The competition world record for the clean and jerk is just about 585 pounds by Taranenko. The record for the strict standing press, which allowed hip and back drive but no knee bend, is 507 pounds by Alexeev.
It seems like the jerk is often the limiting factor in the Olympics, but even if this is not the case for the heaviest possible loads we could just assume we are talking about a lift from a rack.
weightlifting has had strict rules about what is a good lift- in the Olympic press there was no knee bend so the press was not leg assisted, and in the jerk it obviously cannot be pressed out-although this seems more difficult to judge for a squat/push jerk, but no shw lifters I have seen use this method.
the questions I have been thinking about are:
(1) which lift has more overall poundage potential, a strict push press or strict jerk
(2) without the rules in either of the above lifts, what would be the most effective method to lift a maximal weight overhead for a shw?
(3) has anyone ever lifted more than Taranenko’s record overhead and locked it out and stood with it unofficially or using a different method that would not pass in competition?
sorry if this subject is irrelevant or seems silly, but I have heard some unsubstantiated claims re: push press records and been thinking about the rule about jerks being pressed out and had to post this
Using a crane, or maybe forklifts, but I think a crane could get alot more tons than a forklift.
Supposedly Paul Anderson could push press 600 lbs from racks. I think his best comp. press was about 185 kilos and his best clean and jerk was about 193, his Jerk looks alot like a push press as well. Lots of oldtime, as well as new, footage here Lift Up, History of Olympic Weightlifting
I think Paul Anderson was more limited by the clean than anything.
Also, in Dinosaur training it says Grimek could do overhead lockouts (maybe 3 inches range of motion or less) with 800 to 1000 pounds. It also said Arthur Saxon could press a 300 lb sandbag, at which point I about had a stroke imagining such a feat.
The big Z, Zydrunas Zavickas pressed a 440 lb log in competition, it looks like he has more problems getting it racked than pressed though(from what I have seen with his other presses, a 419 and others) but I could be mistaken.I am curious if he could press more from a rack than that.
[quote]actionjeff wrote:
The record for the strict standing press, which allowed hip and back drive but no knee bend, is 507 pounds by Alexeev.
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That’s amazing. I would love to see a video of that.
The most weight I have ever heard of anyone lifting overhead is the great Soviet lifter Yuri Zacharievich who was witnessed by many (including Romanian Olympic-Gold medalist Nicu Vlad) to have jerked 300kg from out of the rack.
The only other guy I have heard of lifting over 600lbs overhead is Armenian Ashot Danielyanyan who had jerked 280kg prior to competing in the 2000 Olympics, also done out of the rack.
heh you know what I meant. I meant, if it was life or death and the barbell was planted on the shoulders and using any technique, the most effective method. This could differ now for current shw lifters vs. what a human being could potentially do if trained, like it might be a pseudo pressed out jerk for most Olympic lifters, but if they trained the different type of lift the same way instead maybe it would be something else entirely? I’m just speculating here.
I also assume more weight could be jerked from the neck but I’m thinking more of a clean and jerk/press bastardization
that’s absolutely insane. I saw a 435 strict press video with Anderson where he basically muscle cleaned the barbell and then just pressed it up with easy, zero drive from anywhere but the arms on the press. The Grimek stuff I can’t even swallow.
[quote]Galvatron wrote:
The most weight I have ever heard of anyone lifting overhead is the great Soviet lifter Yuri Zacharievich who was witnessed by many (including Romanian Olympic-Gold medalist Nicu Vlad) to have jerked 300kg from out of the rack.
The only other guy I have heard of lifting over 600lbs overhead is Armenian Ashot Danielyanyan who had jerked 280kg prior to competing in the 2000 Olympics, also done out of the rack.[/quote]
seriously? Those are both insane. I wish something was on video. I don’t think anything bigger than Taranenko’s lift has been recorded. I don’t even know what to say. Rezazadah has some serious work to do.
I thought this would be an interesting discussion! I always get excited when Galvatron posts. Have you heard of an actual full C&J over 266 Galv?
[quote]timbofirstblood wrote:
actionjeff wrote:
The record for the strict standing press, which allowed hip and back drive but no knee bend, is 507 pounds by Alexeev.
That’s amazing. I would love to see a video of that.[/quote]
notice the yell of “knee bend” in the background? I think he’s right. Regardless how beautiful is Alexeev’s form? The man exudes power and greatness. He is a great inspiration. He would train outside, had no coach or program, trained whatever he felt his body wanted at random times with no planning or anything, and became one of the strongest human beings ever. I read an interview with him that was truly amazing, I’d google for it if you’re interested.
Imagine what he would lift just for a push/olympic press. Imagine what he would lift for a bench press? Probably wouldn’t even need to arch, and I think we’d have a new raw world record that would still be standing to this day. Put those powerlifters to shame eh? That’s one of the coolest aspects of weightlifting and all of the legendary strong men and their feats to me. There’s no way Rezazadeh or whoever would risk his health and compromise his Olympic training just to show he can deadlift or squat more weight than the current WRS, but you know he could jump into a suit and train a little (if he even needed to!) and just take them. so badass.I also read Paul Anderson could run the 100m at 360 pounds in some absurdly low time. I’d love to see all of this shit but these guys were dedicated to their sport which sadly hasn’t and doesn’t recieve near enough press.
serge redding:
the old days before the “elastic strongman” were certainly interesting
anderson reputably was able to push press 300kg off the rack.
in one of his books or something (article maybe?) he claims Bob Hoffman told him to not break the world record by such a large margin, but to slowly do it so he gathers more fame and money and the likes.
Taranenko has been quoted as saying “272.5kg is no problem” but he would need drive to do it in competiton (aka money). Saleem has done 280 in the Clean and Jerk reputably, Krastev has been said to have clean and jerked 275 or 280. I wouldn’t doubt that Taranenko could have done even more then that. Hell, I’d like to know what Kurlovich did at tops in training, 280 at 125??
A jerk will always beat a push press because you need much less bar height to fix the bar overhead - generally it only needs to be driven to the height of the top of your head.
SHW are generally too tall, slow and fat to make effective squat jerkers - the centre of gravity is all wrong. The split jerk is generally the most effective for any lifter, regardless of weight class, unless you happen to be one of the few freaks that are actually good at the power/squat jerk.
Reza probably couldn’t put 300kg overhead by any means, because he has no reason to. There isn’t really anyone snapping at his heels in the C&J to push him that far. He certainly couldn’t power jerk it.
Which is more impressive though: Reza’s WR done as a massive fatty, or Botev hitting 260kg in training at a bodyweight of 100kg?
I’m inclined to believe at 50% of the stuff I read about Paul Anderson.
Soviet experts allegedly estimated 320kg to be the maximum possible jerk,and 270kg the snatch. The source is an online article that I don’t have track of right now.
Krastev was literally a snatch machine. Look at him. Every aspect of his body frame is perfect for the snatch. In that 216kg snatch, he is literally 1/2 cm from just being crushed by the barbell and his technique is PERFECT till he caves right at the bottom, that’s a max snatch if I’ve ever seen one. I can’t see 270kg being possible without specific genetic alterations lol
Botev thing is insane and I’ve never heard of that, it impresses me more
I agree on push jerk vs. split jerk, and that split jerk would be more effective than squat jerk for the above reasons mentioned. Can someone go into more detail on the difference between a push jerk and the other variations though? How is that different from a power jerk? I thought a power jerk was a squat jerk without the full squat, and then a push jerk would just be like a push press except a jump, drop, press out? I’m a little confused. I’m assuming the push jerk is not a lift that would pass in competition.
I believe Taranenko could do 272.5. I don’t believe Krastev could C&J anywhere near that though. I have seen competitions where he gets pinned by 240kg on the clean, I can’t see that man doing 32.5kg on top of that for a full lift ever in his life unless that was a really bad day. Wasn’t he known to be a poor clean and jerker?
Thanks, ActionJeff, I appreciate that. Yes I do know of a couple of guys who have lifted over 266 in training. Antonio Krastev told me he had done a 267.5kg lift. Muchran Gogia (an immigrant from Georgia I trained with for a year) told me he has seen Andre Chemerkin do a 270kg lift.
He also told me of a couple of Russians who I had never heard of because they never lifted outside of the country who he had said were capable of cleaning 270kg anytime they wanted, but their jerks were capped at around 250kg or so. Krastev also claims a 270kg rack jerk, not quite 600lbs but close, he did this right before coach Abadjiev dropped them from the program.
A push jerk is another term for power jerk.
I wouldn’t believe that Botev lift. He did do 260kg, but as a slightly heavy 110kg. I also doubt that 280kg by Jaber. I saw his 263kg clean back in '01 and it didn’t look like he was good for much more. Too bad too, I was really pulling for him to defeat Reza Zedah, but he wasn’t able to stay healthy. Koklayev may be able to however, if he decides to make a full blown effort to do so.
[quote]Galvatron wrote:
Thanks, ActionJeff, I appreciate that. Yes I do know of a couple of guys who have lifted over 266 in training. Antonio Krastev told me he had done a 267.5kg lift. Muchran Gogia (an immigrant from Georgia I trained with for a year) told me he has seen Andre Chemerkin do a 270kg lift.
He also told me of a couple of Russians who I had never heard of because they never lifted outside of the country who he had said were capable of cleaning 270kg anytime they wanted, but their jerks were capped at around 250kg or so. Krastev also claims a 270kg rack jerk, not quite 600lbs but close, he did this right before coach Abadjiev dropped them from the program.
A push jerk is another term for power jerk.
I wouldn’t believe that Botev lift. He did do 260kg, but as a slightly heavy 110kg. I also doubt that 280kg by Jaber. I saw his 263kg clean back in '01 and it didn’t look like he was good for much more. Too bad too, I was really pulling for him to defeat Reza Zedah, but he wasn’t able to stay healthy. Koklayev may be able to however, if he decides to make a full blown effort to do so.[/quote]
I’ll definitely take your word on Krastev then. The rack jerk sounds much more likely than the clean for him from what I have read and seen. Chemerkin does not surprise me. I remember seeing him lift for the first time at 260kg and thinking his clean form was weak, and having this reaffirmed watching other competitions.
To have a weak clean form like that yet still be so competitive his sheer strength must have been incredible. I really would have liked to see him clean that 272.5 but I guess Allah gives Reza unbeatable strength =)
Do you keep your log anywhere anymore? I enjoyed following your comeback progress. I would watch some of the youtube vids and be like, whoa is he gonna deadlift all those plates? Clean? nah can’t be… and then you would grab it inside the collars and power snatch it lol
I think Koklaev would be Reza’s biggest competition, but unfortunately I doubt we’ll ever see them lift on the same platform thanks to the supposedly ongoing battles between him and the Russian fed. It’s a big shame - if he’s capable of snatching 210 and just missing a 253kg C&J when he’s not even really concentrating on the lifts he’d be pretty nifty training full time.
I just checked - according to Gwen Sisto Botev did the 260kg as a light 110kg lifter, not a light 110kg+, and then injured his hamstring not long after when the president ofd the Bulgarian fed asked to see him do it again. He also powercleaned 250kg while training at the OTC in 1996. Even if it was at 115kg it’s still an insane lift for a guy that size.
As Galvatron said, power jerk and push jerk are interchangeable. A squat jerk is a power jerk that’s too fucking heavy!
I am not keeping a log anywhere because I am not training for the moment. I suffered a bizarre groin injury while stretching my quad that at first made me feel like I had torn open the stitches on my hernia repair patch. The doctor checked me out and affirmed no hernia, only an injury to the groin, so no further surgery is needed (whew!)
HA! I’ve heard some tall tales, but Botev powercleaning a weight 2.5kg under the weight he failed to squat clean at the 1996 Olympics is good for a laugh or two. I also meant he was just over the 110kg limit when he did his 260kg, this was of course when he was preparing for 1988 Olympics. He may have conditioned himself for it again for 1996, but this time around as a full blown super.
Just over the 110kg limit would make him a light 110kg+ lifter.
Again I’m just going off what Gwen said after she came back from Bulgaria and spent some time with him. Apparently it was her brother who witnessed the 250kg PC. It does sound a bit ridiculous given how much the 250kg squat clean took out of him on the 98 Ironmind tape, but he had just attempted a 190 snatch about 5 times, and C&Jed 240.
I’ll definitely take your word on Krastev then. The rack jerk sounds much more likely than the clean for him from what I have read and seen. Chemerkin does not surprise me. I remember seeing him lift for the first time at 260kg and thinking his clean form was weak, and having this reaffirmed watching other competitions.
To have a weak clean form like that yet still be so competitive his sheer strength must have been incredible. I really would have liked to see him clean that 272.5 but I guess Allah gives Reza unbeatable strength =)
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What makes you say you think Chemerkin’s clean tech is ‘weak’?
