[quote]FightingScott wrote:
You can Behind the Neck Jerk more than you can Jerk. [/quote]
BHN simply keeps the bar in a straight path and when u lock out it is right where it needs to be.
to actionjeff:
the power/squat jerk demands an INSANE amount of flexibility. Most people who do it (including me, need some more upperback & hip flexibility) can’t have their hips as low as they would in a good split.
to test this simply do an overhead squat with a clean grip, you will see what I mean.
“There’s no way Rezazadeh or whoever would risk his health and compromise his Olympic training just to show he can deadlift or squat more weight than the current WRS, but you know he could jump into a suit and train a little (if he even needed to!) and just take them.!”
Siders would have beaten him badly.
I wouldn’t be surprised if someone designs an overhead press suit and push presses 800 lbs.
[quote]NeoSpartan wrote:
BHN simply keeps the bar in a straight path and when u lock out it is right where it needs to be.
[/quote]
A Behind-The-Neck Jerk puts the bar at a higher starting point and allows you to take a wider grip than you could with any other Jerk. This allows you to greatly reduce the distance that the bar needs to travel.
It’s also easier to put velocity on the bar. Which is harder: a front jump squat or a normal jump squat?
And if you did choose to do a squat-jerk, you would have a much easier time doing a Behind-the-Neck Squat-jerk than you would a normal squat-jerk since the wider grip you will be able to take will allow you to perform an easier overhead squat.
Behind-the-Neck Split Jerks and Squat Jerks are easier and allow you to put up heavier weights for almost every conceivable reason possible.
[quote]Galvatron wrote:
actionjeff wrote:
I’ll definitely take your word on Krastev then. The rack jerk sounds much more likely than the clean for him from what I have read and seen. Chemerkin does not surprise me. I remember seeing him lift for the first time at 260kg and thinking his clean form was weak, and having this reaffirmed watching other competitions. To have a weak clean form like that yet still be so competitive his sheer strength must have been incredible. I really would have liked to see him clean that 272.5 but I guess Allah gives Reza unbeatable strength =)
What makes you say you think Chemerkin’s clean tech is ‘weak’?[/quote]
I feel like an idiot critiquing him and am out of place doing so. I just meant relative to his competition his technique in the clean seemed weak. Specifically I saw a couple lifts where his left shoulder pulled higher/further back then his right on full extension, his knees came in on the recovery (which seems more common for lighter weight lifters than SHW), and he was slow bringing his elbows through despite pulling the bar more than high enough resulting in the bar resting on his neck/clavicle and not always both shoulders. That’s what I can remember offhand. I also remember thinking his technique was much better when he won in 1996. I wish my technique was even comparable to his and he is an absolute monster, I guess I just meant his cleans weren’t as fluid and consistent as those of his opposition in the (limited) clips I had seen of him competing.
[quote]NeoSpartan wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
You can Behind the Neck Jerk more than you can Jerk.
BHN simply keeps the bar in a straight path and when u lock out it is right where it needs to be.
to actionjeff:
the power/squat jerk demands an INSANE amount of flexibility. Most people who do it (including me, need some more upperback & hip flexibility) can’t have their hips as low as they would in a good split.
to test this simply do an overhead squat with a clean grip, you will see what I mean. [/quote]
I’ve tried this many times and see your point =)
would you say the value of the power/squat jerk for some of the lighter lifters is the superior position to impart power (pressing power even?) to the bar in the jerk, or is it all just their superior flexibility and balance in the squatted position? It seems like heavier lifters would benefit from the first more. There are always a lot of clips on youtube of strong man types muscle cleaning and push press/jerking a few hundred pounds overhead. Obviously many lifters squat jerk and Dimas power jerked and sometimes was pushed down into a half squat on the recovery so this is a legal lift if the barbell is locked out before “landing”, I don’t know the specific ruling or how it is judged, perhaps it is before the heels are refixed on the ground and judging discretion?
For an illegal pressed out jerk, when would the lifter press anyway? The only time I could think of would be if the bar was fixed overhead after the split/squat without being fully locked out and pressing power was used for this. In the jerk, once airborne the bar has momentum and a great deal of pressing power isn’t needed to fix it overhead if the receiving position is sufficiently low- hah maybe I answered my own question there.
Maybe I am overestimating the advantage of pressing power combined with the drive of the jerk or misunderstanding the mechanism that drives the jerk on the heaviest possible loads, but I suspect that the most effective method for a shw would be a push press where enormous explosive leg and hip drive is used similar to the jerk-but the heels remain planted on the ground for a firm base, and the barbell is then pressed out using enormous pressing power with a technique similar to the old standing Olympic press- more fun speculation
Interesting stuff
The difference in starting height is about an inch. If leg strength is adequate to get it to the top of your head then bar height isn’t really an issue, it’s speed under the bar that is key. As for grip width, have you not seen Dabaya’s jerk?
[quote]ninearms wrote:
The difference in starting height is about an inch. If leg strength is adequate to get it to the top of your head then bar height isn’t really an issue, it’s speed under the bar that is key. As for grip width, have you not seen Dabaya’s jerk?
LOL! Beautiful jerk and split. I love how he just lets the bar rest on his chest/neck and casually reaches out for just inside the collars. Youtube star patlamoi does the same but he pops it up at the end of the clean to keep the bar on his shoulders and fingertip jerks slightly narrower than Dabaya. I’ve never seen that technique before, that guy is awesome.
btw I think assuming leg strength being great enough to lift the barbell sufficiently high is faulty because different lifters with different builds and abilities, even elite, will have differences in the bar height they need to make a lift and I don’t see how it isn’t an important factor, if not always the limiting one. That being said I agree that the primary reason for more weight being moved of behind the neck jerk is that the bar travels in a straight line, and I think the bar height thing and extra inch or more is more relevant for strong man types who are power jerking from the neck.
www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/2007_09.html
watch the video for the “Quest for 300”
[quote]actionjeff wrote:
btw I think assuming leg strength being great enough to lift the barbell sufficiently high is faulty because different lifters with different builds and abilities, even elite, will have differences in the bar height they need to make a lift and I don’t see how it isn’t an important factor, if not always the limiting one.[/quote]
“Top of the head” was a generalisation somewhat. But, if the height of the bar in the bottom of the split is 5’9" how high do you need to drive the bar to fix it overhead?
5’9" + bar drop
The faster you are driving yourself under the bar the less bar drop you have, and thus the less bar height you need to fix the bar overhead.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
NeoSpartan wrote:
BHN simply keeps the bar in a straight path and when u lock out it is right where it needs to be.
A Behind-The-Neck Jerk puts the bar at a higher starting point and allows you to take a wider grip than you could with any other Jerk. This allows you to greatly reduce the distance that the bar needs to travel.
It’s also easier to put velocity on the bar. Which is harder: a front jump squat or a normal jump squat?
And if you did choose to do a squat-jerk, you would have a much easier time doing a Behind-the-Neck Squat-jerk than you would a normal squat-jerk since the wider grip you will be able to take will allow you to perform an easier overhead squat.
Behind-the-Neck Split Jerks and Squat Jerks are easier and allow you to put up heavier weights for almost every conceivable reason possible.[/quote]
Its just a matter of flexibility man. I remember I could not go as wide like you say, but now, its not a problem. All I need are 5-10 minutes of warm up front squats and jerks and I am ready.
Besides you can only go so wide until it becomes detrimental. That is why when OLifters jerk they don’t have full snatch grip, but something in between shoulder with and snatch with. The exact spot varies by lifter. Look at the guy at 1:03 in this video he almost uses a snatch grip, - YouTube
Also, the “Jerk” part all you do is WITH YOUR LEGS drive the bar up. The bar goes up to about your forehead. Then the extension of your arms DRIVE YOUR BODY DOWN.
To action jeff… about the split jerk and squat/power jerk.
Usually is lighter guys who do it because they are the most flexible. But at the end of the day it doesn’t matter really. World Records have been set with both styles so its really up to the lifter.
in my case, my best split jerk was 77kg, and that same DAY I did a 81kg power jerk. Thats why I do power jerks now (it was one of those, “duh” moments that day)
Also the bar travels in the straight line IN BOTH btn and in front. The difference is a slight “get under” shift your torso does when the weight is up front. - YouTube
Chemerkin C&J
[quote]www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/2007_09.html
watch the video for the “Quest for 300”[/quote]
That made me feel extremely weak.
None of those guys look capable of getting 200+ overhead, let alone three. I am humbled.
[quote]LUEshi wrote:
www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/2007_09.html
watch the video for the “Quest for 300”
That made me feel extremely weak.
None of those guys look capable of getting 200+ overhead, let alone three. I am humbled.[/quote]
They’ve got video of the tiny guy doing an Overhead Pistol Squat with 95lbs. On the same video they’ve got the guy who got 315 and the small guy 1-arm overhead squatting over 135, and the big guy overhead clean-grip squats 255. At the end of the video, he walks like 40 yards holding 225 overhead while dragging a tire that has 35lbs thrown inside.