deck.
You guys must be right. Michael really stangled her and has gotten away with it for 15 years. All or the judicial record is erroneous and Terri really does have a cerebral cortex and really is trying to communicate. She really does want to live like this. And you’re right, in 10 or 15 years, the Wizard of Oz will find a way to give Terri a new brain.
Atheist, Buddhist, Christian, whatever…I can’t believe any of them would want to “live” for 15 years+ in Terri’s condition. If she had a living will but her parents still wanted to keep her alive against her wishes, what would you think then?
[quote]chadman wrote:
Atheist, Buddhist, Christian, whatever…I can’t believe any of them would want to “live” for 15 years+ in Terri’s condition. If she had a living will but her parents still wanted to keep her alive against her wishes, what would you think then?[/quote]
That’s a red herring…and almost a straw man, dude.
Where’s the love…?
Besides, I asked you a question first.
I’m not going to change your mind, and I know for a fact you won’t change mine. I’ve presented the same arguments over and over…so why don’t we just agree that we disagree, shake hands and go back to our respective sandboxes?
If my wife were in Terri’s situation, and I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that she didn’t want to be a vegetable, I’d kill her. I wouldn’t hide behind the skirt of a pussy judge. And I goddamn sure wouldn’t want her to suffer. But this dicklick of a husband hasn’t got enough balls to do what he says Terri wants.
That’s the problem I have with this case. The mere fact that he hasn’t done a manly thing in the 15 years of this ordeal speaks volumes about the lack of character he posesses.
If that sorry motherfucker cashes in on a life insurance policy, we’ll know his true intentions.
hey RJ, don’t hold back!
I would like to know the truth.
The traditional “liberal” media makes it seem so cut and dried. The decision looks simple. Let her go.
The “right wing” media paints a picture with many more details. It sure seems like her “husband” has been holding back therapy for years.
After hearing the “right wing” media, it sure is a tougher case.
Is the “liberal” media withholding information or is the “right wing” media just lying?
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Besides, I asked you a question first.
I’m not going to change your mind, and I know for a fact you won’t change mine. I’ve presented the same arguments over and over…so why don’t we just agree that we disagree, shake hands and go back to our respective sandboxes?
[/quote]
I’ve got no problem agreeing to disagree. It really is a shitty situation. All I know is I definitely don’t want Congress or the President or a Governor making these kinds of decisions for us.