Crossfit does not try to be all things to all folks in terms of preparing anyone for any specific sport or movement performance… it is GPP by nature.It is MEANT to be tweaked.to meet whatever performance goals called for. But in terms of GPP preparation it DOES offer virtually everything to all people.
I…in 6 months of crossfit(after 8 years of bodybuilding/powerlifting… with a major deteriation in athleticism and anaerobic endurance) went from 207 to 196 AND a dcrease in bodyfat of 27% to 13%… I look BIGGER than I was at 207 and have lost little if any strength in the major movements.
Cops
[quote]Kali wrote:
ZEB, I have been doing the crossfit workout of the day for a year and a half (3 days on 1 day off). I am also a cop and have been for 16 years. I was a team leader on a very high speed, full time, swat team. I now run a squad of 7 detectives in an urban area. I weigh 200 lbs and have approx 8 to 10% bodyfat. I also fight thai boxing, western boxing, shoot. I’m 42 years old. Over the year and a half, I have not lost any muscle, my deadlift, snatch, clean and jerk,and pullup # have gone up, my bench has decreased by 15 lbs. Short term muscular endurance and LSD endurance has skyrocketed. I have participated in well over 300 high rick search warrants, wrestled with countless bad guys, and intimidated a few people here and there; for what it’s worth Crossfit is my program and will continue to be my program of choice. Don’t tell me what it should do, or may do, I could tell you from experience what it does do. Ask Dan John what he thinks of Crossfit, I think you will find he is a supporter.[/quote]
Hey, glad it’s working for you. I think if you reread a few of my posts regarding crossfit you will see that I stated that it will indeed work for some people. The fact that you already weigh 200lbs. says quite a lot.
I think it’s a fine program for some, (if you cycle it). For those who already may have a weight problem, or are naturally mesomorphic types, it might be just the ticket in the short term. You are obviously on or the other of those types. You stated: “over a year and a half (on crossfit) I have not lost any muscle.” I hate to break this to you but if you trained on one of the programs that are found on T-Nation you would have gained muscle my friend! Again, the fact that you did not lose any muscle simply means that you were not already a thin person.
I also want to add that your extensive martial arts training (love thai boxing) has helped you immensely. You also stated that you do some “western boxing.” Again, I commend you.
Next time you are interested in giving credit to crossfit think again. They didn’t make you big boned, or mesomorphic. And they sure as heck didn’t teach you Thai boxing or western boxing.
I would guess that if you cycled crossfit (which you obviously like) with some serious weight training you would even make more progress.
Good Luck with whatever you do!
[quote]Knuckles14 wrote:
ZEB, are you a cop?? If not you are kind of misleading people as to how a cop should train because you have no background or experience in the field. Just an unsupported opinion. It would be like me trying to tell someone how to do Olympic lifts or how to train to compete as a bodybuilder, I don’t do either one therefore I leave that advice to those who are more experienced in it.[/quote]
No I’m not a cop but I play one on TV :). Okay seriously, I have trained many Police Officers and Sherriffs Deputies. And I have been doing this, on and off for about 18 years. And I would like to state without hesitation that I would not even consider putting them on a crossfit program. It’s a muscle waster my friend…yep!
[quote]rockky wrote:
Crossfit does not try to be all things to all folks in terms of preparing anyone for any specific sport or movement performance… it is GPP by nature.It is MEANT to be tweaked.to meet whatever performance goals called for. But in terms of GPP preparation it DOES offer virtually everything to all people.
I…in 6 months of crossfit(after 8 years of bodybuilding/powerlifting… with a major deteriation in athleticism and anaerobic endurance) went from 207 to 196 AND a dcrease in bodyfat of 27% to 13%… I look BIGGER than I was at 207 and have lost little if any strength in the major movements.
Cops [/quote]
I appreciate this post. This simply proves my point! Crossfit will indeed work well (in the short term) for those who need to lose weight. However, for light weights who need to gain much needed muscle, it’s a loser (a muscle loser that is).
[quote]ZEB wrote:
rockky wrote:
Crossfit does not try to be all things to all folks in terms of preparing anyone for any specific sport or movement performance… it is GPP by nature.It is MEANT to be tweaked.to meet whatever performance goals called for. But in terms of GPP preparation it DOES offer virtually everything to all people.
I…in 6 months of crossfit(after 8 years of bodybuilding/powerlifting… with a major deteriation in athleticism and anaerobic endurance) went from 207 to 196 AND a dcrease in bodyfat of 27% to 13%… I look BIGGER than I was at 207 and have lost little if any strength in the major movements.
Cops
I appreciate this post. This simply proves my point! Crossfit will indeed work well (in the short term) for those who need to lose weight. However, for light weights who need to gain much needed muscle, it’s a loser (a muscle loser that is).
[/quote]
No Zeb, it doesn’t prove your point. He’s gained nearly 20lbs of lean mass while reducing his bodyfat by 14%. Looks like it’s a muscle builder!
[quote]DonM wrote:
ZEB wrote:
rockky wrote:
Crossfit does not try to be all things to all folks in terms of preparing anyone for any specific sport or movement performance… it is GPP by nature.It is MEANT to be tweaked.to meet whatever performance goals called for. But in terms of GPP preparation it DOES offer virtually everything to all people.
I…in 6 months of crossfit(after 8 years of bodybuilding/powerlifting… with a major deteriation in athleticism and anaerobic endurance) went from 207 to 196 AND a dcrease in bodyfat of 27% to 13%… I look BIGGER than I was at 207 and have lost little if any strength in the major movements.
Cops
I appreciate this post. This simply proves my point! Crossfit will indeed work well (in the short term) for those who need to lose weight. However, for light weights who need to gain much needed muscle, it’s a loser (a muscle loser that is).
No Zeb, it doesn’t prove your point. He’s gained nearly 20lbs of lean mass while reducing his bodyfat by 14%. Looks like it’s a muscle builder![/quote]
No, I think it does prove my point! He “leaned out” with crossfit. He said he “looks bigger” at the lower body weight because he lost body fat.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
DonM wrote:
ZEB wrote:
rockky wrote:
Crossfit does not try to be all things to all folks in terms of preparing anyone for any specific sport or movement performance… it is GPP by nature.It is MEANT to be tweaked.to meet whatever performance goals called for. But in terms of GPP preparation it DOES offer virtually everything to all people.
I…in 6 months of crossfit(after 8 years of bodybuilding/powerlifting… with a major deteriation in athleticism and anaerobic endurance) went from 207 to 196 AND a dcrease in bodyfat of 27% to 13%… I look BIGGER than I was at 207 and have lost little if any strength in the major movements.
Cops
I appreciate this post. This simply proves my point! Crossfit will indeed work well (in the short term) for those who need to lose weight. However, for light weights who need to gain much needed muscle, it’s a loser (a muscle loser that is).
No Zeb, it doesn’t prove your point. He’s gained nearly 20lbs of lean mass while reducing his bodyfat by 14%. Looks like it’s a muscle builder!
No, I think it does prove my point! He “leaned out” with crossfit. He said he “looks bigger” at the lower body weight because he lost body fat.
[/quote]
Zeb, do the math. This case does not support your point. The man put on 20lbs of muscle in 6 months while he lost a large amount of bodyfat. Those are incredible results!
What is your point anyway? That the most successful program for cops is the one that gains you the most bodyweight, regardless of composition? Then I think some cops are on the right track - donuts, coffee and siting in their cruiser. Let go of this one Zeb, it makes you look ridiculous.
[quote]DonM wrote:
ZEB wrote:
DonM wrote:
ZEB wrote:
rockky wrote:
Crossfit does not try to be all things to all folks in terms of preparing anyone for any specific sport or movement performance… it is GPP by nature.It is MEANT to be tweaked.to meet whatever performance goals called for. But in terms of GPP preparation it DOES offer virtually everything to all people.
I…in 6 months of crossfit(after 8 years of bodybuilding/powerlifting… with a major deteriation in athleticism and anaerobic endurance) went from 207 to 196 AND a dcrease in bodyfat of 27% to 13%… I look BIGGER than I was at 207 and have lost little if any strength in the major movements.
Cops
I appreciate this post. This simply proves my point! Crossfit will indeed work well (in the short term) for those who need to lose weight. However, for light weights who need to gain much needed muscle, it’s a loser (a muscle loser that is).
No Zeb, it doesn’t prove your point. He’s gained nearly 20lbs of lean mass while reducing his bodyfat by 14%. Looks like it’s a muscle builder!
No, I think it does prove my point! He “leaned out” with crossfit. He said he “looks bigger” at the lower body weight because he lost body fat.
Zeb, do the math. This case does not support your point. The man put on 20lbs of muscle in 6 months while he lost a large amount of bodyfat. Those are incredible results!
What is your point anyway? That the most successful program for cops is the one that gains you the most bodyweight, regardless of composition? Then I think some cops are on the right track -donuts, coffee and siting in their cruiser. Let go of this one Zeb, it makes you look ridiculous.[/quote]
My point is that crossfit can help those who are overweight, or the typical mesomorph who wants to lose weight (or size). It will not help the ectomorphs who want to add needed muscle.
Furthermore, my point was (and is) to help kpd315 who originally posted. His query basically asked “what is a good way to train for street cops.”
There are many, many programs listed on T-Nation that would be great for a street cop who needs added size and power. All of them, with very few exceptions would be better than the workout of the day which crossfit promotes. I Think Kpd315 came to the right site to ask his question!
Certainly, I never stated that a diet of “donuts” is a good idea. Who’s looking silly now?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Who’s looking silly now?
[/quote]
Still you mate. Of course you have the right to your opinion regarding what type of training is good for cops. On the other hand, it is plain for everyone to see that your suggestion that this case “proves your point” was silly, since it does just the opposite.
well guys a street cop needs a burst of speed cause if you cant catch someone within two city blocks you wont catch them…cops need pulling power to pull over walls …but they also need command presence …and power to hold and move people to gain compliance with minimal force needed. they do not need long staying power cause most big city cops have back up there in less then a min. thats what I asked for a program to help with that …thanks thou for this great ideas this has been a great thread
[quote]DonM wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Who’s looking silly now?
Still you mate. Of course you have the right to your opinion regarding what type of training is good for cops. On the other hand, it is plain for everyone to see that your suggestion that this case “proves your point” was silly, since it does just the opposite.
[/quote]
LOL, go practice on the balance beam a while looks like you need to build some real muscle 
[quote]ZEB wrote:
DonM wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Who’s looking silly now?
Still you mate. Of course you have the right to your opinion regarding what type of training is good for cops. On the other hand, it is plain for everyone to see that your suggestion that this case “proves your point” was silly, since it does just the opposite.
LOL, go practice on the balance beam a while looks like you need to build some real muscle
[/quote]
How old are you?
Hey Don I’m kidding with you buddy…breath…in…out…Then go do a WOD
‘Zeb’
Just for your consideration:
…I rarely write but the few ‘discussions’ you’ve been involved in I’ve read seem to always grind down into ego wankfests.
The bottom line with good discussions between open minded adults is that there is usually some commonality and meaningful paradigm shifting in the ‘sides’/perspectives offered… and as long as your not DOGMATIC as hell finding that commonality enlightenes and enriches everyones perspective.
Soul search…consider.
Jesus, this thread went to hell.
Im still kind of with Zeb on this in that crossfit probably has too high a cardiovascular component for police work(at the expense of real power work). Perhaps I never had that much use for crossfit because I got plenty of cardio work in the gym wrestling, training jujitsu and training muay thai. Add crossfit to that and I would probably be overwhelmed and my strength and explosiveness would have sufferred.
If all your training was centered around crossfit, then that may be the way to go. However, every single cop in the country should seriously train to fight(boxing, jujitsu etc) and that in itself will seriously tax your recovery abilities.
All of this may be a moot point. Police work, at least in my experience, is about 5% high speed guys who take training their bodies, tactical skills and minds seriously. The rest are just floating around out there as tragedies waiting for a time and place.
Bottom line…if you care enough, train like a rounded athlete would train, learn to fight empty hand, get plenty of trigger time and don’t forget the nutrition and mental/psychological aspects of combat preparedness.
Seriously a cop need to :
1- Get a serious grip
2-Fast , run fast
3-Know how to fight
4- A killing posterior chain
5-Good rotator cuffs
6-Speed
7-More speed
8-Even more speed
My choice will be TTT( http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=27A239E13E8F564DA3387D9895A5D1CC.titan?id=476508 ) with a grip specialization
Jon
[quote]rockky wrote:
‘Zeb’
Just for your consideration:
…I rarely write but the few ‘discussions’ you’ve been involved in I’ve read seem to always grind down into ego wankfests.
The bottom line with good discussions between open minded adults is that there is usually some commonality and meaningful paradigm shifting in the ‘sides’/perspectives offered… and as long as your not DOGMATIC as hell finding that commonality enlightens and enriches everyones perspective.
Soul search…consider.
[/quote]
rockky:
mmmmmm…ahh…phew…(Just came out of meditation after soul searching)…Yep…T-Nation still has better programs for cops than crossfit!
point proven!
My post wasn’t about “crossfit vs T-Nation” (how silly)… it’s about the fact that there are excellent ideas/approaches in BOTH camps that could lead to multiple preparations effective for cops.
It takes a little discerning intelligence to find those grey areas and not get polarized into schoolyardish ‘us vs them’ rhetoric.
[quote]rockky wrote:
point proven!
My post wasn’t about “crossfit vs T-Nation” (how silly)… it’s about the fact that there are excellent ideas/approaches in BOTH camps that could lead to multiple preparations effective for cops.
It takes a little discerning intelligence to find those grey areas and not get polarized into schoolyardish ‘us vs them’ rhetoric. [/quote]
I agree so why are you being “silly” and “schoolyardish?” Looking for a fight? You found it right here, step right up LOL.
Okay all kidding aside, why don’t you wander on back near the beginning of this thread. There you will see that I stated crossfit would work well for someone who is overweight, or a natural mesomorph. Is that discerning enough for you?
On the other hand if you want a variety of quality programs that will work at every stage of development and for every body type, you will spend more time on the T-Nation web site.
It looks like you are spending quite a lot of time on this site, so congrats on that. Go to the search engine and check out some great programs for street cops. Perform them over a long period of time and let me know what you think.
Okay, it’s your turn
rockky:
You might want to check out “Copland Training” Part 1 & 2.
Crossfit doesn’t have anything like those two workouts on their site…nope.