[quote]Der Candy wrote:
what do you think of smith push presses.[/quote]
Gotta admit that I haven’t tried them much. I did smith Push-presses at the very beginning of my training but dropped them since I honestly didn’t manage to get them quite right (i.e. to target my delts like smith seated high-inclines do).
I don’t like to do standing shoulder work in the smith…
Maybe try alternating them with your regular overhead press and see if you like 'em? I wouldn’t push-press every shoulder workout, like mentioned above… Just personal preference and injury-prevention.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
plateau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
You do realize that most people kick them into place when doing any dumbbell pressing movement? It is NOTHING like cleaning the weight from the ground.
Do some of you even watch bigger lifters lift weights?
Who mentioned cleaning from the ground? Not me.
You didn’t answer my question. But I’ll answer yours they do neither - in my sorry state for a gym anyway.
I think I have made my opinion of standing barbell presses pretty clear in this thread, so when you ask whether still doing them would be better than kicking dumbbells into position, the answer is no. If you want to do standing presses, do them. Just don’t then wonder why your shoulders may not be progressing the way they would if you simply sat down and put all focus into your shoulders doing all of the work.
My goal when lifting is to feel the target muscle group and lift heavy enough to promote adaptation. Anything that takes away my focus from that one muscle group will be eliminated.
If you guys want to do this exercise so you look “hardcore”, fine. Just know that “hardcore” for most of us is when you actually have the results to show for all of the work.[/quote]
Actually that wasn’t my question but nevermind.
Don’t really give a crap if I look hardcore to others. I feel the target group just fine from standing - I also do db presses too and feel them fine too.
[quote]plateau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
plateau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
You do realize that most people kick them into place when doing any dumbbell pressing movement? It is NOTHING like cleaning the weight from the ground.
Do some of you even watch bigger lifters lift weights?
Who mentioned cleaning from the ground? Not me.
You didn’t answer my question. But I’ll answer yours they do neither - in my sorry state for a gym anyway.
I think I have made my opinion of standing barbell presses pretty clear in this thread, so when you ask whether still doing them would be better than kicking dumbbells into position, the answer is no. If you want to do standing presses, do them. Just don’t then wonder why your shoulders may not be progressing the way they would if you simply sat down and put all focus into your shoulders doing all of the work.
My goal when lifting is to feel the target muscle group and lift heavy enough to promote adaptation. Anything that takes away my focus from that one muscle group will be eliminated.
If you guys want to do this exercise so you look “hardcore”, fine. Just know that “hardcore” for most of us is when you actually have the results to show for all of the work.
Actually that wasn’t my question but nevermind.
Don’t really give a crap if I look hardcore to others. I feel the target group just fine from standing - I also do db presses too and feel them fine too.[/quote]
Good. This isn’t about if you feel them though. This is about if they grow well from what you are doing.
Well, I just got back from the gym and tried out the seated press with the same weight that I use standing for a 5x5.
I have to say that it did work my shoulders very well, however I do not feel much difference compared to the standing press. It was actually pretty damn hard and grinding and I do not feel like I could have moved much more weight that way. Maybe 5 more pounds but I would have needed a spotter in case I missed.
I found unracking the weight kind of awkward at first and it actually made my lower back feel funny however once the weight got over my head, It felt exactly like the standing version. Re-racking the weight was easy and after the first set I got better at them.
I think I will alternate the seated and standing version for a while just to make sure it doesn’t grow on me, but as of the moment I feel more comfortable doing them standing.
[quote]elano wrote:
Well, I just got back from the gym and tried out the seated press with the same weight that I use standing for a 5x5.
I have to say that it did work my shoulders very well, however I do not feel much difference compared to the standing press. It was actually pretty damn hard and grinding and I do not feel like I could have moved much more weight that way. Maybe 5 more pounds but I would have needed a spotter in case I missed.
I found unracking the weight kind of awkward at first and it actually made my lower back feel funny however once the weight got over my head, It felt exactly like the standing version. Re-racking the weight was easy and after the first set I got better at them.
I think I will alternate the seated and standing version for a while just to make sure it doesn’t grow on me, but as of the moment I feel more comfortable doing them standing.[/quote]
What works best in my experience is;
Pins somewhere between collar bone and ears
Bar in front
Bench set at a hefty incline, NOT 90 degree angle. Think somewhere between 75-80. Experiment and see what works best for you.
Press UP and BACK. Initially the bar will have a tendency to drift out in front of you and you’ll waste a lot of energy trying to control it.
Press away. I can see some monster shoulders in my future once I get up around 250-300 for reps in this exercise.
If you can move 225 on any press variation you are going to have impressive delts. There are people who can press 315+. There are people who can clean and press 500 lbs. Sick weight.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
plateau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
plateau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
You do realize that most people kick them into place when doing any dumbbell pressing movement? It is NOTHING like cleaning the weight from the ground.
Do some of you even watch bigger lifters lift weights?
Who mentioned cleaning from the ground? Not me.
You didn’t answer my question. But I’ll answer yours they do neither - in my sorry state for a gym anyway.
I think I have made my opinion of standing barbell presses pretty clear in this thread, so when you ask whether still doing them would be better than kicking dumbbells into position, the answer is no. If you want to do standing presses, do them. Just don’t then wonder why your shoulders may not be progressing the way they would if you simply sat down and put all focus into your shoulders doing all of the work.
My goal when lifting is to feel the target muscle group and lift heavy enough to promote adaptation. Anything that takes away my focus from that one muscle group will be eliminated.
If you guys want to do this exercise so you look “hardcore”, fine. Just know that “hardcore” for most of us is when you actually have the results to show for all of the work.
Actually that wasn’t my question but nevermind.
Don’t really give a crap if I look hardcore to others. I feel the target group just fine from standing - I also do db presses too and feel them fine too.
Good. This isn’t about if you feel them though. This is about if they grow well from what you are doing.[/quote]
“My goal when lifting is to feel the target muscle group”
I agree with this sentiment. Actually they have grown well recently from low volume.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think I have made my opinion of standing barbell presses pretty clear in this thread, so when you ask whether still doing them would be better than kicking dumbbells into position, the answer is no. If you want to do standing presses, do them. Just don’t then wonder why your shoulders may not be progressing the way they would if you simply sat down and put all focus into your shoulders doing all of the work.
My goal when lifting is to feel the target muscle group and lift heavy enough to promote adaptation. Anything that takes away my focus from that one muscle group will be eliminated.
If you guys want to do this exercise so you look “hardcore”, fine. Just know that “hardcore” for most of us is when you actually have the results to show for all of the work.[/quote]
Ditto to Professor X and the others who choose seated on this.
My strength coach started me out on clean and press when I started PL training long ago. I always seen guys doing them seated and asked him about it. He believed that the clean and press trained two birds with one stone so to speak and assisted my deadlift. The explosive clean with every rep may have helped my dead lift but I think it limited my shoulder development. I couldnt use as much weight due to the amount of effort needed to clean the bar.
I only use seated presses unsupported now and for the last few years. I have seen much better progress in the shoulder area from these as opposed to a clean and press or standing press. More focus on the muscle being targetted as the Professor states.
I have been using barbell for the last few cycles. I can get a bit more weight lifted with the barbell. I may swap out to dumbells next cycle to hit the stabilizers a bit.
who says you can’t go heavy while standing? some on here think that sitting is better because you can go heavier. i guess those who say that aren’t strong enough to clean the weight up. you could also load the bar into a squat rack so you don’t have to clean it. check out derek poundstone and tell me if you have better shoulders than him.
PX when doing seated (high-incline) are u referring to it being better using DB’s or BB’s??
If ur using BB’s do you use the racks made for just that? I find it too hard to rack the weight behind me, causes my shoulders to stretch back wrong, so instead i use the squat or powerrack and put a seat in and unrack from the front. Is that what you do?? Anybody else do that??
[quote]The Austrian Oak wrote:
who says you can’t go heavy while standing? some on here think that sitting is better because you can go heavier. i guess those who say that aren’t strong enough to clean the weight up. you could also load the bar into a squat rack so you don’t have to clean it. check out derek poundstone and tell me if you have better shoulders than him.
[quote]mr popular wrote:
The Austrian Oak wrote:
who says you can’t go heavy while standing? some on here think that sitting is better because you can go heavier. i guess those who say that aren’t strong enough to clean the weight up. you could also load the bar into a squat rack so you don’t have to clean it. check out derek poundstone and tell me if you have better shoulders than him.
You do realize he’s practicing a competition lift, and he trains his shoulders with a slew of other more direct exercises right?[/quote]
that’s not the point.
the point is that some on here posted that standing presses don’t lend themselves well to going heavy and that cleaning and lowering heavy weights will lead to some kind of shoulder injury.
[quote]forlife wrote:
One problem with standing shoulder presses is that it is easier to cheat by using your legs. Seated shoulder presses force you to focus on the delts.[/quote]
standing presses build more overall body strength.
the only time i would do seated presses is if I was doing seated shoulder dumbbell presses as some assitance work.
IMHO for strict shoulder developement and isolation seated is superiour. Though a standing clean and press works more muscle, for me those are mostly trap-upper back movement. For the seated I like the bench to be about 80 degrees, not 90. Everyone in my gym considers it “cheating” as they claim it “works your chest”.
And all that I can say about it that it’s bullshit. The Biggest former gymnast guy who’s also the strongest on every pressing movement also does them on the steep incline, and I always get incredible pump in my shoulders from the excersise too. Not to mention, this is the very best excersise for me from that term that I can use the most weight on them.
I only do standing variations when the rack is used for squatting by someone else. Which is never the case.
[quote]The Austrian Oak wrote:
mr popular wrote:
The Austrian Oak wrote:
who says you can’t go heavy while standing? some on here think that sitting is better because you can go heavier. i guess those who say that aren’t strong enough to clean the weight up. you could also load the bar into a squat rack so you don’t have to clean it. check out derek poundstone and tell me if you have better shoulders than him.
You do realize he’s practicing a competition lift, and he trains his shoulders with a slew of other more direct exercises right?
that’s not the point.
the point is that some on here posted that standing presses don’t lend themselves well to going heavy and that cleaning and lowering heavy weights will lead to some kind of shoulder injury.
[/quote]
Standing log press is a lot easier than standing barbell, and it feels soooo much more comfortable on your shoulder joint.
For instance I did standing barbell today, 70kg for 5 reps as my final set. I then moved on to log pressing and got 70kg for 4 sets of 8-6 reps.
I haven’t fucking progressed on standing barbell in the past month. Time to ditch it I think.
[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
The Austrian Oak wrote:
mr popular wrote:
The Austrian Oak wrote:
who says you can’t go heavy while standing? some on here think that sitting is better because you can go heavier. i guess those who say that aren’t strong enough to clean the weight up. you could also load the bar into a squat rack so you don’t have to clean it. check out derek poundstone and tell me if you have better shoulders than him.
You do realize he’s practicing a competition lift, and he trains his shoulders with a slew of other more direct exercises right?
that’s not the point.
the point is that some on here posted that standing presses don’t lend themselves well to going heavy and that cleaning and lowering heavy weights will lead to some kind of shoulder injury.
Standing log press is a lot easier than standing barbell, and it feels soooo much more comfortable on your shoulder joint.
For instance I did standing barbell today, 70kg for 5 reps as my final set. I then moved on to log pressing and got 70kg for 4 sets of 8-6 reps.
I haven’t fucking progressed on standing barbell in the past month. Time to ditch it I think.
[/quote]
it’s easier on the shoulders do to the neutral hand position which forces the elbows in front of the body. it is a more natural position than elbows flared out.
pressing 315lbs. overhead is not easy, whether you are using a log, bar, axle, neutral or pronated grip.
[quote]The Austrian Oak wrote:
standing presses build more overall body strength.
the only time i would do seated presses is if I was doing seated shoulder dumbbell presses as some assitance work.[/quote]
The point of shoulder presses is to build delts, not to build “overall body strength”. If you’re using your legs to assist in shoulder presses, you are doing it wrong. Seated shoulder presses helps address that issue by putting the focus where it belongs: on the shoulders.
Here’s a vid of BN doing 900lb for reps on such an exercise:
[/quote]
my gym just got that exact same machine
and for what its worth i do both standing and seated. i personally want to be able to hit 225 for reps on the overhead press.
i dont know why you guys have to ‘power clean’ it up either. i just have the bar set on the rack at the same height i squat from (low bar) so its probably at about my chest. then you just get under it and walk it out…really isnt hard.
