[quote]Professor X wrote:
SWR-1240 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
firestanggt wrote:
You may need to get the handle up closer to the plates, if possible, to keep the other end from coming up.
Exactly. The other end doesn’t come up unless you are trying to lift the bar somewhere near the middle. That is actually the first time I have EVER heard someone comment that the entire bar comes up while doing the exercise. Your hands should be nearly touching the plates on one end or as close to that “weight stop” as possible.
I hold onto the bar where my hand is touching that weight stop, and can’t get any closer to the weights.
This happens every time, and I hear the back end hit that plate that I put on the back to hold it from coming up.
I stand at an angle that the plates hit me in the chest, just as the bar is barely missing my crotch.
Wait…how tall are you?
If you are very short, that would explain a lot.[/quote]
I still don’t get it. Given his description of his grip and position, it just doesn’t make sense that the back end comes up, even if he is very short.
[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
Professor X wrote:
BarneyFife wrote:
I am just in shock about the fact that the Proffesser does NOT deadlift. Did anyone else see that?
I also take showers on a regular basis and wear new underwear daily. Call me crazy.
I shower daily as well. But I don’t wear NEW underwear daily. I just wear CLEAN underwear daily. That must get expensive, do you give the old pairs to salvation army or something?[/quote]
I actually toss them out daily to the crowd of college girls, desperate housewives (and that one really strange looking homeless dude) that wait outside my apartment. That does get expensive though. I shall have to consider this “cleaning of the underwear” you speak of.
[quote]Ipsum wrote:
I still don’t get it. Given his description of his grip and position, it just doesn’t make sense that the back end comes up, even if he is very short.
[/quote]
If someone is very short…they are very near the ground. If they bend over…they are even CLOSER to the ground. If that person who is very close to the ground tries to lift a straight bar, even at one end, the back end has a greater chances of coming up because of the decreased angle.
Which bar is more likely to come up in back…the one working within 25 degrees of an angle, or the one working above that?
[quote]slickid wrote:
Neither. The bar can only move in 1 path. It’s path doesn’t change because of the person’s height. [/quote]
The height that the bar travels from the ground changes, not the path of movement. The arc stays the same. The working range of that arc does not. A taller person will lift at a higher angle causing more weight to be pressed towards the back of the bar. A shorter person will be lifting at a smaller angle, meaning more weight is towards the front of the bar…leading to the back of the bar possibly raising from its resting place.
If the physics of that is completely wrong, someone let me know but it seems right to me from that physics class I had in college.
It should look like the picture above making it a secondary lever.
The more weight on the bar, the less the bar should raise in the back as well because that also translates to more weight being directed towards the back of the bar as the lifter lifts the weight through the range of movement.
There have to be some physics majors on this board to confirm whether this correct or not.
You’re totally right, but the taller person would still go through and past the original angle and path of the shorter person, so if the bar were to raise up on the shorter person, it would raise up on the taller person too.
[quote]slickid wrote:
You’re totally right, but the taller person would still go through and past the original angle and path of the shorter person, so if the bar were to raise up on the shorter person, it would raise up on the taller person too.
[/quote]
No, it wouldn’t actually because the taller person would only pass through that smallest angle when initially lifting the weight and when finishing his set. That means, by sheer nature of passing several times through the angle that off sets the end piece’s stability, the shorter person is more likely to dislodge the bar.
Another thing to consider is HOW you are pulling. Its possible that your could be pulling straight up, as if you were just trying to man-handle something up, versus trying to pull in the range of motion of the fulcrum.
[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
Another thing to consider is HOW you are pulling. Its possible that your could be pulling straight up, as if you were just trying to man-handle something up, versus trying to pull in the range of motion of the fulcrum.
Did that make ANY sense?[/quote]
Yes, but even if they somehow followed the arc of the bar (even though, like you said, human action may not pull in the exact same arc), the closer the angle is to the ground, the less weight is applied to the back of the bar. When I do this movement, regardless of the arc the bar travels in, I am pulling straight back/up.
[quote]slickid wrote:
You’re totally right, but the taller person would still go through and past the original angle and path of the shorter person, so if the bar were to raise up on the shorter person, it would raise up on the taller person too.
[/quote]
I was thinking the same thing at first, but then thought that if I were taller with longer arms, my butt would be sitting back further and I would have more of my body weight pulling me back as I lifted the bar up.
When I grab the bar, the distance between my hands and my back end isn’t going to be as far as the distance from a tall guy’s hands and back end, so I think I would be pulling up more than back.
That’s how I see it anyway. I’m following with what Professor X is saying, and I agree that’s the case.
As for my height, according to Wikipedia, I’m the average height of a male (in impoverished Vietnam and North Korea).
[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
Another thing to consider is HOW you are pulling. Its possible that your could be pulling straight up, as if you were just trying to man-handle something up, versus trying to pull in the range of motion of the fulcrum.
Did that make ANY sense?[/quote]
Like I said earlier, I have only had problems with this at the end of a set when my form goes to crap. If you’re jerking the weight as opposed to controling it throughout the entire range of motion, it’ll be more likely to pop up. If you’re having problems, it may be your form. Just a theory outside of the physics of it.
Having finally recovered from the visions of Professor X and his underwear, my 2 cents.
I do these using 25 pound plates for the increased ROM and a V handle hooked unger the bar up against the hub on the inside of the plates. I’ll have to give up the 25’s when I get stronger. Rowing with a trap bar works well too, but obviously has a much wider grip.
If the unloaded end of the bar is coming off the ground, put a 55lb dumbbell or bigger across the unloaded end. If this doesn’t solve your problem, realize that you are pulling the plates back to your chest. You are not trying to heave the plates forward.
This is completely unrelated. Professor X, do you do barbell cleans? Seems like a close cousin to deadlifts. I was just wondering if you did them…and if you ever intend to cage the college girls outside your apartment.
Hey, just wanted to thank the Prof and others who tried to explain re the back end of the bar lifting when doing “corner rows”. I finally experienced it for myself last week. It happened to me when I attempted to pull my 5RM on it, it just never occurred to me in the past because the weight I was using was too light.
Since I see this thread has been resurrected, and I don’t think it has been mentioned yet:
I’ve always found the typical V-Handle attachment that most use on a barbell T-Row to be far too narrow, so I remedy it by doing this:
Find some short bit of chain (I just use the length provided by a dip belt) and wrap it around the pulling end of the bar.
Then, using a typical carabinier type cable attachment clip, you can attach any cable attachment you like to the chain, and use that as your T-Bar Row attachment.
The length from the bar is then increased a bit, so unless you’re very tall, you’d probably need to elevate your feet a bit (you can just use a couple of those aerobics steps. Hey, they should be put to use for something).
Just thought I’d throw this out there in the off-chance that people might find it helpful. I’ve gotten a far better feel/results from using a wider cable attachment on the T-Bar rows than the narrow V-handle.
I like that idea. Another idea is to put the v-handle on the bar, and then run any other bar through the v-handle, if that makes any sense…
Does anyone else use 25lb plates to increase the ROM?
Also, it is a third class lever since the weight is in front of you. This is what causes one end to go up when you have a small angle. More of the force is in a upwards (force * sin{theta} ) direction, whereas when the angle is greater (taller individual) more of the force is towards the corner ( force * cosine{theta} ).
The theory is still the same, but now we have physics to back it up…
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Having finally recovered from the visions of Professor X and his underwear, my 2 cents.
I do these using 25 pound plates for the increased ROM and a V handle hooked unger the bar up against the hub on the inside of the plates. I’ll have to give up the 25’s when I get stronger. Rowing with a trap bar works well too, but obviously has a much wider grip.[/quote]
One of the best back exercises, I also do them this way with 25s. I hold at the top part of the contraction and squeeze for about 2 seconds or so.
Most people I see doing this do crap form and they are almost standing straight up, which to me hits more biceps. When I am in the start position, my arms are nearly perpendicular to the floor.
