Teach Me How to Close-Grip Bench Properly

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:
we have different definitions of the word tuck. im done. [/quote]

I am trying to avoid the semantics argument. In the comparison photo from one of the previous videos I posted, you can see the difference I’m talking about. You can call the difference whatever you want, but it is there and it’s is important.

How would you (all the guys I’m getting shit from in this thread) go about characterizing the difference I show in that photo in a better way than saying he is tucking his elbows in in the top photo and fairing them out in the bottom photo? (serious question) I will use whatever terminology yall want.

But please, don’t try and tell me there is no difference. There is a huge fucking difference. And it’s very very pertinent to the topic.

Edit: I can call it elbows “normal” and elbows “out” or something if it will make yall feel better.[/quote]

Im not saying that people dont try to protect their shoulders when doing any variation of CGP. Just that the actual close placement of the hands naturally protects the shoulders. So when the hands are in a close grip (my descroption of close grip is about shoulder width hands placement) CONSCIOUSLY going out of ones way to tuck the elbows is pointless.

And from the video of the pics you showed it looks like a guy doing a CGP, standard. When I see powerlifters bench pressing with shirts on and a big arch you can clearly see them consciously bringing their elbows in. When using a CGP its impossible to flare the elbows past a certain point. My whole point is that it is irrelevant to talk about tucking or not tucking WRT to CGP. It just happens. The mental focus should be on hitting the triceps, not on where the elbows are going. [/quote]

The top or bottom photo is “normal”? Because there is a huge difference between the 2?

And I’m not saying every rep the only words in your head should be “tuck your elbows, tuck your elbows, tuck your elbows”. I’m saying when you are first starting the exercise you should take a look at it. I see people in the gym all the time with there elbows way way out. I don’t think doing CGBP automatically insures people aren’t fairing their elbows too much.

I personally would not recommend keeping your elbows as far out as you see in the lower picture, throughout the entire movement (or more specifically in the bottom of the lift). Thats all. I consider it bad for the shoulders. You see it differently and that’s fine. [/quote]

I see it differently because that’s about as CLOSE as I’d ever bring my elbows during a CGP. Im pretty sure its going to vary with each individual. You cant tell a guy whos comfortable pressing with a 45+ degree angle to tuck more just for the sake of it. Thats really all Im saying. CGP is a very natural movement. Save for absurd ego lifting, I think it’s pretty hard to hurt yourself doing it.

42

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:
we have different definitions of the word tuck. im done. [/quote]

I am trying to avoid the semantics argument. In the comparison photo from one of the previous videos I posted, you can see the difference I’m talking about. You can call the difference whatever you want, but it is there and it’s is important.

How would you (all the guys I’m getting shit from in this thread) go about characterizing the difference I show in that photo in a better way than saying he is tucking his elbows in in the top photo and fairing them out in the bottom photo? (serious question) I will use whatever terminology yall want.

But please, don’t try and tell me there is no difference. There is a huge fucking difference. And it’s very very pertinent to the topic.

Edit: I can call it elbows “normal” and elbows “out” or something if it will make yall feel better.[/quote]

Im not saying that people dont try to protect their shoulders when doing any variation of CGP. Just that the actual close placement of the hands naturally protects the shoulders. So when the hands are in a close grip (my descroption of close grip is about shoulder width hands placement) CONSCIOUSLY going out of ones way to tuck the elbows is pointless.

And from the video of the pics you showed it looks like a guy doing a CGP, standard. When I see powerlifters bench pressing with shirts on and a big arch you can clearly see them consciously bringing their elbows in. When using a CGP its impossible to flare the elbows past a certain point. My whole point is that it is irrelevant to talk about tucking or not tucking WRT to CGP. It just happens. The mental focus should be on hitting the triceps, not on where the elbows are going. [/quote]

The top or bottom photo is “normal”? Because there is a huge difference between the 2?

And I’m not saying every rep the only words in your head should be “tuck your elbows, tuck your elbows, tuck your elbows”. I’m saying when you are first starting the exercise you should take a look at it. I see people in the gym all the time with there elbows way way out. I don’t think doing CGBP automatically insures people aren’t fairing their elbows too much.

I personally would not recommend keeping your elbows as far out as you see in the lower picture, throughout the entire movement (or more specifically in the bottom of the lift). Thats all. I consider it bad for the shoulders. You see it differently and that’s fine. [/quote]

I see it differently because that’s about as CLOSE as I’d ever bring my elbows during a CGP. Im pretty sure its going to vary with each individual. You cant tell a guy whos comfortable pressing with a 45+ degree angle to tuck more just for the sake of it. Thats really all Im saying. CGP is a very natural movement. Save for absurd ego lifting, I think it’s pretty hard to hurt yourself doing it.
[/quote]

I do at least agree that ego lifting is one of the main problems in this area.

43

This is a better articulation of my points. See #3 in the article.

I cringe when I see anyone in the gym doing any kind of bench like the first video in #3.

44

Man I was way off track on what I thought a close-grip. I always thought close-grip was much closer. Almost like doing a Diamond push-up. I always thought of most of these examples as what I would call “regular” grip.

45

[quote]Nerraw Siclar wrote:
Man I was way off track on what I thought a close-grip. I always thought close-grip was much closer. Almost like doing a Diamond push-up. I always thought of most of these examples as what I would call “regular” grip.[/quote]

Each hand is about 5-6" wider in a regular bench press for me. Maybe slightly more. It’s all about individual preference and where you feel the stimulation. There is a lot of carryover until you start going too narrow.

46

[quote]Nerraw Siclar wrote:
Man I was way off track on what I thought a close-grip. I always thought close-grip was much closer. Almost like doing a Diamond push-up. I always thought of most of these examples as what I would call “regular” grip.[/quote]

thats the point i was trying to make in my first post. moving your hands in close is a case of diminishing returns. you start getting your grip too close and you end up stressing your wrist without much benifit to your tris.

47

Anyways, back to the OP’s actual question. If you felt like your shoulders were doing the work, I’m willing to bet your forearms aren’t staying vertical. You may have them tilted slightly towards your feet. This would emphasize your shoulders and de-emphasize your tris. (it kinda turns the movement into a lying front delt raise)

The more you tilt your forearms back toward your head, the more it will emphasize tris. (tilting them this way turns the movement into more of a triceps extension) But anything out of vertical is going to reduce the weight you can use (not that that is always a bad thing for all you non-powerlifters).

48

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Anyways, back to the OP’s actual question. If you felt like your shoulders were doing the work, I’m willing to bet your forearms aren’t staying vertical. You may have them tilted slightly towards your feet. This would emphasize your shoulders and de-emphasize your tris. (it kinda turns the movement into a lying front delt raise)

The more you tilt your forearms back toward your head, the more it will emphasize tris. (tilting them this way turns the movement into more of a triceps extension) But anything out of vertical is going to reduce the weight you can use (not that that is always a bad thing for all you non-powerlifters).[/quote]

I agree, though a video would clear it up.

When I had this problem with regular benching it was because I was conciously thinking about where my forearms were instead of just letting the bar go into my naturally strong barpath.

I would suggest lightening up and doing some work in the 12-15 rm range until you feel more comfortable.

You guys arguing semantics aren’t helping the OP at all so just cool it.

49

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Anyways, back to the OP’s actual question. If you felt like your shoulders were doing the work, I’m willing to bet your forearms aren’t staying vertical. You may have them tilted slightly towards your feet. This would emphasize your shoulders and de-emphasize your tris. (it kinda turns the movement into a lying front delt raise)

The more you tilt your forearms back toward your head, the more it will emphasize tris. (tilting them this way turns the movement into more of a triceps extension) But anything out of vertical is going to reduce the weight you can use (not that that is always a bad thing for all you non-powerlifters).[/quote]

This info is strictly for barbell pressing? right?

Because pressing towards the feet in a smith with a small angle in the arms and a flat back is a great way to hit the triceps.

50

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Anyways, back to the OP’s actual question. If you felt like your shoulders were doing the work, I’m willing to bet your forearms aren’t staying vertical. You may have them tilted slightly towards your feet. This would emphasize your shoulders and de-emphasize your tris. (it kinda turns the movement into a lying front delt raise)

The more you tilt your forearms back toward your head, the more it will emphasize tris. (tilting them this way turns the movement into more of a triceps extension) But anything out of vertical is going to reduce the weight you can use (not that that is always a bad thing for all you non-powerlifters).[/quote]

This info is strictly for barbell pressing? right?

Because pressing towards the feet in a smith with a small angle in the arms and a flat back is a great way to hit the triceps. [/quote]

yes, I took the OPs statement to mean he was talking about using a barbell when he was discussing his shoulders doing all the work.

I will bow to your superior knowlege of the smith. I freely admit I know jack shit about doing anything in a smith machine.

51

If it’s in the smith then maybe you just need to slide up/down (probably up) the bench a bit until it feels more comfortable.

52

I’m partial to partials for CGBP myself. Half-rep from a dead stop. Used to do the top third of the movement, but it wasn’t hitting my tri’s hard enough so I lowered the pins a couple notches. I have seen a definite improvement in the lateral head since doing these. Particularly the left arm, which has always lagged in the horseshoe department.

I also like doing a dumbbell version with a neutral grip, bringing them straight down to the shoulders and pressing straight back up. Very easy on the shoulders and very hard on the tri’s, but it definitely limits the amount of weight you can use.

53

^You are absolutely right! What a genius!!!

Wait…shit…I was supposed to change accounts before I did that, huh?

54

I tuck my elbows on the way down on the regular free-weight CGP… Have always done it. Yeah, so you get some delts at the bottom, but anything is better for me than using my pecs on the CGP… I like them the way they are: Not torn.
Grip is (for me) half a thumb or so from the smooth part of the bar… Regular flat bench (which is still a CGP for me haha) I go about a thumbs-length or just a hint further from the smooth part and don’t tuck all the way.
Check some vids by Jeremy Hoornstra… My bench looks the same (well, I can’t do 715 like he does though haha) though I use a suicide grip… My CGP is also suicide grip but with elbows tucked more at the bottom… I flare on the way up (a recent addition to my technique, been doing that for the past 2 years only or so).

I can’t do elbows out all the way on the CGP, no idea how people do it unless I were to use an EZ bar and very low weight. Same for a really narrow grip. I don’t see the point.

For elbows out tricep pressing (all lateral/outer head for me), I like the standing (rack or no rack) BTN press but only going down to 90 degree bend or so in the elbows, that’s roughly at the top of the head for me, perhaps a tad lower. Also IH presses in the smith, which are nice in that they hit the long head real good as well… I don’t flare all the way on those though, just 45 deg or so.

I need to use elbow sleeves for the BTN work though, those bother my left outer tricep at the elbow otherwise… As does all elbows-out work save maybe flared DB presses.

Those BTN half presses are the only elbows fully -flared free-weight press that I like… If I don’t tuck on the CGP, my stability is simply not there.

If you’re looking for a pure tricep pressing exercise, go with the “press-towards-feet” -style stuff in the smith or on certain pressing machines… Regular CGP for me is a power exercise, there’ll be some delt in there no matter what I do and that’s fine.

Of course you can also do pin presses in the rack or board presses so that you never get into the part of ROM where your shoulders work the most (i.e. at the bottom for me with elbows tucked).

Ultimately, do whatever feels best to you… And if you just can’t get the exercise to feel right, ditch it.
Just because a bunch of internet people say it’s hardcore to do this or that exercise doesn’t mean it’s worth getting injured or making no progress.

55

Oh, and my forearms do not point straight up on the CGP at the bottom… They are angled a bit towards my shoulders.

Strength-wise, I’m:

  1. Triceps
  2. Front Delts
    …
  3. Pecs

So that should clear up why my technique looks the way it does.

56

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I can’t do elbows out all the way on the CGP, no idea how people do it unless I were to use an EZ bar and very low weight. Same for a really narrow grip. I don’t see the point.
[/quote]

Am I the only one who’s seen this before?

Oh, and to be clear, who’s side are you on. =0) You did mention intentionally tucking on the way down and flaring on the way up. I don’t want to pressure you any, but if you were to mention that perchance I was what one might refer to as correct, I wouldn’t be offended.

57

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I can’t do elbows out all the way on the CGP, no idea how people do it unless I were to use an EZ bar and very low weight. Same for a really narrow grip. I don’t see the point.
[/quote]

Am I the only one who’s seen this before?

Oh, and to be clear, who’s side are you on. =0) You did mention intentionally tucking on the way down and flaring on the way up. I don’t want to pressure you any, but if you were to mention that perchance I was what one might refer to as correct, I wouldn’t be offended.[/quote]

I’m on your side on this one (as in, I do them the way you describe), more or less. But then again, I’ve rarely seen anyone else do them the way I do. Or do them with any real weight at all…

I figure you can hit the elbows-out position with so many other exercises from machine presses to BTN presses, and most bodybuildes flare big time on the regular bench too (not me, but most do), so why add yet another exercise where you do that?
Bothers my elbows, too.

58

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I can’t do elbows out all the way on the CGP, no idea how people do it unless I were to use an EZ bar and very low weight. Same for a really narrow grip. I don’t see the point.
[/quote]

Am I the only one who’s seen this before?

Oh, and to be clear, who’s side are you on. =0) You did mention intentionally tucking on the way down and flaring on the way up. I don’t want to pressure you any, but if you were to mention that perchance I was what one might refer to as correct, I wouldn’t be offended.[/quote]

I’m on your side on this one (as in, I do them the way you describe), more or less. But then again, I’ve rarely seen anyone else do them the way I do. Or do them with any real weight at all…

I figure you can hit the elbows-out position with so many other exercises from machine presses to BTN presses, and most bodybuildes flare big time on the regular bench too (not me, but most do), so why add yet another exercise where you do that?
Bothers my elbows, too.

[/quote]

Maybe weight is another big factor. If you aren’t using a weight big enough to cause any injuries technique probably isn’t as big an issue.

I’ve always been pretty good at CGP, and doing a little math I work out with up to about 70% of what my max normal bench is, for sets in the 3-5 rep range. What kind of weight do you use on these?

59

Enough so that people will immediately bother me about videos :wink:

I can close-grip way more than I can do with a wide or “normal” grip. And it took many years for my back-squat to surpass my close-grip press…

Seriously, my wide-grip is maybe 80 percent of my close-grip… I might get that for a rep or two, but it’s too awkward on the shoulders and I’m not stable enough then. There are people who can do for 5-10 what I wide-grip for one yet I can close-grip more than they can wide grip for a single. Always been that way.

Thumbs-length from the smooth part (I have very short fingers compared to everyone else on the planet, or so it seems, too) is roughly my strongest grip and my strongest pressing exercise.

All shows in the rest of my exercises too… Been a while since I’ve met someone in person who was stronger overhead or on tricep work than me, yet everyone and their mother (especially their mother) has bigger and stronger pecs… Gah.

60

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Enough so that people will immediately bother me about videos :wink:

I can close-grip way more than I can do with a wide or “normal” grip. And it took many years for my back-squat to surpass my close-grip press…

Seriously, my wide-grip is maybe 80 percent of my close-grip… I might get that for a rep or two, but it’s too awkward on the shoulders and I’m not stable enough then. There are people who can do for 5-10 what I wide-grip for one yet I can close-grip more than they can wide grip for a single. Always been that way.

Thumbs-length from the smooth part (I have very short fingers compared to everyone else on the planet, or so it seems, too) is roughly my strongest grip and my strongest pressing exercise.

All shows in the rest of my exercises too… Been a while since I’ve met someone in person who was stronger overhead or on tricep work than me, yet everyone and their mother (especially their mother) has bigger and stronger pecs… Gah.

[/quote]

now I’m curious about a number.