Steroids in Sports

Off Topic
61

[quote]Samplaysbaseball wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]sen say wrote:

Finally, baseball is ghey and boring as fuck.[/quote]

sen say,

Really? You are from Ireland are you not? Like a 1-0 soccer game is going to do it for me. Better yet, isn’t your 'National Sport" hurling? We have that here in the States, we just call it girls field hockey. [/quote]

I have to agree that to me baseball is amazing boring. I respect the skill it takes to play it at a professional level. But damn you don’t even have to be in shape. I am too ADHD to watch even an inning [/quote]

Of course you have to be “in shape” to play baseball. I agree it takes less endurance than many other sports but it still requires speed, agility and strength. You cant say a baseball player is out of shape because he doesnt fit the model of a very aerobicly fit in shape person. [/quote]

Let’s not fool ourselfs, some of these guys are in better shape then most guys here. But not all qualify as what we think of as a Roman Gladiator.

“I ain’t an athlete, lady, I’m a baseball player.” John Kruk
(If you have to GOOGLE his name, you may want to stay out of the conversation)

62

CMdad

great post. totally agree…

63

[quote]Samplaysbaseball wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]sen say wrote:

Finally, baseball is ghey and boring as fuck.[/quote]

sen say,

Really? You are from Ireland are you not? Like a 1-0 soccer game is going to do it for me. Better yet, isn’t your 'National Sport" hurling? We have that here in the States, we just call it girls field hockey. [/quote]

I have to agree that to me baseball is amazing boring. I respect the skill it takes to play it at a professional level. But damn you don’t even have to be in shape. I am too ADHD to watch even an inning [/quote]

Of course you have to be “in shape” to play baseball. I agree it takes less endurance than many other sports but it still requires speed, agility and strength. You cant say a baseball player is out of shape because he doesnt fit the model of a very aerobicly fit in shape person. [/quote]

Sorry didn’t mean to hurt your feelings

64

and its any and every sport. people say if you cant hit a basebal now taking drugs wont matter then… you’re bigger and stronger, but still cant hit a baseball… bull shit!! drugs also make the reaction time way better… it be so nice to see exactly how good the best athletes are in all sports WITHOUT drugs… arnold wouldnt have been as big and ripped. lance wouldnt have been so fast day in and day out. carl lewis wouldnt have been so fast… nfl linebackers wouldnt be 250# and a 4.7 in the 40… etc.etc.etc… and maybe none of the 3 above mentioned athletes would have even been at the top if they competed clean… remember drugs help some a few % and some a lot %…maybe on god given tallent alone arnold would have only made mr usa. maybe lance just a division 2 pro…etc… nobody will ever know how good athletes are clean, cause none , in any sport are anymore…

65

[quote]IFlashBack wrote:
I was wondering what people’s thoughts were when it came to younger kids starting to use Steroids for sport. I mean, the pros taking steroids means more competition, meaning that the minor league players may take it. Then in order to get to the minors you have to take the roids, so people in college take it etc. etc. until you have people in their early teens contemplating it.

I mean, as a 15 year old, why not use it early to outperform peers, make better ball clubs and get better training? [/quote]

In HS I knew of 10 or so people that at least dabbled with steriods. Only 2 went on to D3 football and no further.

I think the people that have the talent to play pro will be destroying ppl at HS level so I would argue that they aren’t “needed” for those truly gifted people. College I would still make the same arguement. I just don’t see steriods really making a nobody or even someone pretty good into a pro level athlete. Steriods don’t give you skill, agility, hand to eye coordination, or knowledge of how to play the game. They will give you a bit more speed if used correctly. More power. more size which may or may not help. They will certainly help recover from intense training and injury which is probably there biggest benefit IMO.

66

[quote]spk wrote:
and its any and every sport. people say if you cant hit a basebal now taking drugs wont matter then… you’re bigger and stronger, but still cant hit a baseball… bull shit!! drugs also make the reaction time way better… it be so nice to see exactly how good the best athletes are in all sports WITHOUT drugs… arnold wouldnt have been as big and ripped. lance wouldnt have been so fast day in and day out. carl lewis wouldnt have been so fast… nfl linebackers wouldnt be 250# and a 4.7 in the 40… etc.etc.etc… and maybe none of the 3 above mentioned athletes would have even been at the top if they competed clean… remember drugs help some a few % and some a lot %…maybe on god given tallent alone arnold would have only made mr usa. maybe lance just a division 2 pro…etc… nobody will ever know how good athletes are clean, cause none , in any sport are anymore…[/quote]

IMO if the playing fieldis completely leveled ie no one is taking anything the best will still be the best. The stats they put up wont be quite as good or maybe they would be no one can say for certain.

67

ryan. thats not the way to look at it. two good athletes. both equal tallent wise… at the top of their game, playing pro at their sport…one may get 5% better with drugs, the other may get 7% better. so the best dosent always come out on top… only way to figure out who the best is is play with no drugs. but that stopped in the 60’s… or before…

68

[quote]spk wrote:
ryan. thats not the way to look at it. two good athletes. both equal tallent wise… at the top of their game, playing pro at their sport…one may get 5% better with drugs, the other may get 7% better. so the best dosent always come out on top… only way to figure out who the best is is play with no drugs. but that stopped in the 60’s… or before…[/quote]

I agree with your premise but disagree with your conclusions.

The fundamental doping issue typically has two dimensions: (1) health and (2) fairness. While using PEDs might not be great for health (I mean looking at it neutrally and not following the scare tactics), so is actually being a professional athlete. Hence, the health issue isn’t so interesting I think.

Now fairness is more interesting. The whole idea of maintaining a level playing field sounds nice at first look but is tricky as hell. Why? I don’t see any realistic scenario where there actually is a level playing field.

Scenario 1 (status quo): PEDs are officially banned but controls are not close to 100% → no level playing field

Scenario 2 (unrealistic): PEDs are officially banned AND controls are 100%, meaning no cheating → no level playing field

Scenario 3 (unrealistic): PEDs are allowed - everything goes → no level playing field

Scenario 4 (impossible): No PEDs use is possible or everything goes AND every other variables affecting the athletes are controlled → level playing field, meaning the one that works the hardest wins.

Fundamentally, the whole war on doping agenda begs the question why they focus so hard on stopping PEDs use when there are so many other factors disrupting the utopian level playing field. Clearly, one can come up with explanations why they do that but I’m speaking about sound reasons.

69

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]IFlashBack wrote:
I was wondering what people’s thoughts were when it came to younger kids starting to use Steroids for sport. I mean, the pros taking steroids means more competition, meaning that the minor league players may take it. Then in order to get to the minors you have to take the roids, so people in college take it etc. etc. until you have people in their early teens contemplating it.

I mean, as a 15 year old, why not use it early to outperform peers, make better ball clubs and get better training? [/quote]

In HS I knew of 10 or so people that at least dabbled with steriods. Only 2 went on to D3 football and no further.

I think the people that have the talent to play pro will be destroying ppl at HS level so I would argue that they aren’t “needed” for those truly gifted people. College I would still make the same arguement. I just don’t see steriods really making a nobody or even someone pretty good into a pro level athlete. Steriods don’t give you skill, agility, hand to eye coordination, or knowledge of how to play the game. They will give you a bit more speed if used correctly. More power. more size which may or may not help. They will certainly help recover from intense training and injury which is probably there biggest benefit IMO. [/quote]

I’m from a big HS football community and there are players using steriods. Kids 17 & 18 with incredible mass on them that weigh 330-350 lbs. There are local doctors that are team boosters, they’ll bend the rules a bit giving HGH shots out too to kids that don’t need them. And the parents are totally on board with it… and the huge drinking parties after games.

I saw one of these kids after he was in college a couple of years, washed out of college level football. He lost a dramatic amount of mass.

Rob

70

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]IFlashBack wrote:
I was wondering what people’s thoughts were when it came to younger kids starting to use Steroids for sport. I mean, the pros taking steroids means more competition, meaning that the minor league players may take it. Then in order to get to the minors you have to take the roids, so people in college take it etc. etc. until you have people in their early teens contemplating it.

I mean, as a 15 year old, why not use it early to outperform peers, make better ball clubs and get better training? [/quote]

In HS I knew of 10 or so people that at least dabbled with steriods. Only 2 went on to D3 football and no further.

I think the people that have the talent to play pro will be destroying ppl at HS level so I would argue that they aren’t “needed” for those truly gifted people. College I would still make the same arguement. I just don’t see steriods really making a nobody or even someone pretty good into a pro level athlete. Steriods don’t give you skill, agility, hand to eye coordination, or knowledge of how to play the game. They will give you a bit more speed if used correctly. More power. more size which may or may not help. They will certainly help recover from intense training and injury which is probably there biggest benefit IMO. [/quote]

I’m from a big HS football community and there are players using steriods. Kids 17 & 18 with incredible mass on them that weigh 330-350 lbs. There are local doctors that are team boosters, they’ll bend the rules a bit giving HGH shots out too to kids that don’t need them. And the parents are totally on board with it… and the huge drinking parties after games.

I saw one of these kids after he was in college a couple of years, washed out of college level football. He lost a dramatic amount of mass.

Rob[/quote]
should of said my Hs was quite small and hockey was my main sport and AAS did not seem to have the benefits to Hs to junior level of play. D1 college might be a different story.

And I think your story shows that those people just didn’t have the overall ability to make it to a pro level even with copious amounts of AAS

71

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
Steroids: Perfectly fine for 40+ year old men who want bigger arms, Absolutely forbidden for pro athletes who make a living off their performance

Seriously though, how is it okay for older men to take testosterone to boost their levels, and it’s seen as completely fine and safe?
But if an athlete wants to do that same thing, his balls are gonna shrivel up, he’ll get “roid rage”, and die an early death?[/quote]

Older men are doing it to restore to “youthful levels” as their body starts to detiorate- to become optimal again. We don’t really know these guys pre-AAS levels but I think it is safe to assume they aren’t pushing their T to a mere 800-1000ng/dL or so.

72

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]sen say wrote:

Finally, baseball is ghey and boring as fuck.[/quote]

sen say,

Really? You are from Ireland are you not? Like a 1-0 soccer game is going to do it for me. Better yet, isn’t your 'National Sport" hurling? We have that here in the States, we just call it girls field hockey. [/quote]

Whoa there cowboy! You can take the piss out of soccer all you like, with their flailing theatrics and plucked eyebrows but comparing Hurling to girls fields hockey now c’mon! Btw we have 2 national sports Hurling and Gaelic Football for those that give a shit… Rugby comes in a close second and imo all fucking tough games played by hard bastards

I had to through that in there because I’m sensitive just like you, now continue…

73

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]IFlashBack wrote:
I was wondering what people’s thoughts were when it came to younger kids starting to use Steroids for sport. I mean, the pros taking steroids means more competition, meaning that the minor league players may take it. Then in order to get to the minors you have to take the roids, so people in college take it etc. etc. until you have people in their early teens contemplating it.

I mean, as a 15 year old, why not use it early to outperform peers, make better ball clubs and get better training? [/quote]

In HS I knew of 10 or so people that at least dabbled with steriods. Only 2 went on to D3 football and no further.

I think the people that have the talent to play pro will be destroying ppl at HS level so I would argue that they aren’t “needed” for those truly gifted people. College I would still make the same arguement. I just don’t see steriods really making a nobody or even someone pretty good into a pro level athlete. Steriods don’t give you skill, agility, hand to eye coordination, or knowledge of how to play the game. They will give you a bit more speed if used correctly. More power. more size which may or may not help. They will certainly help recover from intense training and injury which is probably there biggest benefit IMO. [/quote]

I’m from a big HS football community and there are players using steriods. Kids 17 & 18 with incredible mass on them that weigh 330-350 lbs. There are local doctors that are team boosters, they’ll bend the rules a bit giving HGH shots out too to kids that don’t need them. And the parents are totally on board with it… and the huge drinking parties after games.

I saw one of these kids after he was in college a couple of years, washed out of college level football. He lost a dramatic amount of mass.

Rob[/quote]
should of said my Hs was quite small and hockey was my main sport and AAS did not seem to have the benefits to Hs to junior level of play. D1 college might be a different story.

And I think your story shows that those people just didn’t have the overall ability to make it to a pro level even with copious amounts of AAS[/quote]

Around here, it is the JUCO players that are juiced to the gills. The guys that go on to play at a higher level, not as much. Some do, some don’t but the ones that do are far more conservative with dosing. Football, at least on the under D1 level doesn’t seem to have near the problem that baseball does. It almost seems like that it has become part of the baseball culture.

74

I have never in my life seen this thing called hurling

75

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]DeadKong wrote:
A con argument I came across is that with contact sports (football, hockey, combat) is that if these athletes are hitting each other harder, they will injure each other more. Do PEDs harden the skull and make the brain less susceptible to trauma?[/quote]

This is assuming that the guys making those hits aren’t already on.

That many of them are has already been proven.
[/quote]
Most top guys sure are on, but they still have to keep it to a certain level to be able to cycle off in time to piss clean. For example in MMA, its pretty common a guy loses his job in a promotion after losing 2-3 fights in a row. Thats a shitload of pressure when your financial income depends on that contract. Let them juice all they want, I doubt it’d take long till those guys would be running doses unheard of when they were being tested before fights.

Put aside all the fair play bullshit, this shit definitely would make for better entertainment, doubt anyone could argue that. Still I do believe that testing the athletes, even if the tests are pretty laughable and easily avoided serves to protect the athletes to some extent. I’m not saying doing it in reasonable and somewhat healthy ammounts is going to kill them when they are 30, but how many of you are seriously naive enough to believe they wouldn’t be running higher doses than they already are if it’d be allowed? Doubt most of these guys would give a fuck about what this shit does to you when you are 40 if pouring it on to your system right now will give you unbelievable advantage over you opponents.

76

" Should steroids be legal? Why or why not?"

Illegal under present circumstances,

Everyone i refer to in following is or has competed in a variety of sports, usually strength based:

In my local gym we have had very few athletes achieve significant (800kg+ raw totals ) , of the few of these , they came down with odd illnesses - stroke, TIA , and some kind of illness relating to organ toxicity.None were older than 34.

Of the multitude of other athletes in that gym who were on very few ever came within a roar of a 600kg total , often seemingly confusing gear with hard work or perhaps they began taking far too early , or literally did not have a clue . - my personal favourite being a friend who went on everything and achieved a 160kg squat up from 130 at well over a BW of 100 , if he had picked up a pair of Oly lifting shoes he probably could have attained that on the first day he wore them . sometimes the answer is a decent pair of shoes , not a syringe.

so locally , the guys who took perhaps not a whole lot , didnt achieve a whole lot but seem to have nothing wrong with them right now… on the other hand if your on gear you should really be trying to achieve something , the guys (very few) who went for it and did achieve unusual levels of strength , are paying the piper a couple of years down the road .

so it isnt really a substance that you can wilfully mess with . Basically people are stupid with this stuff.Until they get smarter some effort to keep it from them should be made . If you cant even get a 600kg total raw @90-105kg natural you probably should look at programming rather than medication , I see people trying it for 490kg totals.

Moving on …

Abroad …
in some other countries there is a sense that Gear ,is literally a sign that youre a dedicated athlete, that you do what is needed etc etc , in some countries there is still a culture of strength and its percieved that those athletes who are the most dedicated who will also work the hardest and take their restoratives and head out and dominate - that these are the guys who deserve to Win.
But they rob people of the choice to be clean or not , they rob their clean competitors and ultimately when all of it comes into the open they dirty the image of the sport involved . so it does the sport no favours at all , Olympic lifting in Turkey is actually fairly well known there but in recent years they have had a spate of positives,and that suddenly alters the outlook for the entire sport in that country.

Also the testing means that at least some type of lid is kept on the quantities of stuff , this implies its in the athletes interest to keep doses sane. un banning it would lead to no end of cans of worms being opened , and indeed would possibly turn off the participation athletes rather than the competitive one , participation athletes usually being the ones who form the majority of athletes and stay in the sports later as administrators etc.

77

472×669 101 KB

I thought deGrasse put it well, look at his bottom post.

as far as my views? I don’t want kids using steroids, or people dealing/using bad gear, but I could care less if healthy adults use it. If it’s an even playing field then who cares? And if you’re jealous of some dude at the gym who’s bigger and leaner than you because he’s on gear, then either use gear yourself, stop being jealous, or turn him into law enforcement lol.

78

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I’ll sum up my stance.

For baseball, legality isn’t the issue. I think some of the guys even juiced legally (at least at times) living in other countries.

The issue is that it is against the rules. That being the case, they should handle it like other cheating, corking a bat or using sand paper on a ball. The one difference that should be noted is that they shouldn?t be allowed back in the league with a still partially corked bat. They?d need to remain suspended, even after the punishment, until you were reasonably sure they no longer had any benefit from them. For natty bodybuilding I think that?s generally 3+ years.

I don’t really care about the criminal aspect, but I do care that they are cheaters.

79

[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
I have never in my life seen this thing called hurling[/quote]

Well its origins date back a couple of thousand years. They (the GAA) only recently introduced mandatory head gear (insurance reasons). The Scots play a similar game called Shinty.

Just about every parish / town has either a Hurling team or Gaelic Football team (similar to Aussie Rules - we play them in a hybrid game once a year) or both. Each county turns out a team of their best players but nobody gets paid even though they put in fulltime training hours plus hold down fulltime jobs. Every player plays for pride and honour, plain and simple! There’s no fucking about or pussy antics like in soccer as your pride is at stake, which is great to watch.

The equivalent of the Super Bowl will be happening this September

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