History: Started lifting last February. Began with Starting Strength (substituting power cleans for chins), and have been doing powerbuilding/powerlifting type four-day splits for the past 13 months.
Goals: I want to look like I lift. Not really interested in competing in powerlifting/bodybuilding. Only really care about driving my poverty bench up (lesser degree, care about OHP/incline) and looking big/lean in my upper body. Hate squatting, would prefer to do high bar, at most once per week).
Vitals: Age: 39 / Height: 5’9” / Weight: 192lbs / BF 17%? (DEXA was 15% 10lbs/3 months ago, likely a bit higher now)
1RM: 440/220/500
Measurements: Chest 39in / Waist 35.5in / Hips 36.5in / Right/Left Arm Flexed No Pump 14.5in/14in / Right/Left Thigh 22.5in/22.5in
Constraints: Can train 4-5 days per week for 1 hour, likely not longer. Have access to barbbells/dumbbells/adjustable bench/squat rack/chin up bar/dip bar, no machines/cables. Diet I do a lot of takeout since I work long/unusual hours (startup founder), but trying to move to meal prep.
Looking at the following (open to other suggestions):
Option A: 4-day powerbuilding split with bench focus
Option B: 4-day powerlifting split (maybe with 3x-4x bench)
Option C: Some bodybuilding stuff (I like the idea of a Dorian Yates HIT bodypart split, but I don’t think I’m advanced enough to benefit from this)
Thanks. Yeah, I’m getting stronger, but I still don’t look like I lift. And frankly, my squat and deadlift 1RMs don’t matter to me, so don’t enjoy that kind of training.
Arms and chest are tiny (measurements in OP). Legs are decent and somewhat lean (don’t see clear separations, but can based on lighting).
This was the powerbuilding mostly, sessions were way too long though: (removed)
This is what I’m thinking for the Yates split: (removed)
My concern with this is, is one set to failure (after 1-2 warmups) going to be enough for me? Sub 2 years of training, I’m not sure if I will lift with enough weight for the intensity to drive progress. Or do I need rest-pause, drop sets, backoffs?
Yeah, I mean these are from two days ago. 3 photos unflexed. 1 stretching a bit and sucking stomach in a little. And the DEXA results. Maybe the measurements are a bit off, but I used a measuring tape.
At some level, you Make It Enough. As you run a routine, you figure out how to push the scheduled work with enough Ummph that it’s effective.
It looks like most of your training has been with low reps, with long rests between sets. I think you’ll be surprised by how much difference a few more reps per set, and less than half the rest time between sets, feels.
I know the current internet training gurus don’t think “Metabolic Stress” is important. But doing a top set to failure, trying to beat the logbook every week, being slightly out of breath, with pumped muscles is harder than it looks on paper.
And truely, you dont have much to lose by trying something new. If it sucks and you hate it you can always cross that style off the list and go back to something you’re more comfortable with.
Yeah I mean the length of sessions, not doing deadlift/squat heavy singles, and going to (technical?) failure instead of guessing RIR seems more attractive to me. I hope it works. I have seen posts here, on Reddit, and YouTube of (1) people saying they tried HIT and saw no progress after months or (2) that people should have a very strong base first (some of it is the Starting Strength mentality “if you can’t squat 500, bench 400, deadlift 600, you have no business changing programming” – yes reductionist I know). But I think I’m going to give it a go.
Another question is deciding whether to bulk or cut first, or just slowly gain. I don’t have a ton of upper body lean mass, and my midsection is definitely a bit bloated.
Yeah, Andy. I guess the custom plans are a bit different than his plans on his site (and I mean it did help drive up my 1RM on squat and deadlift a lot). They did take quite a long time though. Closer to 75-90 minutes. Keep in mind there are equipment restrictions, so maybe that’s why the upper back is lighter there.
Him and I are the same height and practically the same age. Very similar bodyweights too.
@FlatsFarmer Had tons of great advice. And, funny enough, I just wrote up a blogpost that’s over 5000 words that summarizes my experience with 14 different training programs over 20 years of training (yeesh I’m getting long in the tooth), so that can be a handy reference for me here.
@f1028l I know you mentioned no love for the squat or deadlift, but I will say that the one program I credit for absolutely and completely transforming me that will ALSO get you away from low rep work was Jon Andersen’s Deep Water Beginner and Intermediate programs. @davemccright and @tlgains can both speak to it as well, and we had several others here that have run the program, but many no longer post here or I just flat out can’t remember them at the moment. But if you want “different and effective”, that’s my pick.
Alternatively, to do something completely out of your comfort zone ala what Flats was talking about, DoggCrapp is a great shout. Total dive into the world of bodybuilding, and you definitely won’t have to be doing squatting if you don’t want to, assuming you train in a gym that is properly equipped.
Thanks for this. Appreciate the response. I will respond in more detail to the rest, but I’m not 100% anti-squat. I like high bar squats a lot. I just don’t enjoy low bar squats, or low rep squats (especially doing low rep low bar squats multiple times a week).
I just don’t enjoy low bar squats, or low rep squats (especially doing low rep low bar squats multiple times a week).
Oh man, if THAT’S the case, allow me to also pitch in Mass Made Simple, by Dan John (where you work up to a 50 rep squat with your bodyweight on the bar, training 2-3x per week) and Super Squats, where it’s just ONE set of 20 breathing squats. No low reps at all!
