TBT vs Split - Gains Challenge

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

In this thread on page 9 I issued a challenge, most likely effectively putting my foot in my mouth:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1295623&pageNo=8

The challenge is simple, I use a split routine and I challenged anyone using Total Body Routine to put their gains against mine over a 6 month period. I predict I will ad 20 pounds of muscle over a 6 month period, and lose all fat to achieve a ripped muscular look. Understand that at 6’1 210 pounds of fat ass with no muscle definition and 20-30% BF roughly estimated, I began training 2 months, and 2 days ago.

On August 21, 2006 I went back to the gym after 4 years of heavy drinking, and getting fat. It has now been 2 months and 2 days of working out.

On page 9 of the above thread “rainjack” accepted my challenge with the following stipulations:
“But I’ll do you one better. I’m going to Cancun for Christmas. We leave 9 weeks from today. Starting Monday, I will train only TBT for the duration, and I will have put on more LBM, and be at a lower BF than you will be in that 9 weeks training however it is you train.”

What follows is the best pictures I could get of me prior to starting training on 8-21-06. The pictures were taken on or about 8-15-06, we were on vacation @ Myrtle beach. After returning from vacation I began training 8-21-06. Unfortunately, I did not pose for any pictures because my esteem was so low. I think you can the idea from the pictures what a giant pile of dung I was.

Once everyone has had a chance to take those sloppy pics in, I will post pics of where I am currently. the curent pics will be posted tomorrow evening 10-19-06.
Pics will be added to my profile for whatever reason.

To re-iterate:

-yes, I will put on at least 20 pounds of muscle over a 6 month period which began 8-22-06. Today is 10-19-06

  • yes I accept anyone to challenge my gains over a 6 month period which began for me on 8-22-06

  • yes, I accepted the challenge from rainjack, and I accept the challenge from anyone else that feels they can outperform my gains in any 6 month period using TBT methods.

Stipulations:

-Only currently legal supplements are allowed.

-I will only consider challengers if they are using a total body training method using weights/machines. I will not compete with gymnasts using rings, pummel horses, or anything of the like.

Disclaimer:
In no way does this mean TBT does not work and is not a viable option. This is simply an offer of competition. Now lets see if I can get 20+ pounds of muscle and cut this sloppy figure up in 6 months.(remember, I began 8-21-06)

2

Whoa man, good shot of this mess and why I had an esteem issue.

3

no muscle, big huge stomach and Gyno…210 pounds of fat ass.

4

Me and the kid. He doesnt care I am a train wreck and cannot participate in physcial activity.

I will post my present status tomorrow evening after everyone has had a chance to hash these pics over. The wife had me remove the kid

5

It takes balls to put yourself out there like that.

The accountability of posting your goals and pics onlin is what helped me lose 23lbs of fat just recently with the Velocity Diet and CT’s fat-loss routine from his ebook.

Good luck with your goals.

6

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Understand that at 210 pounds of fat ass with no muscle definition and 20-30% BF roughly estimated…[/quote]

If I recall you are about 6’1" tall? My mind boggles at my likely BF% when I started out at a sedentary 250lbs at 6’.

Anyhow, good luck on the 20lbs of lean mass over that time frame.

7

Yes, I am 6’1 tall. 20-30% BF is a rough guess. I had little muscle mass and plenty all over fat.

petedacook

8

Interesting. I look forward to seeing the results of this, although I certainly hope people don’t base the results of 2 individuals using differing training methods as an end-all truth to which training method works better.

9

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Me and the kid. He doesnt care I am a train wreck and cannot participate in physcial activity.

I will post my present status tomorrow evening after everyone has had a chance to hash these pics over. [/quote]

Not to be a meany, but man, the kid does care. That should be all the motivation you need. To hell with this thread and this challenge. You won’t remember me or Rj or anyone years from now, but chances are you’ll look back and remember the day you could play with your kid and not get winded.

Good luck/G bless

10

Good on you and I look forward to the present photos. I must say I think the whole competition is a little flawed though. Either way, it isn’t going to prove one method is better than the other. There’s just so many varibles, diet, genetics, training intensity to name a few.

But if it’s keeping you motivated and in the Gym then it’s worth it.

11

You better bust your ass, cause me know RainJack will.

I suggest you use HSS 100, or google up a plan called “Max OT”, works wonders for me.

12

I can’t compete if we are only using legal supps. I am on a cycle right now, and will not finish until the day we leave for Maxico.

But - I can give you odds, or we can weight it somehow.

The cool thing is that, unlike Go Heavy Fool, you stepped up and are willing to put your money where your mouth is.

That is a rarity around here, what with all the internet Mr. O’s and all.

Let me know what you want to do.

This started out as a put up or shut up challenge, but now - I just want to see you hit your marks. I had you pegged as a different type of person.

13

Hey Pete, I’m here to check this out. I am also trying to remake my body after losing around 90 lbs in the past 4 years. I have to get to where I want to be by June 2nd of next year…thats my wedding date. I look forward to seeing your progress.

14

Good luck with your training.

15

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I can’t compete if we are only using legal supps. I am on a cycle right now, and will not finish until the day we leave for Maxico.

But - I can give you odds, or we can weight it somehow.

The cool thing is that, unlike Go Heavy Fool, you stepped up and are willing to put your money where your mouth is.

That is a rarity around here, what with all the internet Mr. O’s and all.

Let me know what you want to do.

This started out as a put up or shut up challenge, but now - I just want to see you hit your marks. I had you pegged as a different type of person. [/quote]

Did you just say that you’re on steroids? And that you were about to go into a challenge with a guy? That’s really weird.

16

For someone who has a self-proclaimed ability “to formulate scientific method, analytical analysis, …” your approach is highly lacking.

First, 210 lbs at 20-30% BF means that you are guesstimating 42 to 63 lbs of BF. Thats a wide margin, even if youre holding a shoe! For example, as of ~2 weeks ago you were at 195 lbs. How can you know the actual recomposition without some level of accuracy of your actual beginning BF? At this point, if youve lost only BF, are you now at 14% BF (42-15), 25% BF (63-15), or somewhere else? You dont really know because there`s too much margin of error on you initial data.

And, as most BB well know, resistance program is only one factor? What about cardio and, more importantly, diet? Plus, there is homeostasis, beginning set point, etc

While I applaud your effort, a blanket statement of a split being superior to TBT for someone at your starting point is ridiculous. Where you`re currently at, either choice will make a tremendous improvement in body recomp if your diet is in checking and cardio is optimized.

It looks like youre very motivated at this point, so best of luck in your effort. But without more accurate starting data, it is going to be very difficult to prove that youve put on 20 Lbs of LBM in six months. Fairly unlikely with legal supplements alone, unless you are highly gifted genetically. And, in the event that you were to achieve your six month goal, there is no way you can point to it coming from using a split rather than using TBT.

17

[quote]Nards wrote:
Did you just say that you’re on steroids? And that you were about to go into a challenge with a guy? That’s really weird. [/quote]

What’s weird about that?

18

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I can’t compete if we are only using legal supps. I am on a cycle right now, and will not finish until the day we leave for Maxico.

But - I can give you odds, or we can weight it somehow.

The cool thing is that, unlike Go Heavy Fool, you stepped up and are willing to put your money where your mouth is.

That is a rarity around here, what with all the internet Mr. O’s and all.

Let me know what you want to do.

This started out as a put up or shut up challenge, but now - I just want to see you hit your marks. I had you pegged as a different type of person. [/quote]

Dude,

I really appreciate your honesty. You could have crushed may gains and virtually ruined me. I know there is no way I could compete with anyone on gear.

And I totally understand about the Mr. Internet O thing. I run into that sort of thing myself. I hope everyone realizes I am not that guy (at least I think I’m not).

Honestly, I was not expecting the support I have received so far, so competing is not important for me at this point. I totally understand you calling my bluff and I am totally fine with you coming along for the ride. I am, however, interested in seeing what I would have lost to.

I put 2+2 together last night and realized SRW has had a weight loss thread since like January with excellent results. I understand why you all were so quick to defend him when I attacked him and I admire how you supported him and backed him up.

boss99er,

Good Luck with those goals. I was actually married last year July 3, 2005 (first time BTW). And thanks for the support. And the first year of marriage has been great. Dont let people tell you different.

Everyone,
Thanks for all the support, and look for the update this evening. This Sunday will be the end of week 9.

Petedacook

19

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Nards wrote:
Did you just say that you’re on steroids? And that you were about to go into a challenge with a guy? That’s really weird.

What’s weird about that? [/quote]

You’re a roid boy… no wonder your mind is all fucked up. Sure didn’t help your body any. I got money on the cool guy doing the split program. Not only is it superior for aesthetics, the guy doing has a far better attitude than you and he doesn’t cheat. He’s a real man. If you learn anything Rainman, learn from this guy.

GET OFF the roids, they’re meesing with your hormones or something… that’s probably why you attacked upteen people in my thread.

Sorry for the inconvienence cook. Kick his ass!

20

[quote]T-Bone2 wrote:
For someone who has a self-proclaimed ability “to formulate scientific method, analytical analysis, …” your approach is highly lacking.

First, 210 lbs at 20-30% BF means that you are guesstimating 42 to 63 lbs of BF. That?s a wide margin, even if you?re holding a shoe! For example, as of ~2 weeks ago you were at 195 lbs. How can you know the actual recomposition without some level of accuracy of your actual beginning BF? At this point, if you?ve lost only BF, are you now at 14% BF (42-15), 17% BF (63-15), or somewhere else? You don?t really know because there?s too much margin of error on you initial data.

And, as most BB well know, resistance program is only one factor ? what about cardio and, more importantly, diet? Plus, there is homeostasis, beginning set point, ?

While I applaud your effort, a blanket statement of a split being superior to TBT for someone at your starting point is ridiculous. Where you?re currently at, either choice will make a tremendous improvement in body recomp if your diet is in checking and cardio is optimized.

It looks like you?re very motivated at this point, so best of luck in your effort. But without more accurate starting data, it is going to be very difficult to prove that you?ve put on 20 Lbs of LBM in six months. Fairly unlikely with legal supplements alone, unless you are highly gifted genetically. And, in the event that you were to achieve your six month goal, there is no way you can point to it coming from using a split rather than using TBT. [/quote]

The shoe thread is hilarious! I think I laughed for 20 minutes one day looking at that thread. If you think it helps, I will hold a shoe and take a picture tonight.

The rough estimate of body fat is me not wanting to waste time figuring my body fat content more accurately. Lets face, skin fold body fat measuring is not an accurate science in itself. I think a guess of variance for such a measurement is +/- 3%. And thats just my guess from what I know about it. A more accurate guess of my beginning bodyfat would be 27.43%. 165 pounds (where I was with equal muscle definition at one point) with a skin fold BFM of 6%, gauged against the 210 pound sloppy mess comes to an estimate of 27.43%, I would say with a variance of +/-3%. Understand I am in no way a math wizard, or a body composition expert.

I agree that gauging the success of my goals are rather subjective. My thoughts on that are that within reason I think the people here can look at a person and guestimate when a gain of 20 pounds LBM is evident. I am conifent at the end of my 6 month goal period, everyone will agree I put on at least 20 pounds of LBM.

I appreciate your thoughts that putting on 20 pounds of LBM in 6 months using only OTC supplements is unlikely, and I will enjoy your admiration once the the 6 months are over. My question for you is are you going to accuse me of using juice?

My self poroclaimed ability “to formulate scientific method, and analytical analysis” does not necessarily mean I am a body composition wizard, or mathematician. It means I can apply scientific method to problem sovling, and I can think well. Got a problem, with enough time I will solve it. Car wont start, I can trouble shoot it, lamp dosn’t turn on, I’ll figure it out. How? isolate and eliminate variables (scientific method) with the application of analytical thought. But then again, the only reason I said that is because I could not understand why I was getting smashed and was trying to defend myself.

I am also a strong believer and very good at a Zen state of mind, but that is another topic.

I understand what your saying that gains cannot toally be atttributed to a routine and therefore does not mean one is better, and I totally agree, I think we all agree, but I tried to cover that in the disclaimer: “In no way does this mean TBT does not work and is not a viable option. This is simply an offer of competition.” I would not at all be surpprised if Waterbury could take me and smash my gains with TBT.

I think we can all agree that just because I reach my goals or pass someone’s gains who is using a TBT routine does not mean one is better than the other. I will say that I am confident my gains will pass someone else’s using TBT, and most likely someone using a split. I see it every time I go to the gym.

Now I am ready to rip into some heavy intense training.