Terri Schiavo: More Grandstanding

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
201

[quote]Scott1010220 wrote:
I have a simple question.

If I walked into her hospital room, I picked up a chair, and I smashed her in the head and killed her, would I be charged with murder?

If so, then by extension, whoever removes her feeding tube should also be charged with murder.

I don’t want to hear any mumbo jumbo, it is either murder or it’s not.

At least if I smashed her it would be quick.[/quote]

Well the “Mumbo Jumbo” would be what you would call an “explanation” as to why and why not that is plausible. The example you set up is well kind of on the irrelevent side don’t you think?

That’s almost similar to me setting up a situation where if I said “If I try to commit suicide upon myself but I survive technically wouldn’t I be charged in the court of law…but wait don’t give me any mumbo jumbo just a yes or a no”. See it’s not all that terribly hard to come up with “examples” that really don’t placate any relevance in the situation if only by a thin strain of some non-crucial semblance.

202

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Sorry to bust your bubble on your 13th post at T-Nation! However, my reference, since it escaped you, was to the problem of Mr. Schiavo wanting to pull the plug on his wife. Hence: “Till death do us part.” I could also have quoted: “In sickness and in health.”

Got it?

[/quote]

Ok, seemingly how my lowly, brutish intellect, along with my lack of an incredible amount of posts; which render me totally ill-equiped to discuss a topic. I will suffice to partially misrepresenting your example of where you were quoting “Til death do us part”, while I don’t think that was main point I had with your post anyhow, it was the reaction you gave to Prof X.

I also feel using the one-liners such as “Til Death Do Us Part” and referencing from Michael Schiavo makes his standpoint and feelings seem a little too simplified. Other than opening her eyes and starring is she not dead? Is the person Terri not permanently gone, in essence hasn’t she already left him? I doubt he thinks of it as pulling the plug as much as he feels it is ending something that happen 15 years ago. It’s nearly impossible to put myself in that position, if the parents wanted to take care of her, I would probably move aside but knowing of any possible long-standing suffereing and such…who knows.

As far as your reference to my post count, ok I will take the jab, but really what is the correlation to the number of posts compared to the quality of a person or their opinion? As far as I know more posts could just mean more opportunities to spewl your vomit, LMAO.

203

E.C–you do raise a good point though…why doesn’t he just move aside and let her mother have her?
As to whether she’s dead already…no. The person she was is gone, yes, but she’s still alive.

204

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
E.C–you do raise a good point though…why doesn’t he just move aside and let her mother have her?
As to whether she’s dead already…no. The person she was is gone, yes, but she’s still alive.
[/quote]

Hey Joe Weider! I have come back far more versed and knowledgible, now with a ton of more posts! I just made 35 consecutive posts in the “I am 120 lbs and need to get cut” thread, and now my knowledge and genius has risen in direct comparison to my awesome post count! I am THOR here me ROAR! :slight_smile: With 2,000 more I shall rule this site with my unwielding “online wit”, straw maning, and E-thugging yo hoe’s!

Joe Weider, I see where you are coming from about, “why not let the family have the decision”, though there are great points on both sides and I am sure in not in an absolute manner but, in a “hopeful” manner that Michael Schiavo believes he is doing this for Terri’s benefit, but personally I think it if was my wife I would turn over control to the family. So yes, that is one of the issues in this larger argument that I do agree with, but as a whole I believe in my own opinion (and it is just that) that one side slightly outweighs another.

PS: I can be a bit satrical at times but I promise all of those T-nutters I am not a monster…BOO!

PSS: Cool, move over Eric Cressey I got your acronym, biotch! :slight_smile:

205

I’m with a few others here; the protesters should simply force their way through and feed her.

If you were convinced that a friend of yours was being held in a room and denied food, wouldn’t you force your way in at any cost? If these people genuinely believe it’s murder, then they should prove it and save this woman’s life. Pussies.

206

15 years ago she was starving herself by voluntarily inducing vomiting. Now, 15 years later she is going to die from starvation. Oh the irony!

This woman put herself in this condition. It is entirely her fault. It was her finger in her throat. She chose to stick it there because of the fucked up thoughts she was having. Now because of her actions she is the equivalent of a potted plant.

Feed her.

Don’t feed her.

Throw her from an overpass.

She wont know the difference. *No cortex = No conscience.

What a shame. She was a hottie. What a waste.

Before all you bitches get all fired up beacuse I said “Throw her from an overpass” I didn’t mean actually do it, but rather if you did she woudn’t even be aware if the event * .

207

http://www.reclaimamerica.org/

Greer Got Donation From Mike Schiavo’s Lawyer

The Center for Reclaiming America, an organization backed by the Rev. D. James Kennedy, reported that a serious conflict of interest may exist for the Florida state judge who is ruling on the Terri Schiavo case.

The report from the center follows:

Story Continues Below

As if the circumstances surrounding Terri Schiavo could not get any more suspicious, the Center for Reclaiming America has uncovered evidence that Pinellas-Pasco County Circuit Judge George W. Greer accepted a campaign contribution from the law firm of Michael Schiavo?s attorney only one day after "Terri?s Law" was declared unconstitutional by a Pinellas county court.

This appears to establish a clear conflict of interest between Judge Greer and the best interests of Terri Schiavo.

Judge Greer has been responsible for establishing “the facts” in the case of Terri Schiavo. Sadly, he has dismissed or ignored testimony from 33 physicians (15 neurologists) who are willing to testify that Terri is not in a persistent vegetative state and can improve, he has refused to allow the Florida Department of Children and Families to conduct a criminal investigation of Michael Schiavo, he has refused to honor a subpoena from the U.S. Congress, and he has blocked virtually all efforts from the Schindler family to save the life of their daughter.

According to public records available from the Florida Department of State: Division of Elections, Judge George W. Greer received a campaign contribution from the law firm of Felos & Felos during his re-election efforts in the spring of 2004.

Of course, no direct evidence suggests collusion between the two parties, but the timing of the campaign contribution is highly suspect.

On May 6, 2004, a Pinellas county court struck down legislation (“Terri’s Law”) passed by the Florida legislature and signed by Governor Jeb Bush, which was designed to halt a previous attempt to starve Terri Schiavo to death.

On May 7, 2004 ? only one day after the ruling ? Judge Greer received a campaign gift from the law firm of Michael Schiavo?s attorney.

This was not due to a fundraising effort, as this was the only contribution made to the Greer campaign fund on that particular day.

208

[quote]EmperialChina wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Sorry to bust your bubble on your 13th post at T-Nation! However, my reference, since it escaped you, was to the problem of Mr. Schiavo wanting to pull the plug on his wife. Hence: “Till death do us part.” I could also have quoted: “In sickness and in health.”

Got it?

Ok, seemingly how my lowly, brutish intellect, along with my lack of an incredible amount of posts; which render me totally ill-equiped to discuss a topic. I will suffice to partially misrepresenting your example of where you were quoting “Til death do us part”, while I don’t think that was main point I had with your post anyhow, it was the reaction you gave to Prof X.

I also feel using the one-liners such as “Til Death Do Us Part” and referencing from Michael Schiavo makes his standpoint and feelings seem a little too simplified. Other than opening her eyes and starring is she not dead? Is the person Terri not permanently gone, in essence hasn’t she already left him? I doubt he thinks of it as pulling the plug as much as he feels it is ending something that happen 15 years ago. It’s nearly impossible to put myself in that position, if the parents wanted to take care of her, I would probably move aside but knowing of any possible long-standing suffereing and such…who knows.

As far as your reference to my post count, ok I will take the jab, but really what is the correlation to the number of posts compared to the quality of a person or their opinion? As far as I know more posts could just mean more opportunities to spewl your vomit, LMAO.
[/quote]

I guess It’s not just the number of posts, it’s what you have been talking bout in those few posts. Overall you seem like yet another liberal wonder boy, so full of himself that there is really no room for conflicting opinion.

You want Shciavo dead, you rant about fat cyclists…I don’t know. The best body building site on the net and you seem sort of lost in here, but that’s your right I suppose. It just sort of makes me wonder why one such as you who feels himself so right, so gifted would waste his time around here,ha.

As far as the Schiavo case, when did it ever become “heroic” to starve your defenseless wife to death? Quite the c
ontrary seems rather cowardly to me. Then again I believe that life is a gift from God, so I would wager that we part company right from the start!

209

[quote]MDLP wrote:
15 years ago she was starving herself by voluntarily inducing vomiting. Now, 15 years later she is going to die from starvation. Oh the irony!

This woman put herself in this condition. It is entirely her fault. It was her finger in her throat. She chose to stick it there because of the fucked up thoughts she was having. Now because of her actions she is the equivalent of a potted plant.

Feed her.

Don’t feed her.

Throw her from an overpass.

She wont know the difference. *No cortex = No conscience.

What a shame. She was a hottie. What a waste.

Before all you bitches get all fired up beacuse I said “Throw her from an overpass” I didn’t mean actually do it, but rather if you did she woudn’t even be aware if the event * .[/quote]

The above doesn’t surprise me. We have fallen very far in a relatively short period of time!

210

Terri Bleeding From Eyes and Mouth

Contrary to predictions that Terri Schiavo’s starvation death would be painless and dignified, an eyewitness who visited her hospice room early Saturday morning reports that she is now bleeding from the eyes and mouth.

Fox News Channel’s “Fox & Friends” reports:

"Barbara Weller, who's is one of the attorneys for the Schindlers, says that the last time she checked in, not very many hours ago, Terri's eyes and tongue were bleeding now.

“Her eyes are sunken and her skin continues to flake off,” Weller added.

On Thursday Terri’s parents reported that their daughter now resembles “an Auschwitz victim.”

At the request of Michael Schiavo’s attorney, Judge George Greer has banned cameras and video equipment from her room, precluding the possibility that a photographic record of her deteriorating condition might be kept.

The eyewitness accounts stand in stark contrast to predictions from medical experts cited in numerous media reports who insisted that Terri’s starvation death would not be gruesome.

On Wednesday, for instance, the Los Angles Times reported:

“Doctors say that going without food and water in the last weeks of life is not traumatic, and that the body is equipped to adjust to such conditions.”

The paper quoted Dr. Perry G. Fine, vice president of medical affairs at the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization in Arlington, Va.

“What my patients have told me over the last 25 years is that when they stop eating and drinking, there’s nothing unpleasant about it – in fact, it can be quite blissful and euphoric.”

“It’s a very smooth, graceful and elegant way to go,” Dr. Fine added.

211

notice how at the bottom of the interview he says “we don’t know what terri wanted, this is what we want.”

LARRY KING: ?Right now to Dunedin, Florida. Michael Schiavo is there. He is Terri Schiavo?s husband. Also with him is George Felos, the attorney for Michael Schiavo. Fifteen years ago, of course you know the story, Terri Schiavo collapsed when her heart temporarily stopped beating and oxygen cut off resulted in Terri suffering severe brain damage. She is now 41-years-old being cared for in a Florida hospice, kept alive by a feeding tube. That tube was removed today. You were not there, Michael??

MICHAEL SCHIAVO: ?No, I wasn’t, Larry.?

KING: ?Any reason??

SCHIAVO: ?I just didn’t want to be in the room then.?

KING: ?And everyone keeps saying, Michael, I’ll ask George in a minute, even if she said to you, I don’t want to live like this, which is the reason you’ve been doing this, so what? If she’s not in pain and the parents want her to be alive and you’re no longer involved, so what? Why not keep her alive??

SCHIAVO: ?Because this is what Terri wanted. This is her wish. You know something, Larry, I feel like the government. What I’m here for tonight is I’m going to tell you – I feel like the government has just trampled all over my personal life. It is uncomprehensible that a government can walk all over somebody’s private judicial matter, because of their own personal feelings. You know, I should be sitting with my wife right now. You know, her tube was removed and I should be with her. But you know, I felt the need to speak out, because it is just horrible the way that this government is acting with this case.?

? Later in the interview

KING: ?Have you had any contact with the family today? This is a sad day all the way around, Michael. We know of your dispute.?

SCHIAVO: ?I’ve had no contact with them.?

KING: ?No contact at all??

SCHIAVO: ?No?

KING: ?Do you understand how they feel??

SCHIAVO: ?Yes, I do. But this is not about them, it’s about Terri. And I’ve also said that in court. We didn’t know what Terri wanted, but this is what we want.?

212

i’m more disturbed by the fact the several children were used to try to get water to terry s. and they were
arrested for trespassing. the parents
were quite happy that their children
did this. i hope dept of family and children or dept of social services
come to their house and take their
children away, what they did was abuse
and no better then those that hit their
children. damn you cant do that and terry s. can not swallow the children
were pawns in this. rip terry s.

213

[quote]bartonmlee wrote:
i’m more disturbed by the fact the several children were used to try to get water to terry s. and they were
arrested for trespassing. the parents
were quite happy that their children
did this. i hope dept of family and children or dept of social services
come to their house and take their
children away, what they did was abuse
and no better then those that hit their
children. damn you cant do that and terry s. can not swallow the children
were pawns in this. rip terry s.[/quote]

I get so tired…she can swallow.
Did it ever occur to you that the kids might well believe in what they were doing?
Did it ever occur to you that there were adults being arrested that the media wasn’t focusing on? Cause there were, if you watch the feeds for the nets that are there.

214

[quote]ZEB wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
ZEB

Since you are not married let me tell you that I hope my wife would fight for 15 years to insure that my wishes were upheld. You attack Mr. Schiavo for wanting to “pull the plug” when many have come to the conclusion that this in fact was Terri’s desire. His love and devotion to his wife’s wishes show a great deal of strength. He could have walked away many times, but chose to stand up to people like you who feel you know what’s best for everyone else in society. By the way–1st post or 1306th post–doesn’t make you right or wrong.

True, no matter how many posts that you have you can be wrong! Let’s take your 96th post for example. I do happened to be married and very happily so for several years, so that would make you wrong!

As far as the Schiavo case is concerned, I simply quoted a couple of vows that usually are included in a marriage ceremony. Does that trouble you for some reason?
[/quote]

My apologies. Somewhere I inferred that you were not. It looks like this is one of those polarizing issues that
there doesn’t seem to exist a middle ground. I don’t want to get personal in defending my opinion, but as seen in almost all previous posts, it is getting more and more personal so until something different turns up I sign off of this thread. When this gets to the point that people say she should be thrown overroadways and that she doesn’t deserve death with dignity because she may or not have been bulemic
the useful transfer of information has passed. Go in peace Terri

215

The original post was my disgust over the grandstanding of Politicians (and now Famous Actors and Actresses), whose interest, all too often, seems more self-serving…and has little to do with caring about Terri…

Mufasa

216

Understand what you are saying. But what everyone fails to realize in this whole thing, including Congress, is that she is married and her husband has all say. The day you get married, all ties with your parents have been broken. As awful as it may sound, her parents actually can’t stop whatever decision her husband makes, or at least they shouldn’t be able to.

I discussed this with my wife last night, and we both agree that we would not want to live like that. As far as her starving to death, people don’t realize it is not going to be painful for her at all. She will eventually go into a coma and simply slip away in her sleep. It’s not how we would get hungry and thirsty and seemmingly suffer horribly. With her condition it is very humane. Her husband says that she told him she does not want to live like that, unfortunately for him, he doesn’t have it in writing.

Also remember this is the same Congress that wants to take everybody off hospice and life support in order to save a few bucks, yet right now they are trying prolong this womans life. They have their own agenda and she is not part of it.

Bottom line is this should be between her and her husband. Not the parents, not Congress and sure as hell not us.

Adrian Griffin
GET STRONGER!!!

217

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
The original post was my disgust over the grandstanding of Politicians (and now Famous Actors and Actresses), whose interest, all too often, seems more self-serving…and has little to do with caring about Terri…

Mufasa[/quote]

Sorry to break my word so soon…I do agree completely with your original assertion about the self-serving interest of our politicians.

218

Whats really sad about this whole thing is,somewhere out there a very intelligent person is dying of cancer because welware, medicare et al, won’t pay for needed medicine or treatment. Instead they are (and have been) spending millions on someone who is brain-dead for political gain and the sale of news and television time.

219

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1111855946549.Che.jpg

Gov. Bush tried to do “something” but chickened out.

In the meantime, as Terri dies, the talk goes on and on and on…

220

“I advocate the use of force to rescue Terri Schiavo from being starved to death.
I further advocate the killing of anyone who interferes with such rescue.” – Hal Turner.
Second Quote of the Day:

“Web Site Updates Temporarily offline.
I am traveling to do something important.”
–Hal Turner.

kinda scary.