Strength But No Size?

Training Beginners
1

My strength is goin through the roof, but unfortunately, my size isn’t. Is this normal? My thoughts are that right now i’m on a full body program to build strength, so thats what i’m doing and when i switch to a hypertrophy program, my size will come. I’m just making stuff up in my head to keep myself motivated because i have a lack for getting unmotivated because i’m not getting bigger but my strength is and i figured i’d get bigger too.

Last year i just half assed the whole gym scene, so now i’m sticking to it, I’m just having trouble sticking with this program because i’m getting my strength up, but i would like to see a bit of size. Will it happen when i go back to splits in 4 weeks?

I’m getting enough to eat btw, thats for sure.

The only thing getting bigger on me is my belly, so i think i might need to cut some cals.

2

I’m a firm believer that a 40/40/20 split macronutrient wise is a great place for beginners to start their dieting adventures. A 40/40/20 split is making sure 40% of your daily calories (bw * 14) come from protien, 40% of your daily calories come fro carbohydrate sources (good carbohydrates) and 20% of your daily caloric intake comes from fat.

So for example, someone who wants to gain weight weighs 160 lbs. 160 * 14 = 2240 (round that up or down depending on if you want to lose weight or gain weight… this is as far as I want you to change calorie numbers for now) comes out to 2300 calories. 40% of 2300 calories = 920 calories (divide that by 4 since 1 gram of protein and carbohydrate = 4 calories) and you come out with 230 grams of protein a day.

Since 40% is used for carbohydrate intake too you get 230 grams of carbohydrates daily too. 20% of 2300 calories = 460 calories (divide that by 9 since 1 gram of fat = 9 calories) and you come out with 51 grams of fat per day. So daily you need to consume 230 grams of protein/ 230 grams of carbs/ 50 grams of fat (just to make it easier).

Now in your head calculate how many hours you are awake daily. I am awake for 16 hours a day. Divide that by 2.5 (since you eat every 2-3 hours) and you get 6 meals daily. (It’s impossible to eat .4 a meal).
So we are going to take 230/230/50 (our 40/40/20 ratio) and divide each of those by 6. We come out with 38/38/8 - this is what we want each meal to be around macronutrient wise.

So if you can just eat a snack and can’t get the full thing in, then try to spread the macronutrients you couldn’t get in that meal throughout the rest for the day.
Now here is where it gets tricky for some, I am a firm believer that you should not take in carbohydrates directly before bed UNLESS UNLESS!!! You just got done training (some people can only workout late at night due to schedule conflicts).

Now i want you to take those 38 carbs from that last meal (keep the rest of protein and fat there) and spread them out into your 1st and 2nd meal. So meal #1 and meal #2 would come out to be 38/57/8 macronutrient ratio wise.

Take from somewhere else, learn to eat size will come and better strength gains. Wait a few months to see good progress

3

What’s your current training program?

4

My advice is to keep getting stronger and keep eating. Your body doesn’t grow in a linear fashion. There have been times when I thought “nothing was growing but my belly” for weeks at a time but when I look back I’ve continued to make progress year by year. Gaining muscle is a relatively slow process so the key is consistency.

I would ask how strong you are? Are you benching 315? Squatting 405? Deadlifting 495? Because I would bet that 95% of guys who are hitting those numbers have pretty damn good physiques. If your squat went from 225 to 275, yes that is good but that doesn’t mean you need to start “training for size.” It just means that you went from really weak to weak.

One thing I’d recommend would be to “get into” strength training and start pushing yourself to keep getting stronger. That can keep your motivation high and give you something to work for in the short term, because the mirror is very slow to show results. Set a short term goal of say, “Increase my bench press by 30 pounds” and just work towards that.

5

Many people just don’t eat enough, even if they think they do. But if you really are already gaining body fat, then you probably just need to stronger, then stronger still. Eventually your body will change.

Stuart McRobert says that you need around a 25% strength increase for a noticeable increase in muscle size and a 50% increase for a significant increase. Also remember that some set/rep formats MAY be less likely to result in size increases than others, though that’s very debatable.

6

For a short answer I think that in order to put on muscle instead of strength I would use 15 reps for your exercises, only do olympic squats (not power squats) for reps of 15 breathing style, and do Romanian Deadlifts instead of deadlifts for reps of 15 as well. Upper body wise I think the best way to add mass is 12 rep Dumbbell presses of any sort and Dumbbell Rows for 15 reps.

7

[quote]k_man101 wrote:
My strength is goin through the roof, but unfortunately, my size isn’t. Is this normal? My thoughts are that right now i’m on a full body program to build strength, so thats what i’m doing and when i switch to a hypertrophy program, my size will come. I’m just making stuff up in my head to keep myself motivated because i have a lack for getting unmotivated because i’m not getting bigger but my strength is and i figured i’d get bigger too.

Last year i just half assed the whole gym scene, so now i’m sticking to it, I’m just having trouble sticking with this program because i’m getting my strength up, but i would like to see a bit of size. Will it happen when i go back to splits in 4 weeks?

I’m getting enough to eat btw, thats for sure.

The only thing getting bigger on me is my belly, so i think i might need to cut some cals.[/quote]

Can we see an actual workout layout? Otherwise it’s really hard for us to tell where your program may be lacking.

Also, you say you are eating enough, are you absolutely sure? Do you keep a food log? How clean is your diet? How often are you gaining weight? Have you done a body fat analysis lately, and if so how does it compare to your body fat % prior to starting this current program?

If you don’t know the answers to the above questions, then perhaps it’s time to start actually getting serious.

Honestly, how are you going to know if you’re eating enough (and what you’re eating) on a daily/weekly/monthly basis if you’re not actually keeping track?

How are you going to know if you’re making progress in terms of weight (and what kind of weight you are gaining) if you’re not tracking it by way of body weight and body fat analysis?

Basically without knowing these things you’re just taking a wild shot in the dark and hoping that it lands on the target.

You need to set specific goals and then implement specific plans to go about achieving those goals. Then, you must hold yourself accountable for sticking to those plans, or modifying them if they aren’t getting you further down the path towards those goals.

There are quite a few good workout and nutrition articles on this site alone. I suggest that you read all of the ones by Berardi that you can, and get yourself on a program that is specifically geared towards which ever goal it is that you are striving for in terms of training (whether it be strength, size, or fat loss).

Good luck and good training,

Sentoguy

8

My routine right now is a 3 day full body. On at least 1 or 2 off days i’ll go in and run and do some abs and lots of stretching.

My routine consist of:

Squats 5x3
deadlifts 8x2 (can’t use chalk, so i have trouble keeping the bar in my hands, so i resorted to this set)
bench press 4x3
military press 3x4
bent rows 4x5
overhead shrugs 3x3

My weight varies a lot on all my lifts. I’ve never maxed on anything except when i first started a year and a half ago and thats when my lifts were tiny.

This is the most i’ve done on any of these lifts.

squat 335 4x5
bench 145 4x2
military 135 3x4
deads 245 5x5
bent rows 115 3x4

I’m 5’5 149 btw.

Thats the most i’ve ever done on any of those lifts and thats the rep set. I’ve never maxed and i plan on it by the end of this program.

My diet on the other hand is pretty good (i think).

Breakfast
4-5 eggs
1 slice wheat bread
banana
homemade weight gainer shake

I snack on wheat thins till lunch time. Then at lunch i eat:
2 sandwiches
2 cups of milk
16oz water
fruit
nature valley bar

Then after school I eat a can of chicken with some fruit and/or a homemade weight gainer shake. Then I go to the gym around 7 and then i come home and eat dinner which normally is chicken, pasta, steak, salad, fruit, water, veggies, hamburger, any of those. My mom is pretty good about cooking that stuff with dinner and if she doesn’t I normally make chicken w/some greens and a protein shake. Then bed.

I’ve had trouble eating this past week or so because i’m taking adderal again and if you know anything about it, it takes your appetite away, so i’m forcing food down the best i can.

We did bf% measures in gym class last year with calibers and my bf came out to about 9%. That was quite a few months ago, so its probably changed and i have no clue what it is right now.

Did i answer all questions asked?

9

You said after school, plus your height and strength levels I think it’s safe to assume your young.

In general for most of the people I’ve ever seen you will get stronger before you get bigger, even more so at a young age.

your routine is better for strength then gaining muscle.

10

I built it more towards a strength program, but i figured i would see some size gains as well. Yes i’m what everyone can consider young, i’m only 17.

11

Hi k_man,

Thanks, that’s a good start.

The first thing that jumped out at me about your lifting routine is that you are doing a very low volume of work. In fact, the most total repetitions of any one exercise that you’re doing is 20 (for bent rows). That’s too low a volume to cause size gains.

My advice would be to read CW’s “set/rep bible” article:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=651322&cr=

Notice that Waterbury recommends getting in a total of 24-50 total reps if the goal is hypertrophy. Simply put, your volume is too low to cause size gains. Simply do more sets of your exercises until you get to at least 24 total reps and see if that doesn’t help.

Now, as far as your food intake goes, your sample diet was “iffy” at best. Really the only meals that you seemed to know exactly were breakfast and lunch. That’s a good start, but you’re going to need to get a lot more precise than that.

The reason you need to get more precise is that, if I were to ask you how many calories you are eating per day, you wouldn’t know (and probably wouldn’t even be close if you took a guess).

Simply put, if you’re not eating enough calories, then no program is going to put significant size on you, no matter how well planned out it is.

So, my advice is to start a food journal (you’re young and doing this now will really help you in the long run). In it write down exactly what you are eating each and every day. And when I say exactly, I mean exactly.

Now, after a couple weeks tally up everything that you eat during each day and figure out on average how much you’ve been eating. My guess is that it will be light years away from your actual caloric requirements.

You can calculate you caloric needs here:

johnberardi.com/updates/july262002/na_masscalculator.htm

There are also a bunch of sites on the web where you can punch in what and how much of each food item you are eating and can figure out how much you’re actually eating.

Here is one:

http://www.nutritiondata.com/

Perhaps someone knows or can point you to a better one, if so use that one.

Once again, my guess is that you aren’t eating nearly enough to gain muscle mass.

Hope this helps,

Sentoguy

12

Your squat number is was out of proportion with the rest of your lifts but that’s not what you are asking about.

It’s diet. 95% at least of people fail to gain size because they are either unaware of how much they need to eat to gain or unwilling. A 17 year old weight training male is going to need to be shoveling the protein and other foods in to combat the fast metabolism.

It seems like you are eating 4 protein meals a day so try adding 1-2 more meals maybe after dinner and between your after school meal and the gym. I don’t know your schedule but I got out of high school around 2 oclock so even if you are eating at 3 or so that’s a long time to go without fuel if you wait till you eat dinner to eat again.

Keep getting stronger in the gym and pounding down food religiously and you’ll find the gains you want.

13

Well I know for a fact that for breakfest i get 1100 or more or around there. Yes, its true. I did the math almost 10 times. Thats between the food and the shake. My weight gainer alone is 800 cals. At lunch just eatting what I bring for lunch is about 900 cals, then i eat other stuff people don’t finish.

I drink the weight gainer 2 times a day. In the morning and before bed. I drink just plain protein after school. I’ve counted before, not exaclty the number of cals but i round down so i don’t go over and the average i came out to was around 3400. I can’t remember how many carbs and grams of protein i got, i have it written down somewhere around here, but when i find it, i’ll post it.

So do yall think i should eat more or i should go back and count again? I count my cals at dinner time if what i’m eatting has the cals/pro/carbs on it, most of the time my meat doesn’t, cause my parents get it from a private deli who wraps it in that white paper. Most of the time i try and get the nutrient stuff on line and i try and get anywhere from 800-1400 cals at dinner. Depends on what mom made.

My main goal is to eat 2 meals of 500-800 cals and 3 meals of 1000 cals plus. I count but i never write anything down.

14

I forgot something. Yeah, i know my squat is way out of proportion, if anything that i don’t have trouble on is legs. They’re my favorite thing to work. I love squats. I train balls to wall on squats, the only reason my dead is so low is because i do squats and right after i do deads, so i’m kinda worn out a bit.

But squats is my favorite thing to do in the gym and my legs are getting considerably stronger, i went atg with 245 and it was absolutely nothin.

You think my problem with not being able to lift that much is because i do squats and deads first and i go balls to the wall on both, so this is preventing me from being able to do heavier weight on my other lifts which is in turn stopping me from getting that size i want?

15

If I were you and only 17, I would eat as much as you want. Eat like a pig, and keep lifting what you are doing, but add sets, or reps or both.

Probably get beaten up for saying this, but at 17 I don’t think you have to worry about cholesterol etc. You are 17 and want to get big. For three years eat a lot of meat, drink milk a lot of milk, and do some higher reps.

For some people size doesn’t come easy so just become a barbarian for a while.

16

I’d bring nuts to class with and snack on those for extra cals. You’re going to want to get a steady stream of cals/protein throughout the day every couple hours. I personally like to bring a shake with me wherever I’m going. I always throw in a few TBSPs of olive oil too.

Those will normally give me a solid 600-700 cals, depending on how much olive oil I can stomach in my shake at a given point in time. I also read someone post that you should leave a shake in your bathroom for when you get up at night to take a piss. I just started doing that I wondered why I hadn’t been doing it before. Olive oil in those too.

I’ve had the best success with my diet by building it as I go, rather than trying to revamp the whole thing at once. Was doing about 4000 cals a while ago, then, over time, I’ve been adding little things throughout the day, such as switching out chicken for some fatty cuts of beef, that have slowly brought me up in the 5000 cal range easy.

17

[quote]k_man101 wrote:
Well I know for a fact that for breakfest i get 1100 or more or around there. Yes, its true. I did the math almost 10 times. Thats between the food and the shake. My weight gainer alone is 800 cals. At lunch just eatting what I bring for lunch is about 900 cals, then i eat other stuff people don’t finish.

I drink the weight gainer 2 times a day. In the morning and before bed. I drink just plain protein after school. I’ve counted before, not exaclty the number of cals but i round down so i don’t go over and the average i came out to was around 3400. I can’t remember how many carbs and grams of protein i got, i have it written down somewhere around here, but when i find it, i’ll post it.

So do yall think i should eat more or i should go back and count again? I count my cals at dinner time if what i’m eatting has the cals/pro/carbs on it, most of the time my meat doesn’t, cause my parents get it from a private deli who wraps it in that white paper. Most of the time i try and get the nutrient stuff on line and i try and get anywhere from 800-1400 cals at dinner. Depends on what mom made.

My main goal is to eat 2 meals of 500-800 cals and 3 meals of 1000 cals plus. I count but i never write anything down. [/quote]

Hi k_man,

It’s a good start that you try to count your calories, but seriously, there is no substitute for actually writing everything down. Keeping a food journal seems like a pain in the neck when you first do it, but it’ll pay off in the long run (same as a workout log).

Also, regardless of whether or not your calculations are accurate, you’re still not gaining weight on that many calories. So, the obvious answer is that you need to eat more.

Now, what I’d suggest doing is to go figure out what your theoretical caloric needs are using the calorie calculator I posted earlier. Then, follow the steps in this article to slowly build up your caloric intake until you start gaining.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459431&cr=

The first adjustment is to add 250 kcals of carbs to your peri (during) and post (after) workout nutrition. Or, in your case, drink a carb drink that contains 250 kcals (there are quite a few decent ones out there, and you can even pick one up from the Biotest store on this site).

You’ll need to actually read the article for the others.

Good training,

Sentoguy