Steroids: Why or Why Not?

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Also, I know it is unintentional and not a reflection of the posters, but I had a great deal of chuckles reading through this and seeing that people would prefer to be under the supervision of a doctor for taking steroids. I know you have been raised all your life to believe doctors know everything about the human body and are pretty much infallible as far as that is concerned, but the limited knowledge doctors actually have about the body’s hormone system, much less influencing that through AAS, would truly scare you…

[/quote]

So, so, so true.[/quote]

I’m a chemistry major, and I’ve seriously considered being an Endocrinologist for this reason alone. Nothing bother’s me more than when people refuse to think critically, and for themselves because “they’re a doctor.”

Wouldn’t a doctor refer you to a specialist? That’s how it works for everything else… I see orthopedist for injuries, opthalmologist for eyes, dermatologist for the occasional ring worm. Don’t see why you wouldn’t be referred to an endocrinologist for hormones if steroids were legalized. sorry to interrupt doctor bashing, please continue…

[quote]Kakarat wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Also, I know it is unintentional and not a reflection of the posters, but I had a great deal of chuckles reading through this and seeing that people would prefer to be under the supervision of a doctor for taking steroids. I know you have been raised all your life to believe doctors know everything about the human body and are pretty much infallible as far as that is concerned, but the limited knowledge doctors actually have about the body’s hormone system, much less influencing that through AAS, would truly scare you…

[/quote]

So, so, so true.[/quote]

I’m a chemistry major, and I’ve seriously considered being an Endocrinologist for this reason alone. Nothing bother’s me more than when people refuse to think critically, and for themselves because “they’re a doctor.”[/quote]

Yeah, doctors are stupid. They never help anybody…

People here love to hate on allopaths. ElevenMag would be proud

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]bam7196 wrote:

[quote]Kakarat wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Also, I know it is unintentional and not a reflection of the posters, but I had a great deal of chuckles reading through this and seeing that people would prefer to be under the supervision of a doctor for taking steroids. I know you have been raised all your life to believe doctors know everything about the human body and are pretty much infallible as far as that is concerned, but the limited knowledge doctors actually have about the body’s hormone system, much less influencing that through AAS, would truly scare you…

[/quote]

So, so, so true.[/quote]

I’m a chemistry major, and I’ve seriously considered being an Endocrinologist for this reason alone. Nothing bother’s me more than when people refuse to think critically, and for themselves because “they’re a doctor.”[/quote]

Yeah, doctors are stupid. They never help anybody…

People here love to hate on allopaths. ElevenMag would be proud
[/quote]

Doctors generally are not stupid. Some of them however don’t have what it takes when it comes to endocrinology.

How 'bout them Noles?[/quote]

I agree with both those statements (as well as the third). Chop-Chop

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
Wouldn’t a doctor refer you to a specialist? That’s how it works for everything else… I see orthopedist for injuries, opthalmologist for eyes, dermatologist for the occasional ring worm. Don’t see why you wouldn’t be referred to an endocrinologist for hormones if steroids were legalized. sorry to interrupt doctor bashing, please continue…[/quote]

Unfortunately, endos are about the worst for this kind of stuff…unless you are on your death bed or at imminent risk of dying, endos are absolutely positively useless…they are in the business of saving lives, not improving (and certainly not optimizing) health.

[quote]Kakarat wrote:

I’m a chemistry major, and I’ve seriously considered being an Endocrinologist for this reason alone. Nothing bother’s me more than when people refuse to think critically, and for themselves because “they’re a doctor.”[/quote]

Don’t take the electro shock therapy that it seems they are all required to undergo, and you should be fine. stay true to yourself.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
Wouldn’t a doctor refer you to a specialist? That’s how it works for everything else… I see orthopedist for injuries, opthalmologist for eyes, dermatologist for the occasional ring worm. Don’t see why you wouldn’t be referred to an endocrinologist for hormones if steroids were legalized. sorry to interrupt doctor bashing, please continue…[/quote]

Unfortunately, endos are about the worst for this kind of stuff…unless you are on your death bed or at imminent risk of dying, endos are absolutely positively useless…they are in the business of saving lives, not improving (and certainly not optimizing) health.
[/quote]

Hahahahahaha. Yeah man, tell that to someone with diabetes or fertility issues or hypothyroidism, or hypopituitarism. Youre pretty fast and loose with these statements

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Kakarat wrote:

I’m a chemistry major, and I’ve seriously considered being an Endocrinologist for this reason alone. Nothing bother’s me more than when people refuse to think critically, and for themselves because “they’re a doctor.”[/quote]

Don’t take the electro shock therapy that it seems they are all required to undergo, and you should be fine. stay true to yourself.
[/quote]

You and everyone you know should probably stay away from anyone with the suffix MD or DO attached to their name. This electroshock stuff sounds serious. Be real man, if someone you cared about was seriously ill you wouldn’t take them to see a licensed professional? Do you not believe in ventilators or ACE Inhibitors either?

[quote]bam7196 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
Wouldn’t a doctor refer you to a specialist? That’s how it works for everything else… I see orthopedist for injuries, opthalmologist for eyes, dermatologist for the occasional ring worm. Don’t see why you wouldn’t be referred to an endocrinologist for hormones if steroids were legalized. sorry to interrupt doctor bashing, please continue…[/quote]

Unfortunately, endos are about the worst for this kind of stuff…unless you are on your death bed or at imminent risk of dying, endos are absolutely positively useless…they are in the business of saving lives, not improving (and certainly not optimizing) health.
[/quote]

Hahahahahaha. Yeah man, tell that to someone with diabetes or fertility issues or hypothyroidism, or hypopituitarism. Youre pretty fast and loose with these statements[/quote]

Funny you mention hypothyroidism, which is one of most missed diagnosis out there…even most endos do not follow the endroconological society’s recommendations on diagnosing based on symptoms associated with a TSH > 3. I have had two endos state that you wont have hypo symptoms unless your TSH is in the 50’s (!). That is 15x the range established by THEIR society. But they are very eager to lay a diagnosis of depression on you.

Yeah, they are great!

Unless you are at the far end of the spectrum, you will not find much work with endos. You better hope you don’t have hypogonadism!

Guys, didn’t you know you could get the goods at Sears? Sears never lets you down.

http://www.sears.com/swesspharma-labs-dianabol-dbol-legal-steroid-anabolic-supplement-90-capsules/p-SPM5846820307

What is this nonsense, how does one post a picture on this dastardly forum? This is like driving on the left side of the road

…but Sears has gotchu

I think if I can find a reliable source I will someday. When I started at 16 (19 now) I was completely against it, I wanted to see what my body could get to naturally just because that was a goal of mine ever since I was a little kid. After 2 years of lifting I had good progress and was happy with the way I was going. Then I had some serious injuries and lost all of my progress.

I then realized I won’t have my young body forever, why waste multiple years trying to achieve the physique I’ve always wanted when life and my own body (injuries) will likely get in my way and prevent me from getting there. The only other reason i wouldn’t use is because the nature of my wrist injury, im not sure how stable/strong it will be and if I start piling on weight too fast (on my lifts, not body) I honestly don’t know how well my ligaments and connective tissue will handle rapid increases in the loads applied to it. We’ll see how it heals.

Basically not for a while if I do, but it’s something im interested in.

[quote]bam7196 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
Wouldn’t a doctor refer you to a specialist? That’s how it works for everything else… I see orthopedist for injuries, opthalmologist for eyes, dermatologist for the occasional ring worm. Don’t see why you wouldn’t be referred to an endocrinologist for hormones if steroids were legalized. sorry to interrupt doctor bashing, please continue…[/quote]

Unfortunately, endos are about the worst for this kind of stuff…unless you are on your death bed or at imminent risk of dying, endos are absolutely positively useless…they are in the business of saving lives, not improving (and certainly not optimizing) health.
[/quote]

Hahahahahaha. Yeah man, tell that to someone with diabetes or fertility issues or hypothyroidism, or hypopituitarism. Youre pretty fast and loose with these statements[/quote]

Here is a good one:

[quote]
fastersteve wrote:
Haha…My doc originally prescribed 200mg/every 2 weeks then called me and said to do 400mg/EOW when my test came back at 295 2 weeks after my last shot. [/quote]

This is in reference to Testosterone Cypionate shots. Displays absolutely no understanding of the half lives of the drugs in question (which is 1 week).

[quote]
fastersteve wrote:
“Your testosterone levels are WAY too high (799), we need to cut your dose in half. Why are you even on T shots?”

Because my test came back at 202… [/quote]

So he got a diagnosis of hypogonadism from an endo, raised his T levels to upper 75% of the range (which is established by sick patients) but endo wants him at the bottom of the range for no apparent reason? Clueless

[quote]
“What kind of protein powder are you taking? Some have been shown to shut down testicular function.” [/quote]

Lulz

[quote]
“You can’t be taking shots twice a week, that’s far too much testosterone. I think this is a really bad idea, you need to call me immediately.”

This is in response to a message I left with one of the front desk workers where I stated, at least 3 times, that I was taking 50mg/shot, 2 shots/wk… I think he thinks that I’m doing 200mg/shot, 2 shots/wk. [/quote]

Clueless and apparently unaware that pins hold LESS than the prescribed volume and couldnt comprehend the exact same weekly dose was being administered, just in more frequent increments.

[quote]
my endo. doc. said that my injection of test. won’t show up in my blood work for at least 7 days, i said i think i read where it will show up in one day, he says stop reading on those steriod forums. [/quote]

Again, these guys just seem to have no comprehension of half lives

[quote]
My endo in July 2010: Well your T is fine (372) and even though your E2 is a little high (48) it would have to be at least double that before you started seeing any symptoms…have you ever thought of losing weight? That would help your powerlifting, because fat doesn’t lift the weight.

Me: Well doc, if you remember correctly, my major symptom when I came in was that I can’t gain muscle and can’t lose fat…

Endo: Oh yes, well, I think you have depression…take this scrript for Wellbutrin and you’ll be fine…

6 months later

Diagnosis: Testicular Cancer [/quote]

That was actually my endo.

[quote]
Her: Who thought of this great idea to get thyroid tests?
Me: I want to check if I am dosing correctly or I need to adjust.
Her: Thyroid issues is what women have you are male. [/quote]

Good thing they are treating that hyprothyroidism huh!

[quote]
Another reason he gave for such a protocol was that I would not become resistant to the T injections over time. An validity to that?

—this was a doctor’s reasoning for giving injections once every 2 weeks instead of more frequently [/quote]


And these are just some of the “success stories” we have managed to collect in the TRT forum with 200 or so posters. Perhaps we just got the lucky ones lol

Thinking back, I can’t recall a SINGLE thread in the TRT forum that was successfully resolved by an endo.

But hey man, if that’s how you or your parents make your money, defend them all you want.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]bam7196 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
Wouldn’t a doctor refer you to a specialist? That’s how it works for everything else… I see orthopedist for injuries, opthalmologist for eyes, dermatologist for the occasional ring worm. Don’t see why you wouldn’t be referred to an endocrinologist for hormones if steroids were legalized. sorry to interrupt doctor bashing, please continue…[/quote]

Unfortunately, endos are about the worst for this kind of stuff…unless you are on your death bed or at imminent risk of dying, endos are absolutely positively useless…they are in the business of saving lives, not improving (and certainly not optimizing) health.
[/quote]

Hahahahahaha. Yeah man, tell that to someone with diabetes or fertility issues or hypothyroidism, or hypopituitarism. Youre pretty fast and loose with these statements[/quote]

Here is a good one:

[quote]
fastersteve wrote:
Haha…My doc originally prescribed 200mg/every 2 weeks then called me and said to do 400mg/EOW when my test came back at 295 2 weeks after my last shot. [/quote]

This is in reference to Testosterone Cypionate shots. Displays absolutely no understanding of the half lives of the drugs in question (which is 1 week).

[quote]
fastersteve wrote:
“Your testosterone levels are WAY too high (799), we need to cut your dose in half. Why are you even on T shots?”

Because my test came back at 202… [/quote]

So he got a diagnosis of hypogonadism from an endo, raised his T levels to upper 75% of the range (which is established by sick patients) but endo wants him at the bottom of the range for no apparent reason? Clueless

[quote]
“What kind of protein powder are you taking? Some have been shown to shut down testicular function.” [/quote]

Lulz

[quote]
“You can’t be taking shots twice a week, that’s far too much testosterone. I think this is a really bad idea, you need to call me immediately.”

This is in response to a message I left with one of the front desk workers where I stated, at least 3 times, that I was taking 50mg/shot, 2 shots/wk… I think he thinks that I’m doing 200mg/shot, 2 shots/wk. [/quote]

Clueless and apparently unaware that pins hold LESS than the prescribed volume and couldnt comprehend the exact same weekly dose was being administered, just in more frequent increments.

[quote]
my endo. doc. said that my injection of test. won’t show up in my blood work for at least 7 days, i said i think i read where it will show up in one day, he says stop reading on those steriod forums. [/quote]

Again, these guys just seem to have no comprehension of half lives

[quote]
My endo in July 2010: Well your T is fine (372) and even though your E2 is a little high (48) it would have to be at least double that before you started seeing any symptoms…have you ever thought of losing weight? That would help your powerlifting, because fat doesn’t lift the weight.

Me: Well doc, if you remember correctly, my major symptom when I came in was that I can’t gain muscle and can’t lose fat…

Endo: Oh yes, well, I think you have depression…take this scrript for Wellbutrin and you’ll be fine…

6 months later

Diagnosis: Testicular Cancer [/quote]

That was actually my endo.

[quote]
Her: Who thought of this great idea to get thyroid tests?
Me: I want to check if I am dosing correctly or I need to adjust.
Her: Thyroid issues is what women have you are male. [/quote]

Good thing they are treating that hyprothyroidism huh!

You win. Medical professionals board certified in endocrinology are stupid. You’ve seen them all.

You on the other hand, I bet you’re an ace at all this stuff. Im guessing you have first-hand experience treating lots of people, or at least making fun of people out of context and giving advice on message boards.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]bam7196 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
Wouldn’t a doctor refer you to a specialist? That’s how it works for everything else… I see orthopedist for injuries, opthalmologist for eyes, dermatologist for the occasional ring worm. Don’t see why you wouldn’t be referred to an endocrinologist for hormones if steroids were legalized. sorry to interrupt doctor bashing, please continue…[/quote]

Unfortunately, endos are about the worst for this kind of stuff…unless you are on your death bed or at imminent risk of dying, endos are absolutely positively useless…they are in the business of saving lives, not improving (and certainly not optimizing) health.
[/quote]

Hahahahahaha. Yeah man, tell that to someone with diabetes or fertility issues or hypothyroidism, or hypopituitarism. Youre pretty fast and loose with these statements[/quote]

Funny you mention hypothyroidism, which is one of most missed diagnosis out there…even most endos do not follow the endroconological society’s recommendations on diagnosing based on symptoms associated with a TSH > 3. I have had two endos state that you wont have hypo symptoms unless your TSH is in the 50’s (!). That is 15x the range established by THEIR society. But they are very eager to lay a diagnosis of depression on you.

Yeah, they are great!

Unless you are at the far end of the spectrum, you will not find much work with endos. You better hope you don’t have hypogonadism![/quote]

I am a doctor my man. And Ive never worked with anyone who EVER requires a TSH over 50 for a diagnosis of hypothyroidism.

PS: Thyroid disorders depend on quite a few things other than TSH. You can look all this basic stuff up with a google search

[quote]bam7196 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]bam7196 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
Wouldn’t a doctor refer you to a specialist? That’s how it works for everything else… I see orthopedist for injuries, opthalmologist for eyes, dermatologist for the occasional ring worm. Don’t see why you wouldn’t be referred to an endocrinologist for hormones if steroids were legalized. sorry to interrupt doctor bashing, please continue…[/quote]

Unfortunately, endos are about the worst for this kind of stuff…unless you are on your death bed or at imminent risk of dying, endos are absolutely positively useless…they are in the business of saving lives, not improving (and certainly not optimizing) health.
[/quote]

Hahahahahaha. Yeah man, tell that to someone with diabetes or fertility issues or hypothyroidism, or hypopituitarism. Youre pretty fast and loose with these statements[/quote]

Funny you mention hypothyroidism, which is one of most missed diagnosis out there…even most endos do not follow the endroconological society’s recommendations on diagnosing based on symptoms associated with a TSH > 3. I have had two endos state that you wont have hypo symptoms unless your TSH is in the 50’s (!). That is 15x the range established by THEIR society. But they are very eager to lay a diagnosis of depression on you.

Yeah, they are great!

Unless you are at the far end of the spectrum, you will not find much work with endos. You better hope you don’t have hypogonadism![/quote]

I am a doctor my man. And Ive never worked with anyone who EVER requires a TSH over 50 for a diagnosis of hypothyroidism.

PS: Thyroid disorders depend on quite a few things other than TSH. You can look all this basic stuff up with a google search
[/quote]

I’m fully aware of the other things, that’s why I mentioned the patient being symptomatic. Though the endocrinology guidelines, AFAIK, recommend only the presence of symptoms, TSH, and T4 as confirmation (as I’m sure you know T4 is not a very useful test as people with other hormonal issues do not convert T4 to T3 well)

Your profile says that you are a student. You may want to update that now, doctor.

[quote]bam7196 wrote:

You win. Medical professionals board certified in endocrinology are stupid. You’ve seen them all.

You on the other hand, I bet you’re an ace at all this stuff. Im guessing you have first-hand experience treating lots of people, or at least making fun of people out of context and giving advice on message boards. [/quote]

You’re god damn right…I will happily take my knowledge of the male hormonal system toe to toe with your average endo any day of the week…If I was relying on endo expertise to guide my health, I would have advanced testicular cancer by this point…

I’m not saying tehy’re all idiots or not compassionate, and I realize that many of them are hamstrung by overzealous insurance policies and auditors, but that is no excuse for some of the ridiculous stories I have posted (you can see more if you care to look in the forum). Or do you think they were all made up in case I ended up in argument with a “doctor” in a forum discussion one day?

For none of the above stories do you know what history the patient actually gave, if they explained it succinctly or if they even remember what was said correctly. Also, many of these docs were likely family practitioners, not specialists. Most endocrinologists work in academia and stick quite strictly to evidence-based medicine (ie guidelines according to published research). But hey man, you’ve got a lot of posts from people you’ve never even met on here so…

Haven’t altered my profile, sorry. Doesnt matter in the least. Who I am has nothing to do with whether you are right or wrong.

As far as markers other than TSH for thyroid issues see original diagnosis through examination of antithyroid antibodies, calcium levels in the urine, alkaline phosphatase, anemia, hyponatremia, hypoglycemia, increased LDL, decreased HDL, increased CK, RAIU Scans etc. Graves Disease: TSI, antimicrosomal Ab, antithyrogloblulin Ab, ANA titers. Hashimoto’s thyroiditis vs nongoiterous hypothyroidism. Is the hypothyroidism primary or secondary? Treatment differs here. I could go on…because it’s a lot of stuff

As for your last paragraph, it was nice that you took the tone you did, but this was after insinuating all the things that you’re “not saying” there.

Either way, I’m not trying to be mean here, but this kind of thing really doesnt need to be proven to you. This area of medicine is advancing every year and patients are, more often than not, seeing the benefits. I dont care to argue anyome