I did offer comments although my comments were funnier than other folks’ comments. Whats your degree in? How much experience do you have? If you are 18 like somebody said, then unless you are Doogie Howser, wait you probably dont know who that is, you dont have a degree yet. And you have only been doing “this” for 2/3 of a year. You are in no position to tell anybody anything. I have a degree in Exercise Science. I was actually Exercise Science student of the year in 99-00 (wahoo for me!). I did offer rebuttals to some of the things you said. Other things you said made no sense so I thought they spoke for themselves. Ill give you a mulligan on this one. But no more stupid comments from you. Can we hear about your training program? There may be some things in there that may make me scream “Stop the Insanity” Susan Powter style. You probably dont know her either.
Neil is right on his issue with the saturated fats (take note of the saturated type fats he recommends)
I don’t think he is suggesting to eliminate the ones we all know are decent healthy fats, but that an increased consumption of the good saturates (most of which happen to be MCT’s) are in order.
Vain
John Berardi has written on the subject of fat ratios in the past. His reccomendation for those on a mass building diet was 1/3 saturated fat, 1/3 polyunsaturated (omega 3 and omega 6), and 1/3 monounsaturated fat (omega 9). He also espouses a specific ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 fatty acids, 1:1 I believe.
I understand the logic behind reducing polyunsaturated fats in the diet, and I think this is great advice to the general public. They are even teaching this now in medical school (my school at least) in the little bit of nutrition they teach us (I’m a medical student). There is a certain level of polyunsaturates that is essential to have (hence essential fatty acids). That is why many t-men (and t-vixens) supplement their diets with flaxseed oil in order to get linoleic and linolenic acids. We also supplement our diets with fish oil in order to obtain EPA and DHA. Again these are omega-3 (polyunsaturated) fatty acids. Do some trainers get too much of these fatty acids? Yes. That is why there has been an emphasis on the forums lately of focusing on getting the right amount of poly’s and getting a good dose of mono’s to fill out the fat requirements. I agree that some people overdo the flaxseed oil.
Our difference of opinions comes in the role of saturated fats vs. monounsaturated fats. Your belief seems to be that the bare minimum of poly’s needs to be met and the remainder of the fat in the diet should come from animal sources (hence large amounts of saturated fat). My belief is that all 3 types have their place. The key to health is not to deemphasize any one nutrient but to achieve balance. That is why I really like John Berardi’s 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 reccomendation.
I would also be very careful about using anthropologic data to prove dietary points. There is always many more factors effecting outcomes than what is just readily seen on the surface. You could make a good argument for saturated fats based on an African tribe, I could make a good argument for monounsaturated fats based on the Greek paradox.
I think the biggest problem people had was not so much your nutritional beliefs as much as your attitude about trying to convert everyone. Some of what you said was complete bunk (eg. the allergy thing, get a good book on immunology and read up) but a lot of it had a kernal of truth to it.
For what it’s worth I have an Exercise Science degree also, from a school on the NSCA approved list no less.
Kudo’s to the susan Powter reference. This woman was a fat tub of lard that wouldn’t get a look from a starving cannobal. She parlayed that into a successful, albeit short career. So the take home message is…Guys, dump your fat chick girlfriends if you really want them to be successful and happy.
MD2006,
I found some info on Stephen Barrett, and also that he is not actually a licensed doctor.
http://www.quackpotwatch.org/default.htm
He seems to be against anything that doesn’t involve drugs, surgery, or some sort of radiation.
Looks like he probably gets paid by you-know-who to do what he does.
“I would also be very careful about using anthropologic data to prove dietary points. There is always many more factors effecting outcomes than what is just readily seen on the surface. You could make a good argument for saturated fats based on an African tribe, I could make a good argument for monounsaturated fats based on the Greek paradox.”
But there are far less variables when looking at diets and health of live traditional cultures than medical studies that are testing things like diet.
Neil
Goldberg,
“I did offer rebuttals to some of the things you said.”
Like this?
“Neil, you are an idiot. First you say we should eat raw eggs. That will get you exactly where i have been for the past week. On the great throne of the porcelain gods. And second of all, you think coconut oil is a better source of fat than fish and flax oil. Ill say it one more time. You are an idiot. I would not call you an idiot except you came on here guns blazing and you are wrong. Big time wrong about two very important things.”
Oh wait, that can’t be it. How about this?
“I bet Seminole Chick and ol Neil Diamond, uh, I mean NeilG go to those websites that say that aliens run the planet and that all our leaders report to the aliens.”
No…hmm, how about this?
“And i just added this one on for fun. Youve been training 2/3 of a year and have less than 50 posts under your belt and you come on here trying to tell everybody that they are dead wrong about everything. Guess what? You dont know shit. Well you might know shit if you happen to eat a salmonella laced egg. You have no business telling anybody anything. More than likely this is just a fad for you and in a year you will be back to collecting stamps or whatever it was you did before you started “bodybuilding”. hahahhahahaha. Yall gotta admit that was funny. collecting stamps. hahahhaa.”
No no. Something must be wrong here. Aha, this must be it:
“Basing it on the fact that uncooked eggs and chicken may contain salmonella. If you want to play russian roulette with your small intestines and colon go right ahead. I dont give a shit either way.”
Aha, that’s gotta be it. You based it on a probability that you did not know.
This was your rebuttle?
BTW, I’m doing meltdown training right now. It’s fun. I’m glad to get back into heavy olympic lifts.
Neil
Just because he let his medical license lapse does not mean that he is not a Doctor, he did earn an M.D. which is a doctorate degree, so he can always call himself doctor regardless of licensure or board certification. Since he is no longer involved in patient care there is no reason for him to have a state medical license. For your information first year medical residents also do not have state medical licenses because they have not yet taken the USMLE Step 3, but that does not make them not doctors. You are going to have to do better than a website that is using half-truths such as the medical license thing to discredit the man.
Now having said that I think the Quackwatch site is pretty quick to dismiss a lot of things that might have merit. I have a very real interest in alternative medicine, and I think there are probably some great therapies that will come from the realms of alternative medicine. The problem I have is with people that make lots of unsubstantiated claims and will not put their methods up to true research so that they can be validated or debunked. The key for alternative medicine to become better accepted by the medical community (ie the “evil” AMA of which I am a student member) is for them to do research and generally become more scientific in their methods. The NIH is actually doing this right now, as they have a whole division devoted to researching alternative and complementary medicine.
Gotta give Neil props for sticking to his guns on this thread.
Most people would have tucked tail and run by now after all of those flames.
NeilG, one thing that I have a question about is the “allergy” deal as it relates to cultures such as the Inuut.
So, because the Inuut eat such a non varied diet, are you saying they also have tons of allergies?
I read this thread while scarfing away half a kilo (post-cooked) of Teriyaki venison. Mmm… Deer. You just cook up thin slices in a wok, put it in a bowl, smother in Teriyaki, and eat it like cereal. Ohhh good…
Is it possible make that much of your fat percentage saturated fat? What DUUUU FUUUUU!!! Why are people even responding to this post? It should be in the Internet Hall of Shame.
I don’t think aboriginal people have vast knowledge about food. I do think they have a limited source of it and the most limited thing, especially in hunter gatherers or herders, is sugars.
We all know you can’t live on protein alone but protein and fat will keep you running pretty well. I’m sure the aboriginals figured this right out before starving to death eating just the lean part of the animal.
The proof of this lack of vast knowledge comes when the aboriginals encounter a western diet. They have the same reaction to it that we do. If they really “knew” so much they’d run back into the jungle to save their arteries.
You had it right the first time Neil Diamond. you dont want to eat raw eggs because you can get salmonella. Maybe a course in reading comprehension may help here. Hows this Neil Diamond? You do what you want and and ill do what I want. You can eat tubs of coconut oil for all i care. Is coconut oil solid at room temperature? Heres my take. If coconut oil was better than flax oil then why has flax oil been rammed down our throats since Dan Duchaine (do you know who that is)? Why not recommmend coconut oil?
Am I supposed to be impressed that you are doing Meltdown and that you like Olympic Lifts? I hate sound old, but son i was counting protein, fat, and carbs and doing powercleans when you were still in elementary school. You have a lot to learn bud. And as a Westside practitioner, i am not real high on olympic lifts anyway. Speed and power can be developed better in other ways.
Antiliberal,
"NeilG, one thing that I have a question about is the “allergy” deal as it relates to cultures such as the Inuut.
So, because the Inuut eat such a non varied diet, are you saying they also have tons of allergies?"
No, they do not have tons of allergies. The reason behind this is that both the Inuit and Masai consumed a great deal of their food raw, which is much easier to digest (because of the enzyme content) and also provides more nutrients. One example is the Inuits eating raw liver, because cooking it detroys the vitamin C and destroys other important nutrients, such as biotin.
The Masai would drink lots of raw milk and fresh blood, not to mention raw meats as well (they also would eat raw liver).
Most (I say this because I don’t want to be absolute here) cultures have a great deal of raw foods in their diet that prevent the allergies.
I didn’t think this would be worth mentioning because people freak out enough about raw eggs, let alone raw meat. So that’s why variation is key (one of many reasons).
Hope this is what you were looking for…
Neil
Spencer,
“Is it possible make that much of your fat percentage saturated fat? What DUUUU FUUUUU!!! Why are people even responding to this post? It should be in the Internet Hall of Shame.”
The 80% calories from fat is total fat, not saturated.
Yes, it is possible to get this much fat when you eat blubber. Fat was prized in traditional cultures, some more than others. They ate the fat on purpose, and it is perfered over lean meat.
Neil
NeilG, thanks for this entertaining thread! I would suggest you start reading the back issues of T-Mag.
SteelyEyes, low carb pancakes?!
Good lord, you still don’t know what a freaking allergy is, do you?
You should do standup…really.
Don’t you think that if you had a valid point or two, that SOMEBODY would come out and agree with you or your line of “reasoning”? Seriously, think about that for just a second. This isn’t a collection of fools that is disagreeing with you.
You’re open-minded enough to believe these things you’re saying. Now, be open-minded enough to realize that you might be wrong about this too.
And I want to know one thing, and this is NOT meant to embarass, but what is your level of education thus far and what are your qualifications to back your assertions?
Yep. Adkins pancake mix. No soy in it like some other brands. It’s made of low gluten wheat and maize flour. I eat 2 servings and it ends up being 160 calories, 26 gm protein, 12 gm carbs, and 3 gm. fat. That’s before the ground flax gets added. They make zero carb syrup too.
It’s a great change from eggs. One or two days a week on the morning before a weight workout they are good.
DocT,
Just wondering, but why did the location under your name change from Malaysia to Holland? Just curious.
I won’t dignify your questions with a response until you actually give something worth responding to.
I recently got into an arguement with a guy who treats people with certain diseases, and he started to use the “what is your level of education before we move on?” Guess what? I told him to quit trying to change topics and address the subject at hand. He didn’t. He looked like an idiot. He tried to use education as a crutch because he knew he had more than me. But that didn’t make him right.
I’m not saying that is the case with you, of course. I’m just saying I’m wary of these types of questions.
Neil