Standing vs. Seated Shoulder Press

Training Bodybuilding
61

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
schultzie wrote:
Im going to stick with standing for the time being, because of the following reasons:

I don’t have a decent base of shoulder strength yet (135x3 standing)

I haven’t gotten good enough technique to move on from the basic lift.

I know where I am in terms of strength in the lift

I don’t have any shoulder problems and I’m not currently flat benching

I only just barely fill out a large t

You do realize that those things may not improve unless you actually concentrate on improving them?

Technique sucks for recruiting delts (i.e. you lift with your traps and tris) ?
How is this going to be fixed by continuing what you’ve been doing before? (btw zephead has a good point on the high-incline in the smith, this one allows you to sort of press forward and up at the same time and really allows you to torch the delts vs. tris and traps.)

Not currently having shoulder problems? You will develop them if you
continue pressing with the wrong technique.
I want to add this here: If you aren’t using those yet, add in broomstick stretches/“dislocations”(the name is kinda stupid) and properly done face-pulls… But all the prehab in the world won’t help you if you develop bones purs or bursitis or whatever from improper technique.

Don’t have a decent base of shoulder strength? Same thing, won’t improve much due to improper technique.

Btw, if you can get a vid of your pressing up we could point out some technique problems…

I’m not saying “avoid the standing military press”. I’m saying "learn how to press with your shoulders before you do an exercise which has quite a few technical intricacies and makes it too easy to use other muscle-groups as the main movers instead of the intended one.

Btw, how about rotating exercises? Standing military the one time, Seated Smith High-Incline or a HS press every other session?
[/quote]

The thing I love about smith high inclines is that I actually get sore in the rear delt from them, it happens with dbs to a much lesser extent too, but I’m all front delts when bb overhead pressing. This is just another thing to think about when picking an overhead press variation.

62

in regards to the comments on cleaning weight up to do standing presses, this can be combated by doing them out of a rack. My questions is to those who say more weight can be moved doing a seated press, what is your opinion then of doing push presses to help push maximal loads

63

If you use DBs and train on your own, you’ll have to clean them too.

64

[quote]plateau wrote:
If you use DBs and train on your own, you’ll have to clean them too.[/quote]

No, you stand up, put them on your knees and kick them into position. That is why you don’t see these pro bodybuilders cleaning their dumbbells into place.

65

[quote]Professor X wrote:
plateau wrote:
If you use DBs and train on your own, you’ll have to clean them too.

No, you stand up, put them on your knees and kick them into position. That is why you don’t see these pro bodybuilders cleaning their dumbbells into place. [/quote]

ive acually seen dexter clean the weight up with dumbbells before in videos using pretty heavy weight

66

[quote]crod266 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
plateau wrote:
If you use DBs and train on your own, you’ll have to clean them too.

No, you stand up, put them on your knees and kick them into position. That is why you don’t see these pro bodybuilders cleaning their dumbbells into place.

ive acually seen dexter clean the weight up with dumbbells before in videos using pretty heavy weight[/quote]

THAT’S BECAUSE HE’S SHORT.

Why would you look at an exception as the rule? Ronnie Coleman doesn’t. Want to play again?

In fact, Dexter usually relies on his training partner to hand him the dumbbells (at least he has done so in both training videos he has released including his last one).

67

[quote]Professor X wrote:
crod266 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
plateau wrote:
If you use DBs and train on your own, you’ll have to clean them too.

No, you stand up, put them on your knees and kick them into position. That is why you don’t see these pro bodybuilders cleaning their dumbbells into place.

ive acually seen dexter clean the weight up with dumbbells before in videos using pretty heavy weight

THAT’S BECAUSE HE’S SHORT.

Why would you look at an exception as the rule? Ronnie Coleman doesn’t. Want to play again?

In fact, Dexter usually relies on his training partner to hand him the dumbbells (at least he has done so in both training videos he has released including his last one).[/quote]

calm down yo i was just saying what ive seen, if you saw i wasnt one of the people disagreeing with you.

68

Whats this business about cleaning the weight? Just put it on pins in the power-rack that are about chest height. You don’t need to have it in the clean position either (resting on your shoulders) when you start out.

I have seen good results individually from strict standing overhead presses (no leg drive, no energy wasted by cleaning the weight, same grip as seated). But I also do high incline presses as well, so it’s hard to tell who the culprit is.

69

In the final analysis, you have to do what works for YOU.

70

Does anybody do standing dumbbell press?..

71

I do but in the unilateral variant with the other hand holding onto a rack.

The main reason I do this is because problems with tendonitis or other cause of forearm pain makes not only cleaning a bad idea, but even getting to the shoulders when seated by any means. However I can place a DB on the top part of the squat rack using both hands and thus avoid aggravating the forearm pain problem.

Of course this thread is making me sound like a wreck: the shoulder and forearm problems are all there is though, and they are manageable. It’s just a very few specific things I need to avoid.

72

[quote]Professor X wrote:

There are guys moving bigger weight seated. Cleaning the weight in the first place means less overall weight can be used. You can NOT use maximum heavy weight on shoulders when you have to leave a reserve in the tank to not only clean the weight but set it down afterwards. It actually makes less sense to do them standing the more we discuss this. Also, your definition of “big” may be different than mine. Big to me is someone who is strong enough to press 2-3 plates a side overhead or more. Why would someone who can do that risk a shoulder injury just so they can clean the weight from the ground?

You don’t get extra points for making this shit as complicated as possible and, trust me, your shoulders are NOT a joint you want to fuck around with.

If you are still only moving 1 plate a side at the most, your risk of serious injury may be less. That changes once you build enough size and strength to fill out a XXL shirt or larger.

I know too many guys with serious rotator cuff injuries who aren’t even that big for me to take my shoulder training lightly or to employ techniques that put me at even greater risk of permanent injury.

It honestly seems as if some of you train just so you can show off in the gym with your “functional” training methods. No one experienced gives a shit and that’s just the truth.[/quote]

You make a good point Professor X. I will consider doing the seated press. I don’t give a shit about about showing off in the gym. I honestly did standing presses for several reasons.

  1. I thought they were better for the sake of trunk stability.
  2. I did not want to have to ask somebody to spot me.
  3. I thought it was the more hardcore way to lift.

I just don’t want to miss out on something that I could benefit from by standing. I will give seated a try though.

73

[quote]Professor X wrote:
plateau wrote:
If you use DBs and train on your own, you’ll have to clean them too.

No, you stand up, put them on your knees and kick them into position. That is why you don’t see these pro bodybuilders cleaning their dumbbells into place. [/quote]

A clean basically involves 2 parts - the row and external rotation. While kicking them up may remove most of the first part - you still to rotate.

You mentioned the risk of injury from cleaning, so do you think kicking them up is less risky than using a BB in a rack?

74

[quote]plateau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
plateau wrote:
If you use DBs and train on your own, you’ll have to clean them too.

No, you stand up, put them on your knees and kick them into position. That is why you don’t see these pro bodybuilders cleaning their dumbbells into place.

A clean basically involves 2 parts - the row and external rotation. While kicking them up may remove most of the first part - you still to rotate.

You mentioned the risk of injury from cleaning, so do you think kicking them up is less risky than using a BB in a rack?[/quote]

You do realize that most people kick them into place when doing any dumbbell pressing movement? It is NOTHING like cleaning the weight from the ground.

Do some of you even watch bigger lifters lift weights?

75

[quote]Professor X wrote:
plateau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
plateau wrote:
If you use DBs and train on your own, you’ll have to clean them too.

No, you stand up, put them on your knees and kick them into position. That is why you don’t see these pro bodybuilders cleaning their dumbbells into place.

A clean basically involves 2 parts - the row and external rotation. While kicking them up may remove most of the first part - you still to rotate.

You mentioned the risk of injury from cleaning, so do you think kicking them up is less risky than using a BB in a rack?

You do realize that most people kick them into place when doing any dumbbell pressing movement? It is NOTHING like cleaning the weight from the ground.

Do some of you even watch bigger lifters lift weights?[/quote]

They only watch the bigger guys’ first warm-up set(s) so that they can claim to lift more than said big guys.

Seriously though, people have used that kick-up technique for decades and how often do you hear of them getting injured from that? You get injuries from benching etc, but not from kicking the weights up (unless you somehow manage to mess that up, I guess)

I recall Charles Glass write something about how he got rotator cuff issues from always cleaning his weights up when he was training at home (bb’s for squatting etc). Guess cleaning stuff without the right form and with too much weight with little to no warm-up isn’t the best idea. Who would have thought.

76

[quote]Professor X wrote:

You do realize that most people kick them into place when doing any dumbbell pressing movement? It is NOTHING like cleaning the weight from the ground.

Do some of you even watch bigger lifters lift weights?[/quote]

Who mentioned cleaning from the ground? Not me.

You didn’t answer my question. But I’ll answer yours they do neither - in my sorry state for a gym anyway.

77

[quote]plateau wrote:
Professor X wrote:

You do realize that most people kick them into place when doing any dumbbell pressing movement? It is NOTHING like cleaning the weight from the ground.

Do some of you even watch bigger lifters lift weights?

Who mentioned cleaning from the ground? Not me.

You didn’t answer my question. But I’ll answer yours they do neither - in my sorry state for a gym anyway.[/quote]

I think I have made my opinion of standing barbell presses pretty clear in this thread, so when you ask whether still doing them would be better than kicking dumbbells into position, the answer is no. If you want to do standing presses, do them. Just don’t then wonder why your shoulders may not be progressing the way they would if you simply sat down and put all focus into your shoulders doing all of the work.

My goal when lifting is to feel the target muscle group and lift heavy enough to promote adaptation. Anything that takes away my focus from that one muscle group will be eliminated.

If you guys want to do this exercise so you look “hardcore”, fine. Just know that “hardcore” for most of us is when you actually have the results to show for all of the work.

78

[quote]SIWSMLEG wrote:
My questions is to those who say more weight can be moved doing a seated press, what is your opinion then of doing push presses to help push maximal loads[/quote]

Kind of wondering this too, any of you bigger guys in favor of using push presses as a later movement so you can keep moving appreciable weight while in a fatigued state? Basically “cheating” on an overhead press is how I always thought of it so I tried to push it to the end of my shoulder routine.

79

[quote]red04 wrote:
SIWSMLEG wrote:
My questions is to those who say more weight can be moved doing a seated press, what is your opinion then of doing push presses to help push maximal loads

Kind of wondering this too, any of you bigger guys in favor of using push presses as a later movement so you can keep moving appreciable weight while in a fatigued state? Basically “cheating” on an overhead press is how I always thought of it so I tried to push it to the end of my shoulder routine.

[/quote]

I wouldn’t use it in regular training. Have added in push-presses (not free-weight but in the v-squat and powersquat machines as well as in some standing-calf-raise machines which allow you to use a wide “grip”) into my shoulder rotation for DC on occasion. The reason why that was sort of a push-press is because one can use a tremendous amount of weight when pressing in those machines and you need to bend/feather with the knees to keep stress of your back when the weight is coming back down etc…

I wouldn’t recommend this for beginners or intermediates to be honest, you really need to know how to focus on pressing with the shoulders, control the negative etc. Shoulders are so easy to mess up…

Here’s a vid of BN doing 900lb for reps on such an exercise:

(And for the record, I don’t like how Barbell push-presses or worse, BTN push-presses feel at all. In fact they feel like an injury waiting to happen, but do whatever you wish. I prefer to do one of the machine-variants mentioned above and stay clear of push-presses most of the time, anyway.)

80

what do you think of smith push presses.