Struggling with program hopping

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

This year I’ve done a Brian Alsruhe program, Tactical Barbell Mass Protocol, 5/3/1 for Strongman, and now I’m doing DC. Since it’s only September, you can deduce that I’ve only spent 2-3 months at most with each of these. I never really had “shiny object syndrome” before, I used to run the same programs year after year, so this is kind of uncharted waters for me.

What happens is, after a few weeks on whatever program of the month I’ve chosen, I just get bored of the monotony; “oh it’s Monday, guess that means Squats and Bench again” or “heavy deads today, guess that means Rack Pulls”, etc. I understand that’s part of the game but I can’t be the only one who’s had a spell of this.

I don’t think this is a “guy in his 30s getting soft” situation; I’m extremely motivated/productive in every other aspect of life right now.

I’m rambling now, so I guess what I’m asking is, anyone who’s been in a rut like this and broken out of it, how did you do it?

2

How long have you been lifting now?

How often are you able to increase weight or a rep on a core lift?

2 Likes
3

Honestly I’d look into something like conjugate. You get variety in a system and there’s a million ways to run it

Or the cube method. I’ve never done it but I’ve heard great things about it

4 Likes
4

May be just be that you have a ton going on and those things could be a priority. I’m sure you’re career motivated and have other drives. Sometimes that stuff takes up mental space and it’s hard to continually get excited for the gym. Don’t have a solution but I don’t think it’s a bad thing. You’re not slacking in the gym either, so I don’t think you’re regressing or anything.

2 Likes
5

I’ve been lifting in some shape or form since like 2012, but I have to be honest and admit there are definitely some lost years in there. I’d say 2017 was when I really started to get serious with the lifting and it’s really only the last few years I’ve locked in on the diet part, too.

I hit a lot of PRs over the summer when I was doing 531 and had the PR sets. But I have to give credit there to a lot of the volume I was doing in the Alsruhe/TB programs for building the base there. So kind of a roundabout answer, but that’s always kinda been how it goes for me, regardless of what I’m doing - a few months of chipping away followed by a big breakthrough, rinse and repeat.

3 Likes
6

Well yeah… your at that level where your sessions will be “ punching the clock” its pretty much the norm for anyone advance.

2 Likes
7

I wrote recently about “make the method the goal”, and that might be the solution here. Instead of looking forward to what happens IN the training session, we look forward to stringing ANOTHER training session together in the chain. Trying to set a high score/streak.

Because all of these programs WORK…but only if we actually adhere to them. It’s kind of the self-fulfilling prophecy of program hopping: we’re not getting results from our current approach, so we change approaches to one that should be “better”, not appreciating that we didn’t get results because we didn’t give it time to get results.

5 Likes
8

Yeah I think it’s mostly this, because I was doing well for most of this year, but I’ve kind of fallen apart the last few months since starting back in school. So a better question might have been “how to train when you have a lot of stuff going on”. My work and school schedule can vary widely, which doesn’t always gel with what’s written on the spreadsheet.

I like this and had good success with it during that CITP run (you can tell that’s been on my mind since I linked it in that other thread today). Any insight on how to reconcile this advice with programs that are very rigid in terms of “do 5x5@80% today” or “you must add 5lb/1 rep to the last time you did this lift or its a failure”? Perhaps a sign that I am not picking an appropriate program for my situation/goals?

1 Like
Doing Dumb Stuff as a College Kid
9

Yeah, maybe something conjugate style. Where you train for the same goal week after week, but you vary the lifts frequently.

If try to come up with a bunch of different sessions on your own sounds like torture you could check out “The Westside Squat and Deadlift Manual.”

It’s got 20 Max Effort days and 10 Repetition Efforts Days written out. And it includes stuff like wright vest walks, jumps and sled, in addition to varuations of the classic lifts.

3 Likes
10

You could also ditch percentages and planned routines and think in Rep Ranges.

Like “Push Day” is 8 sets of 8 reps. And you pick 2-3 lifts, then accumulate 8 sets of 8 reps (near failure) divided how ever you want. Then GTFO.

3 Likes
11

Perhaps a sign that I am not picking an appropriate program for my situation/goals?

There’s clearly a jelling issue there for sure. It’s not connecting with the headspace you’re in right now.

The simplest solution to me would be “Easy Strength”, where every workout you go by feel. That said, I ran into the EXACT same issue you’re describing WITH Easy Strength: 5 days a week doing the SAME lifts each time just became a grind. I wanted the relief of some freedom.

To which Conjugate was pitched, and I always think that’s a very fun way to train.

And I’m liking Tactical Barbell as a SYSTEM because it helps a little bit in this regard too. You have lights at the end of the tunnel with the OMS approach. “Ok, in 2 weeks, I’ll be done with Mass and onto Specificity: that’s going to be great. Lighter weights, more reps, more movements”. And after your 6th workout of squatting with just 1 minute rests you think “I cannot WAIT for Operator to roll around and only squat sets of 5 with 3 minutes of rest”. It’s like programmed program hopping.

Which, another strategy in THAT regard is to take 5/3/1 Forever, start with the first program, and just work your way through each cycle. “Muscle Mag Periodization”, as @TrainForPain and I call it, like back in the day, when you waited for the NEXT issue of Muscle and Fitness to come out so you could try the latest and greatest workout.

You could even simulate this very experience by doing it with “The Complete Keys to Progress”. Start at the beginning, run the first program for a month, and then wait until next month to start the next page.

Here, we make program hopping the very method that we are sticking with. And the reward is when we go “I’ve already doing 20 of the 50 programs from 5/3/1 Forever: onto #21 now!”

4 Likes
12

Going to come back and give this a proper reply after work today, but wanted to highlight -

In a really weird coincidence, I just bought this in paperback on Saturday (along with Super Squats and Dan John’s Never Let Go). Not necessarily with the intention to run the programs, but just to bring some street cred to my bookshelf and make up for the fact that I actually have a physical copy of Starting Strength :grimacing: (I know, I know, mea culpa).

2 Likes
13

Hey that’s awesome dude! You’re in for a treat with that one.

And no shame in having a copy of Starting Strength. It was good for what it was meant to be: people just tried to make it more than it was. And besides, it helps to “know your enemy”. I’ve read TONS of stuff on programs and ideas I have on intention of ever implementing, but I still learned a ton from it.

2 Likes
14

Are you training mostly for mass or for a specific strength increase?

I know they go hand in hand, but some programs are built around “make the numbers go up” and some are built around “make your body work really hard”

I have found in my experience that for people more interested in mass, program hopping isnt terribly problematic, but can be for people looking to increase their strength because the programs are built a certain way to achieve that, often with a slingshot effect (of starting really easy and ending really hard) that you may be cutting off at the legs if you abandon ship too early.

2 Likes
15

Pretty much how I have approached things. I more or less have my own core foundational principles i follow. If something sounds reasonable and doesnt contradict my principles. I will phase it into my programming. IF after a try out period I dont see small benefit , ill kick it to the curb.

3 Likes
16

I don’t know if mass is the right word because I think I’m pretty much at my “fighting weight” already, but I definitely care more about body comp than specific strength at this point. I tend to respond better to higher reps and yeah I do like movement variety, but I don’t even think that’s negotiable (if I don’t Front Squat my Squat tanks, for instance).

I need to go back to my log and read my notes from when I ran this for a few months. I can’t really remember why I stopped, to be honest, but it seems like from you and @Stormblessed the sessions fit the “punch the clock” bill while also allowing some deviations when you want to work up, and the conditioning allows you to throw in whatever random craving you get (for me right now, sandbags). I would just need to commit to sticking with it, because this definitely seems like one of the programs where you need to see it through to reap the rewards, as opposed to some of the other stuff I’ve been doing, where each session is just about leaving nothing left (which like Lonnie said, you can still grow from doing that, even if it isn’t “optimal”).

1 Like
17

as opposed to some of the other stuff I’ve been doing, where each session is just about leaving nothing left (which like Lonnie said, you can still grow from doing that, even if it isn’t “optimal”).

This is how I landed on it: I was leaving nothing left until I had…nothing left. No ability to grow anymore: just absolutely grinding myself into nothing. Pretty much all I was good at was training, because once the session was done, I was too broken to do anything else. TB giving me a chance to “live to fight another day” after the training sessions was a breath of fresh air, and the fact you actually PROGRESS from it is a bonus.

3 Likes
18

I’m very pro-Tactical Barbell right now and don’t see myself coming off of it anywhere in the near future. It can fit the bill of punch the clock, minimal thinking, do your work and get out. That is kind of what I was looking for. I just got promoted at work, am in the process of buying a house, and have some other stuff going on the personal side, so it fit perfectly. But what is funny is during all this craziness where lifting has not been my #1 priority, I’ve seen the best results since I was in college, haha.

What I like about the programming is it’s flexible. It can be punch the clock, in and out, or you can customize it pretty heavily and go hard on something specific. It is more of a system than a program, similar to 531. Get my main lifting work done. If I have time, add some supplemental work that makes sense. If not, it’s fine. Enough rigidity to progress and enough flexibility to add some fun stuff.

Would also echo what @T3hPwnisher just replied. It straight up works and doesn’t kill you. I would recommend reading Ageless Athlete too, really changed my day to day mindset on the fact that this is not a race. I want to progress but I also want to set my training up in a way that I’ll progress forever instead of running myself into the ground.

5 Likes
19

Not sure if it’s said already, but one option could be investing in some program, training app or a coach. It kinda ties you to it: since I’m paying for this, I should do it.

I’m currently using a coach, and I like it. How exited I’m about certain workout is kinda irrelevant. There’s a plan and I need to just make sure that I execute it with proper effort.

I’ve read a ton about training abd have done my own programming a lot. But sometimes it’s good not to worry about that part, and focus just on doing the work.

2 Likes
20

Always appreciate being in the same line of thinking as @T3hPwnisher! I loved the Muscle Mag Periodization concept because it gave you so much freedom:

First, nothing was a life sentence; if you hated what you were doing, you actually had the freedom to just finish it up rather than worry about it because it’s just a month.

Second, you had the freedom to try anything because, again, it’s just four weeks; how wrong can you go?

Doubling down on our second point, you get the freedom to try anything over the long haul - what we discovered was that lifting the weights was the secret sauce, not how we did it.

So, taking the above (did I just invent some accidental Weider Principles?), we can look for your next route:

Percentages are irritating/ pressuring you. I hate them too. We know that you don’t have to use them (especially for your goals), so let’s throw out anything where that’s the feature.

You don’t want lifting to take up all of your life/ energy, because you’re focused on other things right now. Probably not the time to learn some super intricate system that involves 8 hour workouts.

You like some variety, so you don’t want to be locked into a “grease the groove” type program.

So, now, all the suggestions above make sense and any can work. I’ll throw in a couple caveats:

  1. You do have to give something time to work. I’ve found I really like the Meadows’ methodology, but the individual programs are all interchangeable. So I’d lean toward giving a “system” a go - you can do that for years (if you want) whilst still leaving lots of room for variation in your weeks.
  2. I do think there’s value in following a semblance of a plan from someone else. It lets you get your own head out of it, which can be a huge relief, and it protects you - most of us that like this will get too stupid on our own.

So now, I like two of the suggestions above more so:

  1. Tactical Barbell seems like a great fit. It’s a system that you can plug and play over time, giving you variety, relatively minimalist, fitting into your life, and using all the same movements you know and love, so you don’t have to get irritated learning new things. Most importantly, you seem intrigued.
  2. Conjugate seems cool too. Even more variety and freedom than the above, but that can be a double-edged sword: you’ll have to do some thinking and some of the days can get long.
  3. Dan John is obviously a genius, and if the book excites you - go for it. Based on your posts, though, I think you might feel a little trapped right now.
  4. I also like @FlatsFarmer’s point you can just go in with “8 sets of pull” or whatever. If that feels like it reduces stress, that’s a solid route too. Sometimes that can feel more stressful, because I have to decide what to do.

I also don’t think you have to be focused on making perfect progress all the time. Just lifting weights is the key. If you try something from the list, hate it after 4 weeks and try something else, eventually you’ll settle into a fit and you really didn’t give up any real time in the grand scheme of things. You’ve earned more leeway than somebody trying out their first couple months of lifting.

4 Likes